Energizer AA Lithium

[UFO]

Energizer states that their AA Lithium Batteries have a shelf life of up to 20 years. Does that sound accurate? Even CR-123A's only have a shelf life of up to 10 years depending on conditions and I thought that was a lot.

Anyone had any experience with shelf life issues on these?

 

[Lynx_Arc]

It's accurate, in fact you likely could use them after 25 years even. I guess the chemistry is better for longevity as it is different than what is used in CR123s

 

[3_gun]

At this point my battery stock could out live me, statistically speaking

 

[Stefano]

I have AA Energizer Lithium in stock since 2012.
Many years ago a dealer told me that even CR123s can have a much longer life than stated, this is comforting.

 

[aznsx]

At this point my battery stock could out live me, statistically speaking

. Me too, I guess. At least that's comforting!

 

[likethevegetable]

A few years back, caught them on sale for about a buck a pop (4 pack). In Canada it's hard to find these for a good price. Needless to say, I bought about 50 of them lol. Don't really use my NiMH much for my AA flashlights now and use them for household electronics (remote, home security sensors). The weight savings on a Lithium vs NiMH (and obv 18650) is nice, especially when it's mounted on your head!

 

[GaryF]

Recently I came across an old battery powered travel razor that I had misplaced. To my delight, and simultaneous horror, I found a pair of the old style L91's inside, expiration 2009. The razor ran strongly when I turned it on, and I measured a voltage of 1.62

I was tempted to run a discharge cycle on them to determine remaining charge, but not knowing how much usage they had seen, it would not have meant a lot.

Best guess is that these were manufactured in 1998 or 1999.

 

[fuyume]

Energizer states that their AA Lithium Batteries have a shelf life of up to 20 years. Does that sound accurate? Even CR-123A's only have a shelf life of up to 10 years depending on conditions and I thought that was a lot.

Anyone had any experience with shelf life issues on these?

CR123A and L91 batteries use different chemistries and cannot be directly compared.

1.5 V (L91 and L92) batteries are Lithium Iron Disulfide, while the 3 V (CR123A, etc) batteries are Lithium Manganese Dioxide.

https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/l91.pdf

https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/123.pdf

 

[3_gun]

Just started a run time test with this cell in a Fenix LD12. Stop by the thread for run times; https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/crowd-sourced-run-time-testing.477956/ to see how it does

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Recently I came across an old battery powered travel razor that I had misplaced. To my delight, and simultaneous horror, I found a pair of the old style L91's inside, expiration 2009. The razor ran strongly when I turned it on, and I measured a voltage of 1.62

I was tempted to run a discharge cycle on them to determine remaining charge, but not knowing how much usage they had seen, it would not have meant a lot.

Best guess is that these were manufactured in 1998 or 1999.

View attachment 17990

I think 1.62 V is what L91s measure with a small load on them when pretty much depleted. They measure about 1.8v no load when new. I have a small load tester and about 10 years or so ago bought 60 L91 AAs from a guy in the forum for $30 shipped. I got I think 3-4 bad ones out of the bunch 2 measured 1.6 and a few 1.72 or something in the low 1.7 range the rest were 1.8-1.83v mostly 1.81v. I have about 4 or 5 of them left extra now as I have a lot of them in low drain devices such as remotes and expensive clocks and outdoor devices/sensors and car flashlights. They are dated 2023. When they hit around 1.6v or so they will still operate low drain devices just fine but medium to high drains not very well to not at all. I have a couple of totally dead L91s I pulled out of an outdoor temperature sensor that measure 1.1 and 1.3v. The sensor quit sending. Alkalines in the sensors don't work well when it drops down too low these worked when it was down to -18F outside last winter here. When my budget allows I will likely go to Sam's club and buy an 18 pack of them in AAA as I only have 1 left and I use them in expensive factory remotes that I don't use constantly but do need to use occasionally and the convenience of leaving batteries in devices not having to worry about alkaleaks

 

[Yahiko]

Recently I came across an old battery powered travel razor that I had misplaced. To my delight, and simultaneous horror, I found a pair of the old style L91's inside, expiration 2009. The razor ran strongly when I turned it on, and I measured a voltage of 1.62

I was tempted to run a discharge cycle on them to determine remaining charge, but not knowing how much usage they had seen, it would not have meant a lot.

Best guess is that these were manufactured in 1998 or 1999.

It's always nice finding something with batteries in it that have been so well aged and not leaked all over the place.

Sorry this may be a little off topic.

On the topic of the AA Lithium Batteries. I have been using them in my insulin pump from Medtronics. They recomend
the use of Energizer cells in the pump. The older pump used one AAA and the new pump used 1 AA cell. I can use a
Lithium or an Alkaline cell. They do however say not to use the Ni–MH. I have in the case used a Ni–MH in a pinch and
found that it did ok other than it dropped below the alert for a low batterie much faster than the Alkaline. For the longest
service time Lithium cells can't be beat. Also they recommend only to use Energizer cells. In my life it seems that the cells
from Duracell at least to me seem to leak more often than Energizer. This would be a real issue with any medical device and
for anyone that is stockpiling for use in an emergency. That said I try to buy my Energizer AA Lithium Batteries when on sale
and store them for later use as I seem to use quite a few in a year. I also find myself reaiding my stock for things like remote
controls and outdoor weather sensors and have had good luck in both cases for life span and leakage.

The only two questions I really have are : What is the best storage conditions for the Lithium cells and do the Duracell when
low tend to leak more often or is that just bad luck on my part?

Thanks for putting up with my rambling.

 

[3_gun]

The L91 popped thru 6hrs in the LD12 with no dimming on High(70L) while still having turbo. 6. 1/2hrs turbo is lost but still no noticeable dimming. Dimming noticed at 7 1/4hrs with the step down to Med(30L) happening at 8hrs 10 minutes & 0.86V.

Man what a difference a battery makes. Of course we've known that how well our lights work are dependent on the quality of the battery but how often is that tested?

 

[bubbatime]

I think the 20 year life span is rather new. I seem to remember the last pack of Lithium AA batteries I bought a few years ago only having a ten year shelf life.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

It's always nice finding something with batteries in it that have been so well aged and not leaked all over the place.

Sorry this may be a little off topic.

On the topic of the AA Lithium Batteries. I have been using them in my insulin pump from Medtronics. They recomend
the use of Energizer cells in the pump. The older pump used one AAA and the new pump used 1 AA cell. I can use a
Lithium or an Alkaline cell. They do however say not to use the Ni–MH. I have in the case used a Ni–MH in a pinch and
found that it did ok other than it dropped below the alert for a low batterie much faster than the Alkaline. For the longest
service time Lithium cells can't be beat. Also they recommend only to use Energizer cells. In my life it seems that the cells
from Duracell at least to me seem to leak more often than Energizer. This would be a real issue with any medical device and
for anyone that is stockpiling for use in an emergency. That said I try to buy my Energizer AA Lithium Batteries when on sale
and store them for later use as I seem to use quite a few in a year. I also find myself reaiding my stock for things like remote
controls and outdoor weather sensors and have had good luck in both cases for life span and leakage.

The only two questions I really have are : What is the best storage conditions for the Lithium cells and do the Duracell when
low tend to leak more often or is that just bad luck on my part?

Thanks for putting up with my rambling.

I've found that sometimes low battery warning can stay on a long time using nimh cells till they do die, it depends on how low the voltage can go on the input of the device and the current load. Higher current loads will drop voltage more on alkaleaks vs lithium for sure. It is best to store lithium cells at room temperature around 70 degrees. Duraleaks will likely leak more when they are fully drained but there is no guarantee that they won't drain a week brand new out of the package with little use to them. In other words use alkaleaks at your own risk. I would try the nimh cells and see how much runtime you get before the device quits on you keeping a lithium battery on hand for a backup. It is likely the nimh cell will get about 2/3 or less the runtime of lithium or alkaleaks and they would save you money for sure plus nimh rarely ever leak and even if so damage is pretty minimal compared to alkaspews.

 

[raggie33]

ill be 27 in 20 years lol or 70

 

[Lawman VII XIV]

It's accurate, in fact you likely could use them after 25 years even. I guess the chemistry is better for longevity as it is different than what is used in CR123s

Li batteries have an extremely long shelf life but that's not the same as their useful life, with is no where near 25yrs. Individual in-use battery life will vary with the capacity to some degree. When Li AA cells first dropped, they were touted as having a 10yr shelf life. It's not easy to test that, and much harder to test a 20yr claim.

They recomend
the use of Energizer cells in the pump. The older pump used one AAA and the new pump used 1 AA cell. I can use a
Lithium or an Alkaline cell. They do however say not to use the Ni–MH. I have in the case used a Ni–MH in a pinch and
found that it did ok other than it dropped below the alert for a low batterie much faster than the Alkaline. For the longest
service time Lithium cells can't be beat. Also they recommend only to use Energizer cells. In my life it seems that the cells
from Duracell at least to me seem to leak more often than Energizer. This would be a real issue with any medical device and
for anyone that is stockpiling for use in an emergency. That said I try to buy my Energizer AA Lithium Batteries when on sale
and store them for later use as I seem to use quite a few in a year. I also find myself reaiding my stock for things like remote
controls and outdoor weather sensors and have had good luck in both cases for life span and leakage.

The only two questions I really have are : What is the best storage conditions for the Lithium cells and do the Duracell when
low tend to leak more often or is that just bad luck on my part?

Medtronics recommends lithium or alkaline batteries because your pump i designed to operate on 1.5V, not the 1.2V of NiMH batteries like eneloops, etc. You've found they'll work in a pinch, but I'd file those under last resort use.

Duracell batteries are crap. That's why Costco sells them by the pallet full. I used them years and years ago, and they always leaked as the voltage got low. Woe and behold the poor soul who's unused device sits in a drawer or on a shelf when the Durecells get low.

Not too many years ago, Duracell was sold or got a new CEO, and the quality went down considerable. As you might guess, they leak sooner and often.

I will not use a Duracell battery except as a last resort, and would replace them immediately with Everyready batteries. A lifetime of experience has left me with one carbon-zinc battery leak. One. That's it. If you don't use rechargeables (shame on those who can but don't) and monitor batteries closely, you maybe-probably won't get burned by Duracells. Maybe. Rechargeable Li batteries are the way to go if your device will use them.

 

[fuyume]

When it comes to alkalines, I don't buy Energizer or Duracell anymore just because of the price premium, when I can get perfectly serviceable store brand or Rayovac alkalines for a substantial discount. Critical equipment gets Energizer lithiums.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Li batteries have an extremely long shelf life but that's not the same as their useful life, with is no where near 25yrs. Individual in-use battery life will vary with the capacity to some degree. When Li AA cells first dropped, they were touted as having a 10yr shelf life. It's not easy to test that, and much harder to test a 20yr claim.



Medtronics recommends lithium or alkaline batteries because your pump i designed to operate on 1.5V, not the 1.2V of NiMH batteries like eneloops, etc. You've found they'll work in a pinch, but I'd file those under last resort use.

Actually under a light load nimh don't drop to 1.2v till about a lot of the battery life is used up. Off the charger they measure 1.4V or a little more and settle down in the 1.33v or so range while under a medium load alkaleaks can drop down below 1.4v in use and heavy loads they can drop even below nimh batteries rather quickly. The problem occurs when a device is designed such that the electronics need over 5V to operate properly and it used to be a lot of electronics used components that needed 5V while newer designed devices can operate at lower voltages properly.


I think often what is considered shelf life on batteries that don't leak is what percentage of capacity is left at that time. As time progresses likely even after 20 years a lithium primary has more than 50% of the battery life in it for them to rate it that long which may not be totally optimal but still useful in a pinch.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

It's always nice finding something with batteries in it that have been so well aged and not leaked all over the place.

Sorry this may be a little off topic.

On the topic of the AA Lithium Batteries. I have been using them in my insulin pump from Medtronics. They recomend
the use of Energizer cells in the pump. The older pump used one AAA and the new pump used 1 AA cell. I can use a
Lithium or an Alkaline cell. They do however say not to use the Ni–MH. I have in the case used a Ni–MH in a pinch and
found that it did ok other than it dropped below the alert for a low batterie much faster than the Alkaline. For the longest
service time Lithium cells can't be beat. Also they recommend only to use Energizer cells. In my life it seems that the cells
from Duracell at least to me seem to leak more often than Energizer. This would be a real issue with any medical device and
for anyone that is stockpiling for use in an emergency. That said I try to buy my Energizer AA Lithium Batteries when on sale
and store them for later use as I seem to use quite a few in a year. I also find myself reaiding my stock for things like remote
controls and outdoor weather sensors and have had good luck in both cases for life span and leakage.

The only two questions I really have are : What is the best storage conditions for the Lithium cells and do the Duracell when
low tend to leak more often or is that just bad luck on my part?

Thanks for putting up with my rambling.

Low battery alerts often need to be ignored when using nimh cells because they can operate quite a long time below that level of voltage when alkaleaks are nearly dead. I have some digital thermometers that show low battery and run for months before conking out on me. As long as you have spare batteries and know when it is dead and then swap a fresh battery in you may be just fine using nimh in the. The main reason some devices don't recommend using nimh is most people aren't smart enough to know about the difference and will complain to them when the low battery warning goes off and they have hardly used much of the battery in it. People get used to the performance of alkaleaks in devices and think something is wrong when a nimh cell doesn't perform exactly the same. You may not get the same runtime from nimh but trading more runtime per battery for not having to buy bricks of alkaleaks the money savings for many people may greatly offset the difference in performance once you figure out things when using them.

 

[DaveTheDude]

I'm going to swim against the tide here, to report what appears to be a significant quality control failure with Energizer AA Ultimate Lithium primary cells.

In 2020 I purchased eight 20xAA blister packs of Energizer Ultimate Lithium cells from Costco. All of the blister packs state they were made in Singapore, and the manufacture date imprinted on the individual cells is 2019. In January 2023 I opened the first pack, and found that only ten of the 20 cells have a full charge; the charge on the other ten is between 0% and 40%. I judge this to be a 50% failure rate. I wrote to Energizer about this earlier today. While I await the company's reply, does anyone have any insight that might be useful to share with the community? Before replying, please note that the cells have been in 70 degree F. climate controlled storage the entire time.

Also, given the high failure rate on these otherwise premium primary cells, I tested two other 4-packs of AA Energizer Lithium cells. The cells with expiration date 2028 all show 40% charge or less; the cells with expiration date 2036 all show 60% charge or less. It therefore appears to me that either 1) there is a significant quality control issue within the plants that manufacture these cells, or 2) I misunderstand what Energizer is claiming for their cells, or 3) Energizer is shamefully misleading the public. I'll reserve judgement until I hear back from Energizer on my complaint, but it might be useful to aggregate others' experience on this topic.

Energizer's published claim is that it's Lithium primary cells have a 20 year shelf life. I would consider the claim to be materially misleading if the company replies that this claim means only that some level of charge (however miniscule) will remain at the end of 20 years.

Thoughts?