Energy : Production, Storage, Efficiency, Solutions

[bykfixer]

If they find something that can take the heat then they’ll figure out the rest.

Not sure the outcome down the road but not long ago a space probe flew closer to the sun than ever before. The outter insulation kept the data collecting computers nice and cool.

So like zip lock bags and zip ties, the insulation they used may be part of our daily lives someday.

Edit: It just dawned on me back around 05 I used to chat online with a bunch of old skateboarders at a forum. Most of the members were youngsters. This one guy showed a photo of a go kart on skateboard wheels riding a wheelie. It seems his high school shop teacher had used a Honda Civic starter motor to power the thing using a car battery to power the thing. The class had a project to power a vehicle using car starter motors.

 

[kerneldrop]

Not sure the outcome down the road but not long ago a space probe flew closer to the sun than ever before. The outter insulation kept the data collecting computers nice and cool.

So like zip lock bags and zip ties, the insulation they used may be part of our daily lives someday.

Exactly.
The possible always starts out as impossible.

 

[idleprocess]

The class had a project to power a vehicle using car starter motors.

Some 35 years ago my dad had an unusual daily driver - a 1949 Chevrolet Suburban Carryall. It was occasionally temperamental to start. One day my mother attempted to drive it for reasons lost to me and it simply would not start. She left in frustration so I decided to give it a go - likely without permission. At some point in the process I neglected to depress the clutch and engaged the starter with the vehicle in gear and was a bit surprised when it obligingly rolled forward by a few feet.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

For those who seek power and the means to store it, consider this firm in Pennsylvania:

Genuine Lithium Batteries for DIY Projects

Battery Hookup

batteryhookup.com

I have not yet ordered from them, but ebike(dot)ca suggests them for DIY potential regarding electric bikes, though electric vehicles and home power banks are definitely catered there. Limited selection of solar panels also. Buying used batteries can be a great way to electrical independence. Lithium Ferrous Phosphate batteries are very long lived as well as a relatively safe chemistry. They also sell new batteries (including 18650's but in larger quantities). Check it out, you may start to yearn for enhanced capabilities.

 

[turbodog]

For those who seek power and the means to store it, consider this firm in Pennsylvania:

Genuine Lithium Batteries for DIY Projects

Battery Hookup

batteryhookup.com

I have not yet ordered from them, but ebike(dot)ca suggests them for DIY potential regarding electric bikes, though electric vehicles and home power banks are definitely catered there. Limited selection of solar panels also. Buying used batteries can be a great way to electrical independence. Lithium Ferrous Phosphate batteries are very long lived as well as a relatively safe chemistry. They also sell new batteries (including 18650's but in larger quantities). Check it out, you may start to yearn for enhanced capabilities.

 

[jtr1962]

For those who seek power and the means to store it, consider this firm in Pennsylvania:

Genuine Lithium Batteries for DIY Projects

Battery Hookup

batteryhookup.com

I have not yet ordered from them, but ebike(dot)ca suggests them for DIY potential regarding electric bikes, though electric vehicles and home power banks are definitely catered there. Limited selection of solar panels also. Buying used batteries can be a great way to electrical independence. Lithium Ferrous Phosphate batteries are very long lived as well as a relatively safe chemistry. They also sell new batteries (including 18650's but in larger quantities). Check it out, you may start to yearn for enhanced capabilities.

I've ordered from them several times. This place is also another good source:

Battery Clearing House

LiFePO4 is my preferred chemistry for most of what I order.

 

[orbital]

For those who seek power and the means to store it, consider this firm in Pennsylvania:

Genuine Lithium Batteries for DIY Projects

Battery Hookup

batteryhookup.com

I have not yet ordered from them, but ebike(dot)ca suggests them for DIY potential regarding electric bikes, though electric vehicles and home power banks are definitely catered there. Limited selection of solar panels also. Buying used batteries can be a great way to electrical independence. Lithium Ferrous Phosphate batteries are very long lived as well as a relatively safe chemistry. They also sell new batteries (including 18650's but in larger quantities). Check it out, you may start to yearn for enhanced capabilities.

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It's $2.13 per NEW Samsung 18650 shipped, if buying the 100 box.
3150mAh

'Group Buy' written all over that!!

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

If you're going to build a battery pack for an off grid system, these are the batteries you're going to want to use:https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/lifepo4-prismatic-cells/products/eve-lf280k

 

[KITROBASKIN]

H2 storage for long haul transport?

Mechanochemical breakthrough unlocks cheap, safe, powdered hydrogen

Australian scientists say they've made a "eureka moment" breakthrough in gas separation and storage that could radically reduce energy use in the petrochemical industry, while making hydrogen much easier and safer to store and transport in a powder.

newatlas.com

 

[idleprocess]

H2 storage for long haul transport?

There have been so many miracle 'solid' hydrogen schemes announced for decades now that I'm extremely skeptical of all such claims.

The primary problem is that of density. Hydrogen is the lightest element, thus anything you bind it to will outmass it - generally by at least an order of magnitude. Thus the net hydrogen content ends up being a tiny fraction of the solid containment medium and whatever convenience you gain by not having to deal with compressed hydrogen at 5000 - 10,000 PSI (350 - 700 bar) you lose its hydrocarbon-like energy density. And much to my surprise they actually mention the mass fraction:

How does it fare in terms of density by volume and weight? Chen tells us the powder can store a hydrogen weight percentage of around 6.5%. "Every one gram of material will store about 0.065 grams of hydrogen," he says.

So storing hydrogen - with 33.33kWh of thermal energy per kg - in this format means your actual density gets cut down to 2.16kWH/kg. And that's before getting into the yield after separating it from the storage medium (it takes nontrivial heat to free the hydrogen from the powder). Compressed hydrogen does better and I note that they're comparing the 5000 PSI / 350 bar standard that was common in vehicular demonstrators ~20 years ago vs the 10,000 PSI / 700 bar standard that's in place today (i.e. on vehicles you can buy/lease such as the Honda Clarity, Hyundai Nexo). Also unknown is how rapidly the hydrogen can be extracted from the medium - something that compressed hydrogen doesn't have an issue with.

The article makes a lot of reference to cryogenic processes which as best I can tell aren't being used outside of space exploration and some early experiments in the aviation sector. Cryogenic hydrogen is a problem a as fuel because it's not storable - in order to benefit from the lighter tanks than compressed hydrogen demands it must either be refrigerated (or superinsulated) to prevent it from heating up and boiling, consumed/offloaded before it heats up, or vented as it heats up - the latter two being troublesome for vehicles that are parked for any length of time. Otherwise, I gather the petroleum sector makes hydrogen via steam reformation of hydrocarbons - a process that refineries can perform with existing plant equipment - rather than the baffling "cryogenic distillation process" they take pains to compare their invention to on the production side.

 

[orbital]

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Hydrogen/hybrid/Dakar/truck

It finished the Dakar rally this Jan. {4,000 km (2,500 mi) of special stages and 3,000 km (1,900 mi) of liaisons}

 

[turbodog]

H2 storage for long haul transport?

..

Let's go big or go home. Split water into H and O. Compress both to 10kpsi. Drive around at 80 mph. No smoking allowed in the car...

 

[turbodog]

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Hydrogen/hybrid/Dakar/truck

It finished the Dakar rally this Jan. {4,000 km (2,500 mi) of special stages and 3,000 km (1,900 mi) of liaisons}

Always liked those trucks. They are a great example of what you can do with good engineers, unlimited money, and testosterone.

The 'e' version looks great but won't fit in my garage.

 

[idleprocess]

Let's go big or go home. Split water into H and O. Compress both to 10kpsi. Drive around at 80 mph. No smoking allowed in the car...

Compressed hydrogen is the market solution for hydrogen-powered automobiles - and the occasional bus or locomotive. It's energy-intensive to the tune of something like ~1.5kWH/kg to compress it to the ~880 bar it takes to load a tank to 700 bar (10k psi). While "bomb" is a synonym for any pressure vessel, tank safety isn't really all that much of a concern. It's just all the other staggering costs (significant bespoke infrastructure to produce rather than refine hydrogen from feedstocks, difficult handling vs liquid fuels, abysmal low-temperature PEM fuel cell performance relative to batteries, the expense of said PEM fuel cells + low life expectancies) along the way that have proven to be serious stumbling blocks on the path towards the hydrogen economy of so much bad science fiction.

 

[orbital]

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Important numbers on Tax credits & information for the Passed Inflation Reduction Act

Consumers may qualify for up to $10,000 — or more — in climate tax breaks and rebates in the Inflation Reduction Act

The Inflation Reduction Act offers financial incentives in the form of consumer rebates and tax credits to help the U.S. reduce its greenhouse gas emissions.

www.cnbc.com

 

[jtr1962]

What bothers me is they're keeping the incentives as non-refundable tax credits, meaning if you have no income tax liability, they're worthless. Those on the lower end of the income scale are the ones who would benefit most from incentives, but they would need to be refundable tax credits. Unless of course the installers can just claim the credits, and take it off the sales price.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Using suspended nanoparticles as a carrier for anode/cathode(?) in fluids the consistency of motor oil, this system offers '5 minute' refueling of the two liquids. The video suggests legacy liquid fuel infrastructure could be utilized to supply the paired fluids for this flow battery. Spent liquid can be recharged/recycled(?). Questions about fluid cycle life and ion exchange membrane maintenance. Said to be more energy dense than lithium technologies and less expensive. DARPA and Air Force are participating in this endeavor.

Once again, asking members to weigh in on this:

Influit moves to commercialize its ultra-high density liquid batteries

Illinois Tech spinoff Influit Energy says it's coming out of stealth mode to commercialize a rechargeable electrofuel – a non-flammable, fast-refuelling liquid flow battery that already carries 23% more energy than lithium batteries, at half the cost.

newatlas.com

 

[jtr1962]

Assuming any technical problems are ironed out, this looks extremely promising. It ticks all the boxes:

1) 5 minute recharge via fluid exchange, not much more cumbersome battery swapping
2) Ability to recharge at slower rates without swapping the fluid. This is a biggie for me because without it you would be tied to service stations for recharging. As we all know, they take you to the cleaners.
3) High energy density. An 85 kW-hr battery at the low end of the estimated energy density would only weigh about 155 kg (340 lbs), or the same weight as a very fat person. On the higher end you're talking only 110 kg or so. Considering the rest of the drivetrain of an EV is lighter than the engine/transmission of an ICE, this means EVs will weigh the same or less as equivalent ICEs.
4) Potential to electrify commercial aviation. Surprisingly, the economics for short haul electrified aviation already pan out. This would make longer haul flights viable.
5) Ability to cater to the ~⅓ of Americans without potential access to home charging, mostly apartment dwellers.
6) Lower cost. The battery is the single most expensive part of an EV. Get the price down enough, EVs could end up costing less than an equivalent ICE.

I just hope this isn't like lots of other promising battery tech that never saw the light of day.

 

[turbodog]

...

1) 5 minute recharge via fluid exchange, not much more cumbersome battery swapping
...

I would figure this is fairly highly basic or acidic and probably high temp from being in use. Should see some interesting failures, both while fueling and in crashes. Excuse me while I apply for a law license, specialty in product liability.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Just wanted to follow up on batteryhookup.com:
I had some issues, they responded quickly and professionally. They are an excellent battery company to do business with.