Energy : Production, Storage, Efficiency, Solutions

Dave D

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Mar 30, 2013
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Andalusia, España
I didn't realise how much of a price difference there is between Europe and the USA in cost of a solar installation!!

I just watched 'Undecided with Matt Ferrell' on Youtube about his five years experience with his solar installation.

In 2018 he had 9.49kw of solar panels, with inverters etc, installed at a cost of $29,609, he received a 30% Federal Tax Incentive of $8,883 which brought his cost down to $20,726.

In 2021 I had 5.94kw of solar panels, the inverter and a 16.7kwh LifePo battery installed, here in Europe for a cost of $18,000.

The system Matt had installed did not include a battery at that time, he added a Tesla Power Wall later, my battery was about $11,000 so about $7,000 for the rest, which if I'd increased it to 9.49kw would have cost in the region of $11,000, my costs didn't include any financial incentives from the Government.

5 Years with Solar Panels - Is It Still Worth It?
 

orbital

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... I am wanting to have more usable capacity, even if it is only a few percentage more.
+

Check these new units out, really small 100Ah (Ampertime is now Litime)
 

orbital

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Figured I'd put this here ::

1300 DC Fast charger is a solid number,
now maybe put 30 large solar panels on your roof Walmart to power these chargers.. DC~DC


 

knucklegary

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Feb 11, 2017
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NorCal, Central Coast
I don't own or drive EV.. but enjoy parking lot sunshade during heat of Summer months.
This is our local store in Placerville, CA
Screenshot_20230408-095500.png

From time of ground breaking to finish this solar panel system was completed in just a few weeks. I wouldn't want panels on my roof, but I would consider a carport similar to these installed.
 

turbodog

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Jun 23, 2003
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central time
+

Figured I'd put this here ::

1300 DC Fast charger is a solid number,
now maybe put 30 large solar panels on your roof Walmart to power these chargers.. DC~DC



7 years from now...

1681009707573.png


Considering how much work is out there for underground bore rigs, electricians, charger manufacturers, electrical companies (upgrading feeds, swapping transformers, etc) permitting, etc... I'd say 1) that sounds about right and 2) years too late.
 

orbital

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From knucklegary: From time of ground breaking to finish this solar panel system was completed in just a few weeks.
Walmart can have anything fast tracked, they just snap their fingers.
I look at other corporations, not even having any plans for this,, that's years too late/

The concept of these solar carports could be a very successful business for commercial & residential installs, for many years to come.
For those in high school students wondering what they could go into & then service down the road dot dot dot
 

idleprocess

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decamped
Locally, the trend for retail seems to be to install public L2 chargers convenient to existing infrastructure. The two party tricks I've seen are piggybacking off of parking lot light standards or installing the chargers adjacent to utility infeed points. The light standard trick has the simplest installation process - generally no concrete cutting with the main complication being the retrofit of a control relay for the light(s) that would otherwise be physically powered off during the day - however these tend to be the lowest-power stations out there at 6kW. The latter format are more involved and generally subprime parking locations but minimize run distances and can potentially provide power up to the 19.2kW limit for L2 chargers if one is so inclined and provide substantial range recovery in the 30-60 minutes that one it apt to spend at a shopping center.

The concept of these solar carports could be a very successful business for commercial & residential installs, for many years to come.
For those in high school students wondering what they could go into & then service down the road dot dot dot
Electrification in general is a trend that's building momentum. There's a lot of opportunity out there - solar installations, BEV charging stations, heat pumps displacing gas furnaces/water heaters, electrical panel upgrades/reworks, implementing load management solutions for residential and business premises, energy storage installations - that suggests there will be a broad expansion of electrical work for decades to come.
 

orbital

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Maybe I'v been under a rock, but I didn't know E-Fuel was even a thing.
Factoring in all the steps, can't even imagine the cost per gallon just to produce.
,, then transport, taxesssss, retail markup, several other things.
 

idleprocess

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Getting electricity from rainfall?

Not a lot of details on production potential nor cost, save for...
"The peak power output of the bridge array generators is nearly 5 times higher than that of the conventional large-area raindrop energy with the same size, reaching 200 watts per square meter," Li explained, "which fully shows its advantages in large-area raindrop energy harvesting."
The conditions under which they can generate this power are not specified. Actual paper looks to be here.

One wonders if this technology could be more profitably applied to more energetic greater volumes of falling water such as on a dam spillway or within storm sewers where the cost of controlling the flow is erosion of the channel or other engineered features.
 

orbital

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I don't own or drive EV.. but enjoy parking lot sunshade during heat of Summer months.
This is our local store in Placerville, CA
View attachment 42452
From time of ground breaking to finish this solar panel system was completed in just a few weeks. I wouldn't want panels on my roof, but I would consider a carport similar to these installed.
+

Yesterday I took a different way into Plymouth, my closest city.
One the land of a Health Care provider building, there was a big professional solar installation. Really good spot if you think about it.
On my way back I slowed to get a count of the number of panels,, started counting 2,4,6,8, ..... got dizzy trying to get half way down the row.
There had to be 120~130 (approx.three hundred Watt panels) IN FOUR ROWS!!!!

figure 500 panels @ at least 300W each~ really something to see

The reason I quoted knucklegary, it's only maybe 200 yards from Walmart.
Maybe they worked out a deal for the installation location.
 

orbital

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Can't imagine the math's correct on this article.
Full square mile of solar panels, to charge only 500 EVs'?

If it's correct, imagine an extra 150,000 EVs' in Cal. in the next ten years.
Bit of an issue

 

jtr1962

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Nov 22, 2003
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Flushing, NY
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Can't imagine the math's correct on this article.
Full square mile of solar panels, to charge only 500 EVs'?

If it's correct, imagine an extra 150,000 EVs' in Cal. in the next ten years.
Bit of an issue

You need to parse the numbers a bit. The installation only has enough capacity to charge 500 EVs at once at the very high charge rate of 150 kW. Note that this is sufficient to recharge most EVs in under 30 minutes. Obviously the sun isn't shining at full brightness 24/7, so in the course of a day you can't maintain that charge rate. In any case however you can recharge way more than 500 EVs in the course of a day.

The number to use here which is most useful is the annual generating capacity of 225 GWh. Let's assume a typical EV battery might need 75 kWh accounting for charging inefficiencies. In the course of a year then this installation can do ~3 million EV recharges. Now let's assume a range of 300 miles for these EVs, and that they're driven 15K miles annually. So that implies 50 recharges annually. Note that it doesn't matter much whether the user runs down the battery and does a full recharge, or just tops it off regularly. In the end you'll use the same amount of energy if the number of miles driven is constant. So anyway, 3 million divided by 50 equals 60,000 EVs this one installation alone can service.

We can even parse out roughly how much square footage in solar panels it takes to service one EV: 5280²/60,000 = 465 square feet.
Bottom line-we can easily add enough solar to service every potential EV in CA. 20 million EVs would require about 350 square miles in panels, less than the area of NYC.
 

orbital

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For fast charge; 5 cars for 2000 panels,, that's alot of panels.
Just shows you how in cities they'll need to generate electricity from other means for sure.
Personally, I don't think 350 square miles of solar panels will happen.

Always have to look at options.

add ^
 
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LEDphile

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There's easily 100 square miles of area for solar panels in interstate highway medians (assuming a 20' wide strip down the center of 55% of the Interstate highways in the US - you could probably double that depending on how much clear area you need). And don't forget parking lots - that area is prime for adding solar canopies, with the added benefit of covered parking. When you consider that a typical suburban parking space is close to 200 square feet, all of a sudden the 465 square feet per EV for solar charging doesn't look unreasonable.

Now, the economics and logistics of installing such a system are a whole different question. But from a technical perspective, it sure looks feasible.
 

jtr1962

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There's easily 100 square miles of area for solar panels in interstate highway medians (assuming a 20' wide strip down the center of 55% of the Interstate highways in the US - you could probably double that depending on how much clear area you need). And don't forget parking lots - that area is prime for adding solar canopies, with the added benefit of covered parking. When you consider that a typical suburban parking space is close to 200 square feet, all of a sudden the 465 square feet per EV for solar charging doesn't look unreasonable.

Now, the economics and logistics of installing such a system are a whole different question. But from a technical perspective, it sure looks feasible.
Another great idea is putting panels over the aqueducts.

"Scientists in California just ran the numbers on what would happen if their state slapped solar panels on 4,000 miles of its canals, including the major California Aqueduct, and the results point to a potentially beautiful partnership. Their feasibility study, published in the journal Nature Sustainability, finds that if applied statewide, the panels would save 63 billion gallons of water from evaporating each year. At the same time, solar panels across California's exposed canals would provide 13 gigawatts of renewable power annually, about half of the new capacity the state needs to meet its decarbonization goals by the year 2030."

Parking lots are perfect for solar panels. They provide shade, protection from the elements, plus they generate power right where it's used (either in the buildings, or for EV charging stations in the lot). No need for long transmission lines like the remote installations in the desert.
 

jtr1962

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We were talking about heat pumps in the lithium thread. I saw this today:

Heat pump technology will soon be so hot that even Britons are tempted

Helium pumps promise much higher temperatures while retaining the same magical conversion of one unit of electricity into three to four units of heat achieved by standard models today – its "Coefficient of Performance" (CoP).

....

The French group Equium says it can produce 80-degree hot water without loss of CoP efficiency using helium enclosed at a pressure of 30 bars. It remains a gas for a very wide range of temperature, giving the heat pump more energy leverage.
 

aznsx

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Apr 24, 2015
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Phoenix, AZ USA
Apparently SRP (the outfit that supplies my power here) is in cahoots with a German outfit to build another storage facility. Obviously given all the sun on tap here in the 'Valley of the Sun', with more storage we should be able to better manage peak load / demand requirements better. I've posted about these here before, but this one caught my attention due to the fact that this apparently uses some 'different' batt tech (not lithium based [but proprietary]), which may be of particular interest to those who have an interest in batt tech alternatives, as it's apparently ready for 'prime time' trialing(?).

Here's the info I saw while streaming a local station news site today:


This is the company SRP is partnering with for the project:


Here's their writeup about the project:

 
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