Darell
Flashaholic
Jay -
I think we'd have a smoother ride if the partisan part of your post was toned down or removed. Thanks.
I think we'd have a smoother ride if the partisan part of your post was toned down or removed. Thanks.
Environmentalists in your area
- Thread starter NewBie
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jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
This thread began in a rather inflammatory manner. The destructive acts in Oregon and Washington happened years back. Why bring it up now? What good could come from posting this in the first place? Well...who started this?
Am I mistaken about the information that I listed? If so, please correct me because I'd rather know the truth, even if that means I was wrong.
I'm only guilty of responding to the question of: "what do self-described EV's do besides bash Republicans?" Democrats who've supported ridiculous legislation have received my ire also. I'm more Independent than partisan and like to think that a spade deserves to be called one.
Instead of fretting about where this thread may go, why not contribute with something beneficial? Thank you.
Am I mistaken about the information that I listed? If so, please correct me because I'd rather know the truth, even if that means I was wrong.
I'm only guilty of responding to the question of: "what do self-described EV's do besides bash Republicans?" Democrats who've supported ridiculous legislation have received my ire also. I'm more Independent than partisan and like to think that a spade deserves to be called one.
Instead of fretting about where this thread may go, why not contribute with something beneficial? Thank you.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
It's hard to imagine this thread not involving some bickering due to what started it.
Regrettably, any serious debate about environmental policy will involve politics and points of dogma rather than serious debate of the issue based on merit. Both extremes despise the other and aren't willing to compromise one millimeter.
There are plenty on the political right that are peeved at the traditional Republican environmental stance (as I once heard a hunting group state - "What's the point in defending the 2nd amendment to all ends if there's nothing left in the wild to hunt?").
Regrettably, any serious debate about environmental policy will involve politics and points of dogma rather than serious debate of the issue based on merit. Both extremes despise the other and aren't willing to compromise one millimeter.
There are plenty on the political right that are peeved at the traditional Republican environmental stance (as I once heard a hunting group state - "What's the point in defending the 2nd amendment to all ends if there's nothing left in the wild to hunt?").
Darell
Flashaholic
Jay - You have a PM.
Let me point out that
[ QUOTE ]
jayflash said:
"what do self-described EV's do besides bash Republicans?"
[/ QUOTE ]
Was never asked.
Here is what was written:
[ QUOTE ]
I have talked to a few self described enviromentalist and all they wanted to do was bash Republicans.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is not the same thing. As far as I can tell, I'm the one who answered the question that was actually asked in that post. I'm sorry if it wasn't enough of a contribution for you.
Let me point out that
[ QUOTE ]
jayflash said:
"what do self-described EV's do besides bash Republicans?"
[/ QUOTE ]
Was never asked.
Here is what was written:
[ QUOTE ]
I have talked to a few self described enviromentalist and all they wanted to do was bash Republicans.
[/ QUOTE ]
That is not the same thing. As far as I can tell, I'm the one who answered the question that was actually asked in that post. I'm sorry if it wasn't enough of a contribution for you.
jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm sorry, I guess I've become over-sensitized to environmental politics, lately. For the last few years it seems that any degree of EV support is too much and, almost, un American.
If I was reading between the lines, something that did not exist, I apologize for that, too. I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt. Sorry for my brusque response.
Jay
If I was reading between the lines, something that did not exist, I apologize for that, too. I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt. Sorry for my brusque response.
Jay
LifeNRA
Flashaholic*
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2004
- Messages
- 1,453
jayflash,
I meant nothing political in my statement. I only wanted to know what environmentalists stood for without the political bashing. When we get outside the politics it seems that everyone has more in common that it first appears. Really when you thnk about it how many politicians really care what we think? I do not see either party really helping with the environment. I do see a lot of promises and pandering by both sides but very little action.
I meant nothing political in my statement. I only wanted to know what environmentalists stood for without the political bashing. When we get outside the politics it seems that everyone has more in common that it first appears. Really when you thnk about it how many politicians really care what we think? I do not see either party really helping with the environment. I do see a lot of promises and pandering by both sides but very little action.
NewBie
*Retired*
Jayflash, the environmentalists are still active.
Personally, I think there is a call for environmental responsibility, but not what the environmentalists push for out here in Oregon. When they destroy family history, family farms, industries, towns, and destroy the wildlife through poorly though out actions by acting without real scientific evidence, etc. I have a hard time with their whole concept.
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/news/2004/020904.shtml
The ELF and ALF firebombed two McDonalds restraunts in Chico, CA in 2003.
RICHMOND-Decrying environmental sabotage as extremely troubling and arrogant, a federal judge Monday sentenced a member of the radical Earth Liberation Front to 42 months in prison for a 2002 vandalism spree in greater Richmond that damaged new homes, SUVs, construction equipment and fast-food restaurants.
A fire at one dealership destroyed or damaged 72 vehicles, mostly SUVs, and a parts warehouse. Prosecutors estimated the total damage at $2.3 million.
The Earth Liberation Front has claimed responsibility for a string of arsons in Detroit, Philadelphia and San Diego, where a fire last year destroyed a 206-unit apartment complex under construction, doing $50 million worth of damage.
September 23, 2003 - The Earth Liberation Front Press Office has received a communique from the Earth Liberation Front claiming they left incendiary devices at a pumping station supplying a water bottling plant owned by Nestle Waters North America (formerly known as the Perrier Group of America) in Mecosta County, Michigan. According to news reports, these incendiaries failed to ignite and were removed from the station without incident.
Sept 19, 2003 - Through media reports, the ELF Press Office has been made aware of an Earth Liberation Front action against urban sprawl in the early morning hours of September 19, 2003. Although the ELF Press Office has received no communications about this actions from the persons responsible, a banner found at the site of the fires reading "Development destruction. Stop raping nature. The ELFs are angry," indicates a claim of responsibility by ELF activists.
Sept 16, 2003 - On September 12th Josh Connole, a known environmentalist and peace activist, was arrested by the FBI. Josh was accused by the FBI of involvement with the ELF-claimed fire and vandalism of SUV dealerships in West Covina, California on August 22nd, which resulted in over a million dollars in damages. On September 15th, Connole was released without charges due to a lack of evidence to make the case against him.
August 30, 2003 - In the largest act of environmental sabotage in US history, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) has accepted responsibility for a $50 million fire in San Diego, California, that destroyed an unfinished five-story condominium complex on August 1. The complex is owned by Garden Communities, the second largest developer in Southern California. Nationwide, Garden Communities owns more than 40,000 apartments and 25 million square feet of commercial space.
July 02,2003 - The Earth Liberation Front Press Office has received an anonymous communique from the Earth Liberation Front claiming responsibility for two fires that took place on the night of June 4th, 2003 in Macomb County, Michigan. The anti-sprawl action targeted two homes nearing completion in the Willow Ridge development and resulted in $700,000 in damages. Graffiti left at the site read "ELF - Stop Sprawl", indicating that the action was in fact taken by the ELF.
Since 1997, the ELF in North America has caused over $100 million in damages to entities.
Personally, I think there is a call for environmental responsibility, but not what the environmentalists push for out here in Oregon. When they destroy family history, family farms, industries, towns, and destroy the wildlife through poorly though out actions by acting without real scientific evidence, etc. I have a hard time with their whole concept.
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/news/2004/020904.shtml
The ELF and ALF firebombed two McDonalds restraunts in Chico, CA in 2003.
RICHMOND-Decrying environmental sabotage as extremely troubling and arrogant, a federal judge Monday sentenced a member of the radical Earth Liberation Front to 42 months in prison for a 2002 vandalism spree in greater Richmond that damaged new homes, SUVs, construction equipment and fast-food restaurants.
A fire at one dealership destroyed or damaged 72 vehicles, mostly SUVs, and a parts warehouse. Prosecutors estimated the total damage at $2.3 million.
The Earth Liberation Front has claimed responsibility for a string of arsons in Detroit, Philadelphia and San Diego, where a fire last year destroyed a 206-unit apartment complex under construction, doing $50 million worth of damage.
September 23, 2003 - The Earth Liberation Front Press Office has received a communique from the Earth Liberation Front claiming they left incendiary devices at a pumping station supplying a water bottling plant owned by Nestle Waters North America (formerly known as the Perrier Group of America) in Mecosta County, Michigan. According to news reports, these incendiaries failed to ignite and were removed from the station without incident.
Sept 19, 2003 - Through media reports, the ELF Press Office has been made aware of an Earth Liberation Front action against urban sprawl in the early morning hours of September 19, 2003. Although the ELF Press Office has received no communications about this actions from the persons responsible, a banner found at the site of the fires reading "Development destruction. Stop raping nature. The ELFs are angry," indicates a claim of responsibility by ELF activists.
Sept 16, 2003 - On September 12th Josh Connole, a known environmentalist and peace activist, was arrested by the FBI. Josh was accused by the FBI of involvement with the ELF-claimed fire and vandalism of SUV dealerships in West Covina, California on August 22nd, which resulted in over a million dollars in damages. On September 15th, Connole was released without charges due to a lack of evidence to make the case against him.
August 30, 2003 - In the largest act of environmental sabotage in US history, the Earth Liberation Front (ELF) has accepted responsibility for a $50 million fire in San Diego, California, that destroyed an unfinished five-story condominium complex on August 1. The complex is owned by Garden Communities, the second largest developer in Southern California. Nationwide, Garden Communities owns more than 40,000 apartments and 25 million square feet of commercial space.
July 02,2003 - The Earth Liberation Front Press Office has received an anonymous communique from the Earth Liberation Front claiming responsibility for two fires that took place on the night of June 4th, 2003 in Macomb County, Michigan. The anti-sprawl action targeted two homes nearing completion in the Willow Ridge development and resulted in $700,000 in damages. Graffiti left at the site read "ELF - Stop Sprawl", indicating that the action was in fact taken by the ELF.
Since 1997, the ELF in North America has caused over $100 million in damages to entities.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
NewBie - so ELF represents all "environmentalists" to you?
So... I can equate the Taliban with all "religious conservatives," or associate Bernie Ebbers and Ken Lay with all "corporate executives?"
I'm not looking to start a pissing match - just trying to see where you stand on this.
So... I can equate the Taliban with all "religious conservatives," or associate Bernie Ebbers and Ken Lay with all "corporate executives?"
I'm not looking to start a pissing match - just trying to see where you stand on this.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Newer wind turbines are spin at much lower RPMs than the ones that are alleged to attract birds like moths to the flame and chop them up bass-o-matic style.
They're also more efficient, now that the designers have wisened up and started to use cost-effective materials like plywood instead of nosebleed-expensive composites.
They're also more efficient, now that the designers have wisened up and started to use cost-effective materials like plywood instead of nosebleed-expensive composites.
jayflash
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's a shame that extremists of all causes can't funnel their energies into something productive rather than destructive. Extremists only give their cause a bad name and further resistance to it, and that's pretty dumb. I cringe when I read about EV and PETA extremists because it distracts people from the real issues.
Yes, I too believe we share more in common than not. My hope is that, eventually, enough of us vote in a manner that politicians will listen.
Yes, I too believe we share more in common than not. My hope is that, eventually, enough of us vote in a manner that politicians will listen.
NewBie
*Retired*
Conservative Naturalist.
