EV charging cables cut by copper "recyclers"

Bronco

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 3, 2003
Messages
502
Location
Los Angeles
According to the Knob, the sun will provide all the power you need.🤣

He says he's from San Francisco?

I think I might know where in the city...


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whiteshepherd

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
22
I also have solar walkway lights and motion lights that store electricity in a battery. They are entirely dependent on the sun and not always dependable. No or little sun = no or little light at night. Charging an EV with solar is a whole different story. If you think you're going to do that, you need a huge amount of time, and uninterrupted sun and lots of it to charge those massive batteries. Or do you actually think you're going to attach solar panels to the car and charge while driving? Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha,Ha. Maybe on a tiny single passenger, impractical vehicle the size of a skateboard, lol.
Actually being serious using solar is VERY viable. I live up here in NW PA near Lake Erie. I charge my chevy Bolt with solar. Even on cloudy days I still often get %30 power. Sometimes on snowy winters I'll fall back on grid. But I mostly use solar for the car. I live on a farm and set the array up in my back yard. Used my stimulus payments and bought a new surplus 3.4k solar array (10x 340 watt) for $1k (they had sat on site for a year so got them cheap). These feed to a charge controller which charges my 15+kWh LFP battery bank. I have a 7k watt pure sine wave inverter to use that power which charges my Bolt EV I bought used (driven it from 35k to 100k+ miles). I built my budget solar setup for two reasons. One I wanted to charge my car, and save some money. Second I wanted to have backup power in case of weather, emergency, war, etc. For example, everything is so interconnected nation states have long figured out how to hard brick controllers for each other's power stations/line nodes. You bring a large part of the grid down it could take weeks, months, or even years to piecemail it back online. Especially if in a war you can't get chips from Taiwan which is the only source for many! No getting gas at a station if the area grid is down either (had that happen last year and GF needed my EV to get her daughter). I'll eventually expand my solar. But for now it was money well spent IMO for safety/prep. I have enough power to run my gas furnace, AC, lights, fridge, and microwave if needed in an emergency. Plus while the grid is up it saves me a little money on the side charging my daily driving on the EV. Just my experiences.
 

vincent3685

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
196
Actually being serious using solar is VERY viable. I live up here in NW PA near Lake Erie. I charge my chevy Bolt with solar. Even on cloudy days I still often get %30 power. Sometimes on snowy winters I'll fall back on grid. But I mostly use solar for the car. I live on a farm and set the array up in my back yard. Used my stimulus payments and bought a new surplus 3.4k solar array (10x 340 watt) for $1k (they had sat on site for a year so got them cheap). These feed to a charge controller which charges my 15+kWh LFP battery bank. I have a 7k watt pure sine wave inverter to use that power which charges my Bolt EV I bought used (driven it from 35k to 100k+ miles). I built my budget solar setup for two reasons. One I wanted to charge my car, and save some money. Second I wanted to have backup power in case of weather, emergency, war, etc. For example, everything is so interconnected nation states have long figured out how to hard brick controllers for each other's power stations/line nodes. You bring a large part of the grid down it could take weeks, months, or even years to piecemail it back online. Especially if in a war you can't get chips from Taiwan which is the only source for many! No getting gas at a station if the area grid is down either (had that happen last year and GF needed my EV to get her daughter). I'll eventually expand my solar. But for now it was money well spent IMO for safety/prep. I have enough power to run my gas furnace, AC, lights, fridge, and microwave if needed in an emergency. Plus while the grid is up it saves me a little money on the side charging my daily driving on the EV. Just my experiences.
Yeah, it's viable; if you have the space and exposure for the solar panels, if your HOA even allows it, if you can afford all the initial equipment costs (solar panels, charge controller, batteries, inverter, etc.), and if you have the time to allow the system to charge your EV batteries. Assuming you're using a fully charged battery bank to charge the EV, how long does it take to fully charge it? If you're using solar to charge the EV directly, are you mainly driving at night and charging in the daytime? I understand GM has discontinued the Bolt. How long before you need to replace the battery in that car, and at what cost, and how long will GM even continue making parts for it?

How long will it take to recover all that equipment cost? How many charge cycles can you expect to get from those LiFePO4 batteries? They do have a long life, but will eventually need to be replaced. At what cost?

Most gas stations in my area use backup power with a transfer switch if the power goes down. I have lost power to my home, yet right up the street, gas stations were still operating uninterrupted. Even drove up to get gas for my generator during the single power outage we had in 38 years.

I'm not saying solar doesn't work. It just doesn't work for everyone in every situation. It does charge my low voltage walkway lights and motion lights, if they get good sun exposure. However, due to having too many trees on my property, I won't be installing solar panels any time soon.
 
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Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
21,058
Location
NYC
For the vast majority of folks, Solar just isn't viable.
Despite how much time has gone by, it's still very much in its infancy as far as efficiency goes. A portable set-up is going to be three panels that fold in on each other, about 3' x 3' each. (That's feet, not inches.)

Yes, you can buy a small solar panel about the size of a Nook with a short length of USB cable attached to it. I did. But only as a prop. to use on my 2nd YouTube channel where I make ASMR videos. Almost all of which are role-plays. That small thing is a joke.
 

whiteshepherd

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
22
Yeah, it's viable; if you have the space and exposure for the solar panels, if your HOA even allows it, if you can afford all the initial equipment costs (solar panels, charge controller, batteries, inverter, etc.), and if you have the time to allow the system to charge your EV batteries. Assuming you're using a fully charged battery bank to charge the EV, how long does it take to fully charge it? If you're using solar to charge the EV directly, are you mainly driving at night and charging in the daytime? I understand GM has discontinued the Bolt. How long before you need to replace the battery in that car, and at what cost, and how long will GM even continue making parts for it?

How long will it take to recover all that equipment cost? How many charge cycles can you expect to get from those LiFePO4 batteries? They do have a long life, but will eventually need to be replaced. At what cost?

Most gas stations in my area use backup power with a transfer switch if the power goes down. I have lost power to my home, yet right up the street, gas stations were still operating uninterrupted. Even drove up to get gas for my generator during the single power outage we had in 38 years.

I'm not saying solar doesn't work. It just doesn't work for everyone in every situation. It does charge my low voltage walkway lights and motion lights, if they get good sun exposure. However, due to having too many trees on my property, I won't be installing solar panels any time soon.
Well I'll do my best to answer your questions from my personal experience. I agree they are not for everyone. Though I think more people could use them than many think. Again I started this project as a way for power security. I see security like I do fire insurances on my home. I don't get it because the worst will happen. I get it in case the worst happens I have invested in that security for my family. I just get the benefit of some free driving since I built it. Outside that YMMV I suspect.

"Yeah, it's viable; if you have the space and exposure for the solar panels, if your HOA even allows it,"

Well I live on a rural farm so I got plenty of space. A lot of Amish here though no HOA foolishness. The panels did not take much space at all. I'd say the 10 panels was near 3ft by 5ft each. That can easily fit on a roof or yard IF you have a sunny spot as you said (many do though some don't). To get an idea on size here is my step daughter helping to "clean" them (facebook post). :) They haven't been mounted yet though work fine on the ground. I'll be doing a frame this summer.

"How long will it take to recover all that equipment cost? How many charge cycles can you expect to get from those LiFePO4 batteries? They do have a long life, but will eventually need to be replaced. At what cost?"

If your purpose is for safety and security it's not as important to recover the cost quickly. I have good flashlights in all the vehicles, and throughout the house. As long as I can afford it reasonably I'm not to worried about it. So let's get down to my solar costs. I paid $1k for the 10 solar panels. I'm frugal and found a builder on FB marketplace that had extras. The batteries were the expensive part. If I recall at the time a 12v 200AH LFP with BMS (2.56 Wh) was around $700. I wanted a lot of backup time so I bought x6 of them. My charge controller and inverter and wire if I recall was perhaps around $800-$900 together. As far as the batteries there is no such thing as battery cycles. That's more a layman's term for battery degradation. Batteries degrade when you charge them. The deeper you discharge the expedentionally more degradation you get when charged. Therefore be it cars or any device/use it is better to have a bigger battery if you can mostly shallow discharge. LFP should get around 2000-4000 cycles with heavy use. They last a lot longer than the lithium turnery. However if you don't frequently discharge past %40 DOD then your likely to get 20k-40k cycles. These batteries should get me a few good few decades if not more before needing replaced.

"I understand GM has discontinued the Bolt. How long before you need to replace the battery in that car, and at what cost, and how long will GM even continue making parts for it?"

Yes GM decided to discontinue the Bolt. But then they decided to continue it due to the popularity of it (likely because it was their only small EV car) switching to LFP batteries. It is estimated 2025-2026 the when new versions will be out according to GM. If they did discontinue the Bolt then by law they must provide parts for at least 10 years (many go longer). One of the things I liked about the Bolt was aside from the high voltage traction systems it is made with standard GM parts used in other cars. As far as life of the battery where most people abuse cars, I have always known how to baby my cars for max life. My Toyotas I did regular maintenance and got 300k+ miles easy out of them. I know how to care for the battery in my 2017 Bolt. At 100k+ miles I am at roughly %3 battery degradation (Foolish kids who buy a Tesla and drive to 0%/fast charge multiple times a day wear their battery out in 2-3 years). I should get 500k miles easy out of this car's battery based on existing wear/mileage. I replace the windshield wipers, and tires at 60k miles (Goodyear Reliant tires for $75 each). That's it from my pocketbook. Last I checked a Bolt replacement battery was around $6000 (smaller battery than larger cars). Though doubt I'd need one the way things are going.


"Assuming you're using a fully charged battery bank to charge the EV, how long does it take to fully charge it? If you're using solar to charge the EV directly, are you mainly driving at night and charging in the daytime?"

The charge controller tops off the LFP batteries then goes on standby till power is needed. Driving is at different times. I do try and charge during the day as that puts less load on the batteries. Sometimes it gets plugged in the afternoon after morning runs or charged the next day if not much is going on. Or it can take a charge at night if not a lot of driving. My solar inverter is 120V so I use the charger that comes with my car. If I plug in by noon it's usually finished before 7PM. But that depends on how much driving too. Less driving=less time charging, and more driving=more time. I also have a LV2 240V charge cord I installed for $500 that goes to grid in my garage I can use if needed. That will charge the car in like 2 hours typically (though depends on discharge level). Being flexible with a little forethought we can use the sun, and batteries. But we can fall back on the grid if needed too. My next upgrade to the system will likely be a hybrid inverter. That goes between your grid and breaker box. After batteries are charged it uses solar to offset grid use. Only using grid power when needed. That would be a more efficient setup for a cost return than what I'm doing now.

"Most gas stations in my area use backup power with a transfer switch if the power goes down. I have lost power to my home, yet right up the street, gas stations were still operating uninterrupted. Even drove up to get gas for my generator during the single power outage we had in 38 years."

Wow! Then you are quite lucky as most of us do not live in a place that only has a power outage every 38+ years! Most of us especially rural areas will get outages a few times to several times a year if not more. Some gas stations do have generators. When this quarter of the state's power went out last year we drove 35 mi to a Sheetz in a town. They had the only power in the town, and we ordered food and shakes for the kids (long lines as they were the only ones open). However, that only works so long. In a long term outage like what we've seen down South during bad hurricanes' gas distribution gets disrupted, and stations go dry. Sounds like where you live is a very stable area. Just for us some power security has been nice, and I like self sufficiency for emergencies. It's a personal choice.

"I'm not saying solar doesn't work. It just doesn't work for everyone in every situation. It does charge my low voltage walkway lights and motion lights, if they get good sun exposure. However, due to having too many trees on my property, I won't be installing solar panels any time soon."

Yeah I agree it's a personal choice. YMMV is very much true for any individual and their situation. Like the EV. I personally think right now they are not good for everyone. If you can charge at home, and do a lot of local driving they have a LOT of potential over gas. That said it does not fit everyone in the current form. CATL for example has a new battery chemistry reported that does not degrade for at least 3m miles (Salt/Lithium based), %40 cheaper, and offers 600mi average ranges. If true something like that will help a lot. It will be interesting to watch what technologies eventually take root? But even then if I had to try and predict, I would guess EV adoption maybe reaching %50 adoption rate from those who want the lower costs (cheaper to make/own), compared to those who can't charge easily, and need the flexibility of gas. A lot will depend on where the technology goes, and if things like regular gas stations adopt charge stations to go with their gas pumps? I guess we'll see? :)
 

Toulouse42

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
292
Location
Jersey
Well I'll do my best to answer your questions from my personal experience. I agree they are not for everyone. Though I think more people could use them than many think. Again I started this project as a way for power security. I see security like I do fire insurances on my home. I don't get it because the worst will happen. I get it in case the worst happens I have invested in that security for my family. I just get the benefit of some free driving since I built it. Outside that YMMV I suspect.

"Yeah, it's viable; if you have the space and exposure for the solar panels, if your HOA even allows it,"

Well I live on a rural farm so I got plenty of space. A lot of Amish here though no HOA foolishness. The panels did not take much space at all. I'd say the 10 panels was near 3ft by 5ft each. That can easily fit on a roof or yard IF you have a sunny spot as you said (many do though some don't). To get an idea on size here is my step daughter helping to "clean" them (facebook post). :) They haven't been mounted yet though work fine on the ground. I'll be doing a frame this summer.

"How long will it take to recover all that equipment cost? How many charge cycles can you expect to get from those LiFePO4 batteries? They do have a long life, but will eventually need to be replaced. At what cost?"

If your purpose is for safety and security it's not as important to recover the cost quickly. I have good flashlights in all the vehicles, and throughout the house. As long as I can afford it reasonably I'm not to worried about it. So let's get down to my solar costs. I paid $1k for the 10 solar panels. I'm frugal and found a builder on FB marketplace that had extras. The batteries were the expensive part. If I recall at the time a 12v 200AH LFP with BMS (2.56 Wh) was around $700. I wanted a lot of backup time so I bought x6 of them. My charge controller and inverter and wire if I recall was perhaps around $800-$900 together. As far as the batteries there is no such thing as battery cycles. That's more a layman's term for battery degradation. Batteries degrade when you charge them. The deeper you discharge the expedentionally more degradation you get when charged. Therefore be it cars or any device/use it is better to have a bigger battery if you can mostly shallow discharge. LFP should get around 2000-4000 cycles with heavy use. They last a lot longer than the lithium turnery. However if you don't frequently discharge past %40 DOD then your likely to get 20k-40k cycles. These batteries should get me a few good few decades if not more before needing replaced.

"I understand GM has discontinued the Bolt. How long before you need to replace the battery in that car, and at what cost, and how long will GM even continue making parts for it?"

Yes GM decided to discontinue the Bolt. But then they decided to continue it due to the popularity of it (likely because it was their only small EV car) switching to LFP batteries. It is estimated 2025-2026 the when new versions will be out according to GM. If they did discontinue the Bolt then by law they must provide parts for at least 10 years (many go longer). One of the things I liked about the Bolt was aside from the high voltage traction systems it is made with standard GM parts used in other cars. As far as life of the battery where most people abuse cars, I have always known how to baby my cars for max life. My Toyotas I did regular maintenance and got 300k+ miles easy out of them. I know how to care for the battery in my 2017 Bolt. At 100k+ miles I am at roughly %3 battery degradation (Foolish kids who buy a Tesla and drive to 0%/fast charge multiple times a day wear their battery out in 2-3 years). I should get 500k miles easy out of this car's battery based on existing wear/mileage. I replace the windshield wipers, and tires at 60k miles (Goodyear Reliant tires for $75 each). That's it from my pocketbook. Last I checked a Bolt replacement battery was around $6000 (smaller battery than larger cars). Though doubt I'd need one the way things are going.


"Assuming you're using a fully charged battery bank to charge the EV, how long does it take to fully charge it? If you're using solar to charge the EV directly, are you mainly driving at night and charging in the daytime?"

The charge controller tops off the LFP batteries then goes on standby till power is needed. Driving is at different times. I do try and charge during the day as that puts less load on the batteries. Sometimes it gets plugged in the afternoon after morning runs or charged the next day if not much is going on. Or it can take a charge at night if not a lot of driving. My solar inverter is 120V so I use the charger that comes with my car. If I plug in by noon it's usually finished before 7PM. But that depends on how much driving too. Less driving=less time charging, and more driving=more time. I also have a LV2 240V charge cord I installed for $500 that goes to grid in my garage I can use if needed. That will charge the car in like 2 hours typically (though depends on discharge level). Being flexible with a little forethought we can use the sun, and batteries. But we can fall back on the grid if needed too. My next upgrade to the system will likely be a hybrid inverter. That goes between your grid and breaker box. After batteries are charged it uses solar to offset grid use. Only using grid power when needed. That would be a more efficient setup for a cost return than what I'm doing now.

"Most gas stations in my area use backup power with a transfer switch if the power goes down. I have lost power to my home, yet right up the street, gas stations were still operating uninterrupted. Even drove up to get gas for my generator during the single power outage we had in 38 years."

Wow! Then you are quite lucky as most of us do not live in a place that only has a power outage every 38+ years! Most of us especially rural areas will get outages a few times to several times a year if not more. Some gas stations do have generators. When this quarter of the state's power went out last year we drove 35 mi to a Sheetz in a town. They had the only power in the town, and we ordered food and shakes for the kids (long lines as they were the only ones open). However, that only works so long. In a long term outage like what we've seen down South during bad hurricanes' gas distribution gets disrupted, and stations go dry. Sounds like where you live is a very stable area. Just for us some power security has been nice, and I like self sufficiency for emergencies. It's a personal choice.

"I'm not saying solar doesn't work. It just doesn't work for everyone in every situation. It does charge my low voltage walkway lights and motion lights, if they get good sun exposure. However, due to having too many trees on my property, I won't be installing solar panels any time soon."

Yeah I agree it's a personal choice. YMMV is very much true for any individual and their situation. Like the EV. I personally think right now they are not good for everyone. If you can charge at home, and do a lot of local driving they have a LOT of potential over gas. That said it does not fit everyone in the current form. CATL for example has a new battery chemistry reported that does not degrade for at least 3m miles (Salt/Lithium based), %40 cheaper, and offers 600mi average ranges. If true something like that will help a lot. It will be interesting to watch what technologies eventually take root? But even then if I had to try and predict, I would guess EV adoption maybe reaching %50 adoption rate from those who want the lower costs (cheaper to make/own), compared to those who can't charge easily, and need the flexibility of gas. A lot will depend on where the technology goes, and if things like regular gas stations adopt charge stations to go with their gas pumps? I guess we'll see? :)

I appreciate your explanations. We are considering solar panels for the same reason as you but we have two problems that you don't. I have zero knowledge of how to do any of this so I'm going to need to learn or pay someone to do the installation. Secondly, for reasons relating to my location, we can't get anything cheap. The quotes we got so far were insane and that was without batteries!.

On the other hand, our power supply is pretty reliable here, but you know what they say "you don't know how good your preparations are until they fail"
 

whiteshepherd

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 13, 2019
Messages
22
I appreciate your explanations. We are considering solar panels for the same reason as you but we have two problems that you don't. I have zero knowledge of how to do any of this so I'm going to need to learn or pay someone to do the installation. Secondly, for reasons relating to my location, we can't get anything cheap. The quotes we got so far were insane and that was without batteries!.

On the other hand, our power supply is pretty reliable here, but you know what they say "you don't know how good your preparations are until they fail"
Yeah we lost power once for two weeks when we lived in Ohio. Temp was near 100 high humidity. Everyone was sick from the heat. I was like... "Never again!".

If your looking to expand your Solar knowledge on what is best, how to connect, and get at the best prices I recommend a YouTube channel by Will Prowse. He is very beginner friendly and even tears down inverters/batteries to show people what is good and bad about different brands. Got some really good knowledge there. Good luck! https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,840
Location
Dust in the Wind
To me the most shocking thing about this thread (no pun intended) is all of the speak of home owner associations and their limits on what you can and cannot have. Folks all over America are moving into little bubbles run by little dictators and just sigh like "oh well, that's the rule"..... wuthehell happened to the pioneer spirit?
It's sad to watch.

Sure, keep your grass cut and don't leave the can out front for a week at a time, but geez, show some freakin' back bone. Rebel! Dig up those hastas and replace those crape myrtles with oak trees. If you want a solar roof by golly get one.
IMG_5643.jpeg
 
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KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,645
Location
New Mexico, USA
Yeah we lost power once for two weeks when we lived in Ohio. Temp was near 100 high humidity. Everyone was sick from the heat. I was like... "Never again!".

If your looking to expand your Solar knowledge on what is best, how to connect, and get at the best prices I recommend a YouTube channel by Will Prowse. He is very beginner friendly and even tears down inverters/batteries to show people what is good and bad about different brands. Got some really good knowledge there. Good luck! https://www.youtube.com/@WillProwse
Will Prowse is the owner of diysolarforum. There are active members there who are in the business and know their stuff.

The solar energy world is fast paced and some of Will's videos are not reflective with what is going on today. The more recent reviews and basic info is good though.

At a certain point he was charging Asian companies something like $20,000 to review their economy batteries then bashing them hard if they did not perform. Or we have seen cheapo makers initially sell decent quality, get a good reputation then use garbage lousy components after then fold when their sales plunge.

No shortage of schemers and shafters in the solar industry.

Know that this young person drives Tesla cars and is uncomfortable even going to a gas station for a refill. He packs heat and says that he practices shooting regularly.
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,645
Location
New Mexico, USA
Vegas: serious solar stuff going on there.

You can label and dismiss but..
Individual makes more money than he has use for; dabbles in bitcoin and real estate from what I read.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,819
Location
Pacific N.W.
Vegas: serious solar stuff going on there.
Las Vegas makes total sense for implementing solar.

You can label and dismiss but..
Individual makes more money than he has use for; dabbles in bitcoin and real estate from what I read.
No one was labeled or dismissed.

Let's all relax our sphincters and try to get along. I'll start. 😁
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,645
Location
New Mexico, USA
Yeah, it is evident there are EV naysayers quite active here, repeating negative elements over and over again for questionable reasons; name calling a person who is doing the same on the pro EV side.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,819
Location
Pacific N.W.
Yeah, it is evident there are EV naysayers quite active here, repeating negative elements over and over again for questionable reasons; name calling a person who is doing the same on the pro EV side.
I was only "speaking" to the last few posts, which is what I misunderstood you as doing.

The majority of members commenting appear to be Live and let live type people. Eg, If an EV meets your needs, that's all well and good for you, but the government shouldn't force them on everyone wanting to purchase a new automobile. That is not a questionable reason.

I don't think it's fair to label (name-call) someone as a naysayer for merely pointing out that EVs have issues that limit their mass appeal.
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,840
Location
Dust in the Wind
VA governor pulls back the mandate to follow California.
👆 two perspectives on the matter.

Want an EV? That's cool. But the gubner says he won't make you buy one. :clap:
 
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Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
21,058
Location
NYC
And all of those issues have been covered numerous times.
But there are folks out there who ignore them.
I've pointed out before how my best friend of over 30 years has turned into a huge EV fanatic. Yet, even he acknowledges that they are simply not the be all/end all of future private transportation for the Public. Heck, I've never called him out on it. But truth is, if his wife didn't own a gasoline-powered, conventional vehicle.... I doubt he'd be as enthused about leasing a one or two year-old Chevy or KIA EV. (Anything goes wrong, he's got that extra set of keys to his wife's sedan.)
 
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