every time I use a cutoff tool, I have to re-center my chuck

unterhausen

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Jan 16, 2009
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I have a Buck set-tru 6 jaw chuck. I have been annoyed by how often I have to center it, but I finally realized it goes way out of whack every time I use a cutoff tool, i.e. heavy cutting forces. It still seems strange to me.

What am I supposed to do with the adjuster screws. Seems like they should be tight, but in retrospect they can push and pull, correct? What should I do with them when I'm done adjusting?
 
Sorry, been out of the shop for the past oh......... err......... sheesh...... 26 years.

Anywho, to answer your question, I went to the manual (google is your friend) and it states:

To adjust chuck to the required accuracy, insert the ground shaft (use fully and precisely ground shafts only) fully into the chuck jaws and rotate while tightening the chuck jaws to ensure the ground shaft is gripped firmly. Screw in the fine adjustment screws until light contact is made with the adapter. Place an indicator point on the shaft, about 2 3/8" from the chuck jaw top step face surface (see Fig.#3) and rotate teh chuck by hand. Note the high and low points and the nearest fine adjustment screw to them. Rotate the chuck to the fine adjustment screw nearest the high point and unscrew slightly. Rotate the chuck to the opposite fine screw and screw it in to take up half the TIR error. Repeat this procedure until all the desired accuracy is obtained and all the fine adjustment screws are equally tight. Then lock the chuck mounting bolts in place with equal torque.

According to the manual your chuck should have 1/4"-20 chuck mounting bolts which the manual specs to 5.0 foot pounds.

Hope this answers your question.

Christian aka

Kaptain "I sure wish I still had a metal lathe to play with" Zero
 
I have the same chuck, and I never had to re-center it after "any" operation, including parting, and Brian (Mirage_Man) has the same one as well, and I have never heard him complain about this, and he uses his on Ti. My only explanation would be that once you center it, you might not be tightening the mounting bolts strong enough.

Also keep in mind that once you start tightening the bolts the chuck will move a little, so tighten the mounting bolts very gradually and keep doing fine adjustments until those mounting bolts are really nice and tight.
 
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I have had a 4" buck 6 jaw and found it would need to be recentered. Once I properly leveled the lathe, it stopped needing to be re centered. Proper and even torque on the bolts too helps.
 
If you are putting that much force on it when parting, it seems like something is wrong with your parting process.

A parting tool is just a specialized cutting tool with a narrow shank and a (usually) flat tip. It just cuts a very deep groove. The cutting edge should be sharp in order to cleanly cut the groove. I hone mine every few uses with a diamond coated nail file.

To give an example of how little force is involved, I use two fingertips to turn the hand-wheel on my crossfeed when doing aluminum.

The only time mine has a lot of force on it is when I have loose gibs and the tool set too high. Under those circumstances the tool goes lower and digs in, taking a much bigger bite.

I could, of course be totally wrong here. :) I only use a 7x12, and keep my cuts within the limits of the machine.

Daniel
 
I never had to re-center it after "any" operation, including parting ...
If you never push your cutting tools to the limit, meaning there is never any chatter in any operation, the Set-Tru type chucks will stay centered.

But, if you ever have a boring bar hung way out in front of the toolpost (somewhere around 5D for a steel bar), if you ever part any distance from the chuck face, if a tool is ever set for too much DOC plus too fast a feed, or a part is fixtured marginally, etc., you'll probably want to recheck the chuck on a ground bar (Thomson linear shafting or equal).

I go through the centering procedure by the book, leave the four centering screws tight, and then tighten the chuck screws with an 18" Tommy bar (cheater bar) slipped over the allen wrench. I've never checked the tightness with a torque wrench, but the allen bolts are killer tight ... and the chuck still gets knocked off center with any op that produces heavy chatter. Not a problem that can't be corrected in ten minutes.:D

For any job that needs great precision (press fits & bearing fits being the most picky), the chuck is tested for centering before the machining ever starts. Much like leveling the bed, this is not a once in a lifetime process. If the chuck is off center, and the part is dismounted & remounted, you find out too late that this isn't something to skip over :nana:
 
I guess that I have both been lucky, and have not attempted too heavy a cut (I normally don't part on the lathe and use the metal bandsaw more often), but I like your idea of re-checking at the start of any higher accuracy project - good advice - thanks ;)
 
maybe are chips in the chuck?

one chip should not harm with 6 jaw but maybe its full with chips ;)
--> Check next time the center also with outer diameter from chuck.

zelda
 
One of the most common problems with parting on the lathe is using tool too wide for the machine. On most any lathe under 16", a 2mm tool is about all the machine will handle. Once the machine reaches 16"-18" swing (or larger) there's enough mass to use a 3mm tool. My machine does terribly with a 3mm tool - tried it a few times & bought a 2mm tool instead ... night & day difference.

Tip height is a big deal with parting tools, and they want to rub if set at all above center. I bring the tool to center & back off the height adjuster slightly, trying to end up a couple of thou below center. If the tool is too low, it will try to dig and the part will try to ride up the tip, so it shouldn't be much below .002" under center height.

Some materials part better than others. On my machine, for whatever reason, nothing parts nicer than 4140HT (30 Rockwell C). Ti 6-4 is slightly harder at 36 HRc (annealed condition), so it isn't a total surprise that Brian has no trouble parting Ti 6-4 in his lathe. IIRC, he also has a fairly heavy machine.
 
thanks for all the input, glad I asked. I have some ideas.
I've been told by people I trust that they check their set-tru chuck center on anything they care about. But my case seems extreme.

I keep thinking about taking the chuck apart, there aren't any obvious chips, but it does seem to act strangely.

I keep thinking I'm doing it so much that I should get better at it, but it hasn't happened yet.
 
It never hurts to disassemble the chuck, clean & regrease the pinion gears, etc. I don't think this is the cause of your problem, but your chuck will be much nicer to operate after cleaning :D

All the Set-Tru (and similar adjustable chucks) are designed to allow movement of the jaws relative to the centerline of the lathe. Gentle ops won't move the jaws, because the pressure required to shear metal from the part is symmetrical. Chattering cuts impose huge shock loads that overcome the ability of the three (relatively) small bolts that hold the chuck onto the backing plate. Some of my setups have been so bad that all four of the centering screws backed out ... and anything sitting on top of the headstock vibrated to the edge & fell to the floor :mecry: Those situations are best avoided, but they will happen on occasion & they will knock the alignment off.

Here's some good info from CNCzone:

Just to add a little detail to the process for the less initiated. Not better, but may add some comprehension in doing this quickly.

There is no better chuck for rework and repair than a set true. A 4 jaw will do, but the part shifts around too much while getting it aligned.

I use a dial test indicator but a travel indicator would work. With a ground pin in chuck jaws, indicate on pin OD, and adjust 4 setscrews on chuck periphery, until runout=0 (adjust 1 screw, then adjust screw @180 degrees opposite)

With the indicator set some where between 10 and 12 O-clock on the test piece OD. Find the highest point in the runout. Now sight an imaginary line from the OD of the chuck, through the point that the indicator is touching to the center line of the spindle axis. Observe where the "set true screws" are at in relation to that imaginary line. Loosen the closest one a tad and mental note the indicator needle position. Now rotate the chuck 180 and observe the total difference on the indicator, and tighten this opposite screw now pointing at you 1/2 that reading. REPEAT and rinse until all runout is gone to your satisfaction.

Usually within about 4 tests, you can have it running true at the position of the rod being checked. Keep in mind, you may want perfection, but if the part being trued is not round, split the differences and call it good-nuff. Another fact in truing a chuck. It will only run true for the diameter being gripped. Do not expect other size bars to run true. Slight deformations in the scroll shift each jaw. Abused chucks are worse for this, but even new chucks need checking when the grip diameter will be used untouched, but critical to the part function.

Further more, for a new chuck. I wouldn't blindly trust the jaws or the mount as it fits your lathe nose compared to the factory running alignment. At least check it out for your own peace of mind. First indicate in the OD of the chuck body true. Then compare this to a ground test rod gripped in the jaws for runout. Check the rods runout near the jaws and 4-6" out from the jaws. If the runout is greater than .003 and worse as you travel away, I would grind the jaws true to the chuck body centerline as it is mounted. The mount should have an arrow or a zero marker so it is mounted in the same position each time on the spindle nose. If it is missing, add your own at the time the jaws are ground in place on the lathe. If you do not have the capability to grind, beg, buy, borrow or steal a set of soft jaws in the same config as your hard jaws. Mill and turn them to suit. I won't go into all the details of grinding or turning soft jaws. There are plenty of those procedures to peruse as needed.

For 3 jaw secondary operations or reworking of a part that needs to be cleaned up with minimal material removal or mod'ing features. Grip the part in the chuck and align its face or 2 ends of the bore to set the part true to the spindle centerline first. Using known good surfaces that have the least amount of wear or use selective reasoning of the original machined surface. Say a step or a grove or the end face, flange etc. Once the part is confirmed parallel to the spindle axis, then use the set-true screws to bring the OD or ID on center as detailed above. Again, the idea here is slelecting the best surface alignment reference that everything else on the part needs to be true to.

If all else fails. The best plan to keep a turned part true, is to turn all accessible features BEFORE the part is parted off. Secondary operations for OD work can be completed on another part(like a spud, mandrel or shank) turned to size regardless where the runout of the chuck is at, within reason.

Adjustable chucks are the best thing since sliced bread, but their adjust-ability makes them a little more delicate than a non adjustable chuck. I try not to abuse mine, often going to the 4-jaw or faceplate if the job looks like a problem.
 
I'm not sure what to think. I realized today that the reason the chuck was running out of true this time was that at least one of the cams had come loose. I recently changed them when it became apparent they were less than adequate. I guess I should change the bosses on the chuck now.
 
the reason the chuck was running out of true this time was that at least one of the cams had come loose
Quite a few D-mount chucks use just three studs, so only three cams hold the chuck to the registration surface. Three studs, located with 120 degree radial spacing, should give equal accuracy to using all six studs.

D-mount chucks rely on a shallow taper in the back of the chuck that mates to a short projection on the chuck mounting flange to achieve centering ... sort of like installing a Morse Taper shank into the tailstock ram except the angles are only about 7 degrees. As long as the spindle nose is in decent shape (and they seem to stay that way for decades) one loose cam should not affect runout.

Have you clocked the chuck through all six positions & checked TIR at each one? Make sure to do this, as there will be one or two positions that give the smallest runout. Pick the best one and make a prick punch mark on both the side of the chuck and the side of the spindle nose ... my lathe spindle has RR stamped in one place & all my chucks (and faceplate) now have a matching RR mark.

There is always some discussion on cam tightening sequence & cam torque, and it seems that at least a few machines are sensitive to how the cams are tightened. FWIW, I use the tighter-is-better approach & snug each cam with an 18" Tommy bar slipped over the end of the cam wrench - you'll never have a loose cam if this is done, but it can & will score a cam that wasn't properly heat treated, so use this method at your own risk.
 
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