Penguin
Enlightened
Does anyone know if Surefire replaces the faulty cells? I've seemed to have gotten a bad batch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Any suggestions?
-Josh
-Josh
Faulty Surefire 123 Lithiums...
- Thread starter Penguin
- Start date
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GeoffChan
Enlightened
What's the expiry date on those lithiums?
Surefire had a bad batch a while back.
Geoff
Surefire had a bad batch a while back.
Geoff
Penguin
Enlightened
They're 01-2013 seems pretty new...
LEDagent
Flashlight Enthusiast
I heard, that when a set of batteries fail in a flashlight, it is most likely that only one cell has failed while the other(s) are still good. Also, i heard that there is no way to tell which one is bad, even with a voltmeter.
My first Surefire had faulty batteries. The light had about 25 minutes of runtime and it suddenly went kaput on the next tailswitch press. It didn't even show any signs of dimming or yellowing.
This was my first Surefire and the first flashlight that used EXPENSIVE lithium batteries. I brought it back to the dealer thinking that the bulb blew. He said that i probably just need new batteries. He put in a new set and it lit up just fine. I said "THANKS!" He said "That'll be $13.50." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
My first Surefire had faulty batteries. The light had about 25 minutes of runtime and it suddenly went kaput on the next tailswitch press. It didn't even show any signs of dimming or yellowing.
This was my first Surefire and the first flashlight that used EXPENSIVE lithium batteries. I brought it back to the dealer thinking that the bulb blew. He said that i probably just need new batteries. He put in a new set and it lit up just fine. I said "THANKS!" He said "That'll be $13.50." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif
I've had a few that just died after a very short period of runtime. But the other ones that didn't die prematurely made up for the few that did. I've been very happy with SF battery quality and think that they deliver a very good quality cell overall....it does of course suck when one craps out unexpectedly after only 30 minutes though.
Jace
Newly Enlightened
So there is no good way to test for a bad battery before I use them in a light? I have a bunch still in the box.
Is there a big difference between the SF123 vs. a CR123? I mean, are the $5 Duracell or Energizer batts better quality & more reliable than the SF's? They sure are a lot more $$$!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I use the SF's in my home defense handgun.. I'd hate for that to die out during the wrong moment. Perhaps I'll keep the Energizer's in that, and use the SF's for my other lights, mods, and whatnot.
Is there a big difference between the SF123 vs. a CR123? I mean, are the $5 Duracell or Energizer batts better quality & more reliable than the SF's? They sure are a lot more $$$!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I use the SF's in my home defense handgun.. I'd hate for that to die out during the wrong moment. Perhaps I'll keep the Energizer's in that, and use the SF's for my other lights, mods, and whatnot.
batterystation
Enlightened
I have found the Surefires to be as good as the Sanyo $2 ones that I stock. They seem to be an excellent value.
Duracell being a bigger, more visible company will likely put out more consistant quality cells, and hence be your more reliable choice. They make an excellent CR123, but it's dang expensive. Maybe just use the SF's or TekCel's in everything else for the sheer economy factor.
JohnK
Flashlight Enthusiast
What company makes the SF 123's anyway ?
e=mc²
Enlightened
Well, it certainly isn't Duracell. I have ordered several dozen of the SFs given the great price, but now I question my choice, only because I have also noted premature failure (cell death) once at a very inopportune moment. That's why when I'm on the job, my company insists on Duracells. Expensive, yes. But very reliable, which is the reason for the expensive lithium lights in the first place. So I resigned the SFs for non duty purposes such as camping, recreational, etc. For that, they are an exceptional value.
Ed.
Ed.
Not shure if Surefire and some CPF members are really happy seeing such user reports - I would expect Surefire to believe and claim that their cells are as dependable as any other cells including the Duracells - I think it would be a VERY bad experience for Surefire that after lowering the price to user-friendly levels out of nowhere (more or less) reports are trickling in somwhow to the tone of "you get what you pay for" in regards to the SF 123 pricing.
Klaus
Klaus
Ray_of_Light
Flashlight Enthusiast
The shelf life of 123 lithium batteries is generically stated in 10 years time, but there are some constraints, connected to quality control of chemicals used to make such batteries.
Not all manufacturers produce the needed chemicals by themselves. The issue with 123 cells lies with manganese dioxide. This is the almost universal "depolarizer" used at positive side of almost all type of primary cells.
It is a very strong "oxidizer" but is a poor electrical conductor. So every manufacturer has its own "black magic" to increase its conductivity, by adding graphite, pure metals, and other additives. Consider that more the additive, higher is the cell efficiency, but less the capacity.
Now, considering the high oxidizing power of manganese dioxide, it is wonderfully stable. There is also to take into consideration that any chemical impurities, in the range of 1 part per million, will start, over the time, a stray chemical reaction (defined as "localized" micropilas) that will deactivate the manganese dioxide ability to operate.
I have no personal interest in saying this, but "what you pay" when you buy Duracell or Energizer IS the ASSURANCE that they really QC their chemicals.
In other words, their 123 cells will have more than 90% capacity after 10 years, they are 1300 mAh, will not self discharge if left half-used, and the efficiency is what stated in their published graphs. No more, but no less, at about double the price.
Anthony
Not all manufacturers produce the needed chemicals by themselves. The issue with 123 cells lies with manganese dioxide. This is the almost universal "depolarizer" used at positive side of almost all type of primary cells.
It is a very strong "oxidizer" but is a poor electrical conductor. So every manufacturer has its own "black magic" to increase its conductivity, by adding graphite, pure metals, and other additives. Consider that more the additive, higher is the cell efficiency, but less the capacity.
Now, considering the high oxidizing power of manganese dioxide, it is wonderfully stable. There is also to take into consideration that any chemical impurities, in the range of 1 part per million, will start, over the time, a stray chemical reaction (defined as "localized" micropilas) that will deactivate the manganese dioxide ability to operate.
I have no personal interest in saying this, but "what you pay" when you buy Duracell or Energizer IS the ASSURANCE that they really QC their chemicals.
In other words, their 123 cells will have more than 90% capacity after 10 years, they are 1300 mAh, will not self discharge if left half-used, and the efficiency is what stated in their published graphs. No more, but no less, at about double the price.
Anthony
Flashlightboy
Enlightened
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2001
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- 856
Out of the box I bought, expiration 6/11, one of them went dead after only a few minutes of use. It was being used in a 2 cell light and both cells were from the same box.
I tried using it in a KL1 but it wouldn't even so much as wimper. First one that I ever had do that. The rest have worked just fine. I've got about 100 SF 123s in boxes, some dated before and others more current. It's the only one that did that.
I tried using it in a KL1 but it wouldn't even so much as wimper. First one that I ever had do that. The rest have worked just fine. I've got about 100 SF 123s in boxes, some dated before and others more current. It's the only one that did that.
Brock
Flashaholic
Just sharing my experiences here, but I have run over six dozen SF batteries through various lights for testing over the last six months and have never seen this happen (knocking on wood). I would recommend if you do have a SF battery fail quickly like that (or are dead from the get go) to let me know via email and I will get you in touch with someone in the know about these batteries. Hopefully they can figure out what is causing these to fail and prevent it in the future.
robox49
Newly Enlightened
I've no experience with Surefire's 123's but troubleshooting my Surefire 12ZM yesterdayI used this procedure to locate a faulty cell.
I set my Fluke 77 to the 10 amp range and took a reading across the poles, a new one will jump to over 8 and then rapidly decrease, a bad one will barely break.25. Even nearly depleted they'll still read close to 3 volts, this might not be a scientifically sanctioned test but it worked for me. Price wise your still better off to buy three times the Tek-Cells even if they don' last as long as a Duracell, given the odd bad one they work for me just as long.
I set my Fluke 77 to the 10 amp range and took a reading across the poles, a new one will jump to over 8 and then rapidly decrease, a bad one will barely break.25. Even nearly depleted they'll still read close to 3 volts, this might not be a scientifically sanctioned test but it worked for me. Price wise your still better off to buy three times the Tek-Cells even if they don' last as long as a Duracell, given the odd bad one they work for me just as long.
Size15's
Flashaholic
I was told that SureFire use about 600 SF123A's each week and have never experienced any problems.
The reason they are so cheap is because SureFire is passing them on at cost after buying them in mind-blowing numbers, using their own labelling.
I urge anyone with any SF123A issues to talk to SureFire Tech Support and send in the cell(s) for replacement.
Thanks
Al
The reason they are so cheap is because SureFire is passing them on at cost after buying them in mind-blowing numbers, using their own labelling.
I urge anyone with any SF123A issues to talk to SureFire Tech Support and send in the cell(s) for replacement.
Thanks
Al
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
I may be wrong, but SureFire sells lights all over the world, to civilian and military authorities. They also provide the batteries for these agencies. I can not see them putting out a shoddy battery to go with their expensive lights. They may have one of the major battery makers produce them, but to SF's specs. Raise Hell with SF re defective batteries. Prior to Sure Fire label on batteries, they used to ship Duracell batteries, if I remember right. Bill
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