Fenix, 30 Lumens is too much brightness for low mode

Would you like to see Fenix use lower and moonlight brightness settings?

  • Yes

    Votes: 49 89.1%
  • No, what's available is fine

    Votes: 6 10.9%

  • Total voters
    55

PartyPete

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In larger, duty type lights I don't necessarily see a lack of moonlight as a deal breaker; for me big lights are just for blasting lumens. Double digit low modes aren't much of a concern.

On the other hand, small EDC lights - 5 lumen low is acceptable, 1 lumen or less is ideal.
 

seery

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The X65 is our daily use light around the horse barn and property. And the 3 levels we use most often are 4-500-12,000 lumens.

If it lacked the 4 lumen mode, it definitely wouldn’t be our go-to light.
 

ktsl

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Thank you for your comments and for creating this poll! We'll be interested to see the numbers that come from it. We do hear this subject come up occasionally so we know that you aren't alone in your thoughts on this.
We have begun to see some lower output levels like a 1 lumen option with the new UC35 V2 and we hope to see more variety like this in the future as well. We forward any and all customer comments to the engineers for consideration so I'll do the same with this thread as well. Thanks again for your critique and thank you for being a Fenix Fan!

It's alarming that such a poll even exists. What else do you expect in the resulting numbers? It goes to show how disconnected with the market Fenix is today.

The low mode is the most used for many people in many scenarios. Many applications demand it, bedside, in the tent, etc. Even in the tactical lights, you could want stealth hence low lumens. EDC lights? ~1lm below 5lm is a must.

It's for this reason I took a pass on Tk22 and several other lights.

And please allow flat-top 18650s in UC35 and PD35! One shouldn't need to worry about what battery to put in. Tools should just work. It's crazy Fenix won't take unprotected cells and Zebralight won't take protected ones...
 

DayofReckoning

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Tint and Battery choice options have been brought up, and they are legitimate concerns, and things we all would love to see change. But let's try to keep the thread on the issue on the low mode brightness if we can please.

Fenix has a history of having low modes that were kind of on the high side. However, this new crop of lights using 30 lumens (50 in some cases) as the lowest is "the straw that broke the camels back" for me as a long time Fenix fan. I think most will agree that between 5 and 20 lumens is the sweet spot for a good long lasting general purpose low mode. The 30 lumens they are using crosses over that threshold where it's just too bright, and doesn't offer long runtimes to boot.

I recall a post here where Fenix Store brought this to an engineers attention, and the response was something to the effect of "why would you want a low brightness setting on a bigger light?". Really? I don't understand this engineers logic.

Virtually EVERY other manufacturer is gravitating towards including lower and lower brightness settings, and Fenix, for whatever reason, is going the opposite direction. It's so frustrating, and just doesn't make any sense.

I don't believe the physical size or total output of the light should matter in the equation either. A dim, low mode is just as useful on a 10000 lumen monster as it is a tiny EDC.
 

ktsl

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In larger, duty type lights I don't necessarily see a lack of moonlight as a deal breaker; for me big lights are just for blasting lumens. Double digit low modes aren't much of a concern.

On the other hand, small EDC lights - 5 lumen low is acceptable, 1 lumen or less is ideal.

Is Tk22 a duty light? How many tk22's are bought to for duty, general usage, outdoors, and fan collection?

I agree for duty light 30lm low is ok. But does another ~3lm level hurt? For all of other usages 3lm would be very useful. Why taking it out?

Don't ask me to bring a secondary light just to have that ~3lm level. I don't want to drill two holes on the wall one for my bigger cat one for the smaller.
 

DayofReckoning

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Is Tk22 a duty light? How many tk22's are bought to for duty, general usage, outdoors, and fan collection?

I agree for duty light 30lm low is ok. But does another ~3lm level hurt? For all of other usages 3lm would be very useful. Why taking it out?

Don't ask me to bring a secondary light just to have that ~3lm level. I don't want to drill two holes on the wall one for my bigger cat one for the smaller.

New Fenix TK06 coming out. Lowest level? 50 Lumens. I just don't know what they are thinking.

https://fonarik-market.ru/fonar-fenix-tk06-luminus-sst20-l4/
 

ktsl

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New Fenix TK06 coming out. Lowest level? 50 Lumens. I just don't know what they are thinking.

https://fonarik-market.ru/fonar-fenix-tk06-luminus-sst20-l4/

Sigh.

Maybe it's a marketing trick. By having the low to be 50lm it creates an image of power. Reminds me of some surefire models. This surely sounds dumb. But think about it - it may just work for the general public...

A flashlight Muggle may look at a Fenix with "3lm, 50lm, 300lm and 1000lm" and think "hmmm... another Chinese product... maybe 3lm is really what's it's good for and the rest are just hoax...."
 

Lynx_Arc

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I think a lot of people don't realize how bright a single digit lumen mode truly is. Ironically being brought up the first half of my life using incans mainly I should have a better grip on how useful low lumens can be but over the years of LED light use starting from dim 5mm to high output 80 lumen to now 1000+ lumens I sort of got used to NOT having a very low mode (lets call it VL mode) around 5 lumens. I think if the low gets too low you start having to wait for your night vision to operate and if too high it is more than needed and can in some cases annoy others on the receiving side of the light. I walk in dark places and a 5 lumen mode it nice till a car drives by and it takes a few minutes to readjust. A sublumen mode is useless when there is almost any light pollution at all in the area. The huge advantage of a VL mode is that compared to higher modes that are being used often it takes so low of power that the lumens are essentially FREE as you can run on VL mode for 100 hours which would probably only add a minute or two of high mode or turbo mode time.
 

ktsl

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I walk in dark places and a 5 lumen mode it nice till a car drives by and it takes a few minutes to readjust. A sublumen mode is useless when there is almost any light pollution at all in the area.

This is just one scenario you considered, my friend.

I use a small light to check on my baby at night. For this 1lm is perfect, since I don't want it to disturb my baby. LED lights are very bright, exactly what you've just said. If you look into the light, I bet you can barely withstand 5lm, and nothing more.

Another usage for ultra low mode is in the tent when camping. During the night it's pitch black out there in the wilderness. Even 10 lm will destroy my night vision, anything more just hurts. If you REALLY did camping before, you'd know.
 

DayofReckoning

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Do not discount how incredibly useful a very low mode is on big, giant, multi thousand lumen monster lights. Having the ability to read a map up close, or light it up inside of a car gives it incredible versatility.

I would argue that the low modes are even MORE useful on the large lights than they are on smaller ones.
 

longuylander

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It's nice to see Fenix listening! After this poll and thread of people saying how they'd love to see Fenix lights with lower low modes than 30 lumens, they release the new E28R with a low of ...30 lumens.

Oh, but wait! They have also recently released the E35 V3.0!! Thankfully that one has a low of ...50 lumens.

Um... never mind.
 

Eicca

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It's nice to see Fenix listening! After this poll and thread of people saying how they'd love to see Fenix lights with lower low modes than 30 lumens, they release the new E28R with a low of ...30 lumens.

Oh, but wait! They have also recently released the E35 V3.0!! Thankfully that one has a low of ...50 lumens.

Um... never mind.

To be fair those had likely finished development before this thread even started.

But I'll add my voice. For a light that could reasonably be used as an EDC, 30 lumens is WAAAAAY too bright for low mode. 5 lumens or less is a must for night use. Even then 5 lumens is enough to wake people if I have to navigate an occupied space in the middle of the night, so 1 lumen becomes desirable in that setting.

An excellent idea was brought up earlier in this thread: all lights should have 5 lumens tops as their low mode, but the smaller the light, the lower that low mode can go. 5 lumens on low would be fine for the PD36R or PD40R or some of the newer 18650/21700 laser cannons. For pocket lights like the PD25 and the E12 v2, a low mode of 1 lumen would be very appropriate.

And yes, in all cases, please entertain the idea of using neutral or warm emitters in all lights.

Other than that, thanks fenix-store for all you do! I'll be placing some orders here soon...
 

MaxIcon

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The E12 V2.0 and E20 V2.0 have 5 lumen low modes. I just got some E12 V2.0s for glove compartment lights, and that's an ideal level for me. I don't do much that requires 1 lumen or less these days, though, and since these are for non-flashlight family members, a moonlight mode would be something they wouldn't notice being on when they toss it back in the glove compartment!
 

DayofReckoning

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So, despite the risk of sounding like an old broken record here, I just want to bump this thread and add that, after shopping Fenix Store today, with the intent of purchasing several of your new lights, I found myself having to pass on light, after light, after light, because of this, quite frankly, hard to understand trend of Fenix using 30 lumens and 50 lumens as the lowest brightness. This is the total opposite direction of where every other manufacturer is going (offering lower and moonlight modes), manufacturers who happen to be listening to feedback.

I was forced to buy a model from 2016 today, because nearly every light you release has this problem.

Anyway, sounding like a broken record here. I just love the brand so much for so many years, that I'm frustrated that I'm forced to pass on your newer lights.

Maybe we can get enough feedback so that Fenix Store can pass off our community's thoughts to Fenix.
 

fenix store

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Thank you again for comments. We are sending this thread to Fenix again and ask if the engineers wanted to add anything to what everyone shared. When they respond, we will post comments here.

So, despite the risk of sounding like an old broken record here, I just want to bump this thread and add that, after shopping Fenix Store today, with the intent of purchasing several of your new lights, I found myself having to pass on light, after light, after light, because of this, quite frankly, hard to understand trend of Fenix using 30 lumens and 50 lumens as the lowest brightness. This is the total opposite direction of where every other manufacturer is going (offering lower and moonlight modes), manufacturers who happen to be listening to feedback.

I was forced to buy a model from 2016 today, because nearly every light you release has this problem.

Anyway, sounding like a broken record here. I just love the brand so much for so many years, that I'm frustrated that I'm forced to pass on your newer lights.

Maybe we can get enough feedback so that Fenix Store can pass off our community's thoughts to Fenix.
 

fenix store

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We have heard back from the Fenix engineers on this topic:

"This lowest brightness under 50 or 30 lumens are not supposed to be the setting for tactical or industrial or searching lights. So the customers should be talking about the lights for outdoors or EDC."

I looked up through our E, LD, PD series products and it turns out only the products of these series with max brightness of 1000 lm or lower than 1000lm, they have the lowest (eco/ low) brightness below 30 lm (usually 3lm or 5lm). Since the new Fenix products, especially those with high performance, are usually able to reach over 1000 lm, so you will find they are basically with the lowest mode at 30 lumens, or even 50 lumens.

However, our engineers do take this feedback into their consideration, and will make more lights that have the eco/low mode with lumens lower than 30 in the future E, LD, PD series products.

Thank you for the feedback and hope these information will help you. For any additional questions, please let us know."

We hope this further explains the settings Fenix incorporates in their lights.
Thank you for your comments in our Fenix community.
 

3_gun

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Can't really vote in this poll because I agree with both sides. Yes 30L and above is to bright to be called low & yes 5L is great to have for an 0 dark 30 potty run. This is one of the reasons I have & often carry more than one light. More important to me is the ability to pick where I start on the brightness scale. It's one of the reasons I can't & won't retire my LD10. Head fully tightened you get high, an 1/8 of a turn you get a 5L low. Memory is nice but it isn't as nice as being able to pick a start point w/o having to toggle thru several levels
 

fenix store

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Thanks for all the good discussion. We have sent this thread to the Fenix engineers to keep them informed of customer comments and to see if they have anything to add to the discussion.

Have a great 4th of July weekend!
 

fenix store

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The engineers have read all the updated comments. Right now, this is important to know:

You will see more lights in the E, LD series will have the moonlight (1lm) mode or PD series lights have the eco (5lm) mode applied in the future.
 
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