Fenix TK61vn (XM-L2, 4x18650/8xCR123A) Dedome Modded Review: BEAMSHOTS, RUNTIME+

NCRick

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Thank you both for the quick replies and the helpful information. I figured it was cheapest to buy direct but due to my current circumstances I'm not able to go that high right now (not that it isn't well worth it for the incredible upgrade). I just ordered a stock TK61 off Amazon.com for $129.99 and I get free shipping for being a Prime member. I figured that was a pretty good price and leaves room for mod fees later on.

Vinh - I will be sure to check out your link. If I have any questions or want a serious quote then I will send an email to discuss arrangements. Since I do have some money coming for a couple settlements and reimbursements maybe I can stick with the stock TK61 and try out one of your TK75vn models once I have a little better budget.

:thanks:
 
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Patt

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:party:Yess..ordered my TK61vn ... :devil: :rock: :p Can't wait to test that awesome thing...:D :grin2:
 
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radu1976

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Selfbuilt. could you please clarify something ?
According to your chart the TK61vn has 1,650 lumens on TURBO and 770 lumens on high. So HIGH would be about 47% of the TURBO so the lux on HIGH are about 280,000
According to the graphic though, HIGH seems to be about 60% of the TURBO - 210 vs 350 - so the throw would be 360,000 lux.
I am considering buying this light but I don't plan to use it on TURBO but on HIGH - much longer runtime and efficiency and safety reasons also -
What throw should I expect for when running on HIGH ?
Thank you !
 

TEEJ

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Selfbuilt. could you please clarify something ?

According to your chart the TK61vn has 1,650 lumens on TURBO and 770 lumens on high. So HIGH would be about 47% of the TURBO so the lux on HIGH are about 280,000


According to the graphic though, HIGH seems to be about 60% of the TURBO - 210 vs 350 - so the throw would be 360,000 lux.

I am considering buying this light but I don't plan to use it on TURBO but on HIGH - much longer runtime and efficiency and safety reasons also -

What throw should I expect for when running on HIGH ?

Thank you !


I don't think the two charts are related in that way to each OTHER though....they are relative scales, for the indicated set of parameters.


A point to consider...the throw was measured, your numbers are based upon an interpretation of a chart. Typically, empirical date is superior to interpreted data.


The bottom line, for you, should be the distance you need to see what at.

IE: What range did you want to be able to resolve what at? ( A guy in white requires very little lux compared to a guy in dark clothing, etc)

:D

Give the range and target example that would illustrate what you need.
 
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selfbuilt

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According to your chart the TK61vn has 1,650 lumens on TURBO and 770 lumens on high. So HIGH would be about 47% of the TURBO so the lux on HIGH are about 280,000
According to the graphic though, HIGH seems to be about 60% of the TURBO - 210 vs 350 - so the throw would be 360,000 lux.
As TEEJ pointed out, actual measures are better than inferred estimates. But generally, the percent lumen change is a pretty good indicator of the percent beam distance change.

The reason the graphs look different is the relative scale of my lightbox is not linear to lumen output. The lumen estimates in the table are relatively consistent - stick with those. If you follow the link in my methodology section, you will see some formulas to help you convert the relative output values of the lightbox.
 

Vlk

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Selfbuilt,
Is it safe to use unprotected Panasonic 18650 in it? What about IMR and Samsung INR ?
 

selfbuilt

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Thank you, Vinh. That's important to know. Personally, I prefer to use Panasonic NCR18650A 3100 mAh industrial whenever possible, and SureFire 123A. I just have more faith in them.
Yes, unprotected cells are safe in this light - but only because the circuit steps down, warning you when battery voltage is low.

As a general rule, I don't see an advantage to using unprotected ICR cells in any light (other than maybe cost). You are always better off using protected versions, when available. Of course, that is different for high drain lights that need IMR/INR (but this isn't one of those).
 

RemcoM

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These are good points - as is the issue of variability of manufacturer warranty support. On that earlier point, my goal was simply to point out that manufacturer warranties are null and void by modding - if that matters to the end user. As always, I leave it up to the consumer to decide what features of a light matter to them (which is why I generally don't "recommend" lights here, or provide a value ranking scheme).

As for the latter point, in the interest of being balanced I've amended my two comments in the review as follows: (italics showing the addition)

"Long-term reliability of any modded light is unknown, but it stands to reason the modifications for maximum performance here could shorten component life span (especially on the dedomed version). That said, Vinh also shores up a number of circuit components during his mods, which may increase overall useable lifespan of the light. Of course, modding voids all manufacturer warranties, but I understand that Vinh stands behind his products."

and

"So what is the downside to doing this? Well, modding obviously voids all manufacturer warranties, and tweaking all the components may shorten their lifespans (although by the same token, Vinh also upgrades internal components, and corrects potential stock issues). ... That said, in my experience the vast majority of LED flashlight failures are due to circuit components, not emitters - and I understand that Vinh stands behind his mods."

:wave:


Yes, this is very good point as well - and I agree in principle. If you have an LED rated with a lifetime in the tens of thousands of hours (as most of them are), a slight reduction in that lifespan is immaterial.

However, I would point out that that lifespan is only an estimate, based on a much lower testing requirement by the TM-21 standard. I am not sure off-hand for this emitter, but I believe it is generally only a few thousand hours (at a relatively low current) that actually gets measured by the manufacturers for each new model. Still, I agree it is likely to be immaterial - other circuit components will likely fail long before the emitter does.

But I also need to consider in my assessment that the relative risk of dedoming is largely a giant unknown (i.e., it could have a much greater impact on emitter degredation). As such - much like warranty comments - I feel I would be remiss if I didn't at least draw the end users attention to this matter, so that they can make their own assessment of the relative risks.

That said, my "gut impression" is that if a dedomed emitter functions stably for the first few hours of continuous use, it is probably not going to be an issue in the regular lifetime of the product. To use a parallel, this is why (in my younger days) ;) I used to "burn in" all my over-clocked computer equipment with several hours of hard-core torture testing with limited cooling. If the parts didn't experience errors under those conditions, they were likely to be fine for the estimate lifetime of regular use at the elevate clock speeds/timings.

Just to be clear - I don't take any of the community comments above as challenging in any way - I think it was fair to raise them. I don't mean to be overly verbose, but it is just that this is my first review of a commercially modded light, and I want to make sure everyone can see my reasoning and understand where I am coming from. All points of view are welcomed here. :wave:

Hi Selfbuilt,

1 What do you mean, with anti glare coating on the TK61? The light comming from the TK61 is blinding off course at high settings, so it have alot of blinding glare.

Please explain.

2 For how long can the Led produce 170000 cd on the stock version? Before the led gets used and old?

Some years, with daily using, for some short/long moments on turbo?

Remco
 

Vlk

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Yes, unprotected cells are safe in this light - but only because the circuit steps down, warning you when battery voltage is low.

As a general rule, I don't see an advantage to using unprotected ICR cells in any light (other than maybe cost). You are always better off using protected versions, when available. Of course, that is different for high drain lights that need IMR/INR (but this isn't one of those).


Thank you, Selfbuilt.
Besides cost those and other Panasonic give you a better runtimes and they are fully made in Japan not assembled in China. One of AW 3100 protected failed me, by the way, after a short time - the wrapper started coming off. And I didn't do anything wrong, just was using it in my Armytek Viking which is not really hard on batteries.
 

selfbuilt

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Remco,

Anti glare refers to the coating on the lens. Like glasses, higher end ones come with an anti glare coating, cheaper ones don't. The TK61 has one. It is believed to help with direct transmission, but I have no data on the subject, and can't comment further.

As for the LED, I again have no data on rate of decay. I simply point out the obvious that heavily driven and dedomed emitters may have a shorter lifespan.

Thank you, Selfbuilt.
Besides cost those and other Panasonic give you a better runtimes and they are fully made in Japan not assembled in China. One of AW 3100 protected failed me, by the way, after a short time - the wrapper started coming off. And I didn't do anything wrong, just was using it in my Armytek Viking which is not really hard on batteries.
Hmm, well, it is the same core made in Japan cell regardless of where the protection circuit comes from. I would be surprised if there were so much overhead from the circuit to reduce runtimes very significantly, but others here would know more if they have tested it (like HKJ).

I agree that a damaged wrapper is a real bummer on an otherwise new cell. You can replace it, but I agree it is an extra annoyance.
 

Vlk

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Remco,

Anti glare refers to the coating on the lens. Like glasses, higher end ones come with an anti glare coating, cheaper ones don't. The TK61 has one. It is believed to help with direct transmission, but I have no data on the subject, and can't comment further.

As for the LED, I again have no data on rate of decay. I simply point out the obvious that heavily driven and dedomed emitters may have a shorter lifespan.


Hmm, well, it is the same core made in Japan cell regardless of where the protection circuit comes from. I would be surprised if there were so much overhead from the circuit to reduce runtimes very significantly, but others here would know more if they have tested it (like HKJ).

I agree that a damaged wrapper is a real bummer on an otherwise new cell. You can replace it, but I agree it is an extra annoyance.

Viking standard cool white gave me 10 minutes more on max with Panasonic NCR18650A 3100 than AW 3100 protected that uses the same cell. I tested them from max to the lowest setting not to flickering. Now, for most of us under most circumstances 10 minutes difference is not much. But I do tend to view flashlights as emergency and survival tools, so additional ten minutes of light is important to me.
 

thedoc007

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Viking standard cool white gave me 10 minutes more on max with Panasonic NCR18650A 3100 than AW 3100 protected that uses the same cell. I tested them from max to the lowest setting not to flickering. Now, for most of us under most circumstances 10 minutes difference is not much. But I do tend to view flashlights as emergency and survival tools, so additional ten minutes of light is important to me.

Well, that doesn't really say anything about the general quality of one brand versus the other. Are the cells the same age? Do they have the same number of cycles? Has one been stored in a different environment? HKJ has found fairly consistent performance across a variety of brands. The cell inside is what mostly determines the performance...the protection circuit will likely influence the amount of current it can deliver, but it shouldn't influence the runtime much.
 

Vlk

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Well, that doesn't really say anything about the general quality of one brand versus the other. Are the cells the same age? Do they have the same number of cycles? Has one been stored in a different environment? HKJ has found fairly consistent performance across a variety of brands. The cell inside is what mostly determines the performance...the protection circuit will likely influence the amount of current it can deliver, but it shouldn't influence the runtime much.

They were bought new at the same time from reliable sources, tested after a few cycles on each. I have four unprotected Panasonics and couple of AWs. All Panasonics give longer runtimes on Max and High, about the same on Med and Low. Same results with Armytek Predator standard. Convincing enough for me, not to mention that they are half the price. I might try Redilast and Orbtronics later, maybe.
If I later get this light from Vinh, I will push it hard. Not ten minutes on Max, thirty minutes at least. If it gets too hot to hold -I'll just use gloves. High performance light should be able to hold its own, within reason.
 

thedoc007

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They were bought new at the same time from reliable sources, tested after a few cycles on each. I have four unprotected Panasonics and couple of AWs. All Panasonics give longer runtimes on Max and High, about the same on Med and Low. Same results with Armytek Predator standard. Convincing enough for me, not to mention that they are half the price. I might try Redilast and Orbtronics later, maybe.
If I later get this light from Vinh, I will push it hard. Not ten minutes on Max, thirty minutes at least. If it gets too hot to hold -I'll just use gloves. High performance light should be able to hold its own, within reason.

Ok, good to know. I've avoided AW anyway due to the price - there are LOTS of choices for quality Panasonic cells at this time. No reason to pay $20 per cell. I am surprised by those findings, but if it is consistent across several cells, I don't doubt they are under-performing for some reason.

I'd be careful running the TK61vn continuously on turbo, in a warm to hot environment, especially without at least some air moving over it...wouldn't be a problem walking, most likely, but if you want to tailstand it, you may well burn out the driver. Manufacturers limit the current on stock light for a reason...but good luck!
 

Vlk

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Ok, good to know. I've avoided AW anyway due to the price - there are LOTS of choices for quality Panasonic cells at this time. No reason to pay $20 per cell. I am surprised by those findings, but if it is consistent across several cells, I don't doubt they are under-performing for some reason.

I'd be careful running the TK61vn continuously on turbo, in a warm to hot environment, especially without at least some air moving over it...wouldn't be a problem walking, most likely, but if you want to tailstand it, you may well burn out the driver. Manufacturers limit the current on stock light for a reason...but good luck!


Yes, of course I meant while walking, riding a boat etc. And I wouldn't push it hard intentionally, well, maybe once just to make sure it works. But again, this should be a hell of a light for great outdoors if the weight is not a problem. A mile of light from a not so big flashlight...
 

Vlk

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Yes, unprotected cells are safe in this light - but only because the circuit steps down, warning you when battery voltage is low.

As a general rule, I don't see an advantage to using unprotected ICR cells in any light (other than maybe cost). You are always better off using protected versions, when available. Of course, that is different for high drain lights that need IMR/INR (but this isn't one of those).

There is another reason to use unprotected ICR and IMR batteries whenever safe. It appears that protected batteries are more fragile, that's their protective circuit is fragile, and as a consequence of it the battery may fail under mechanical stress, even if the light is dropped on concrete floor from only one meter height. At least that's what people on HDS forum say.
 

TEEJ

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There is another reason to use unprotected ICR and IMR batteries whenever safe. It appears that protected batteries are more fragile, that's their protective circuit is fragile, and as a consequence of it the battery may fail under mechanical stress, even if the light is dropped on concrete floor from only one meter height. At least that's what people on HDS forum say.

It depends on the light they are in and the impact itself.

I've never had a protected cell knocked out by a fall....and some of the Fallen lights flew 30' or more, let alone a meter, etc.

It CAN happen, but it might be some cell protection parts are more fragile, and some are tougher. ..and some lights might cushion cell impacts better than others, etc.
 

Vlk

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It depends on the light they are in and the impact itself.

I've never had a protected cell knocked out by a fall....and some of the Fallen lights flew 30' or more, let alone a meter, etc.

It CAN happen, but it might be some cell protection parts are more fragile, and some are tougher. ..and some lights might cushion cell impacts better than others, etc.


Yeah, it's always a game of chance when the lights fly and hit something.
I wonder, how would this particular Fenix light and batteries in it withstand serious fall?
Maybe Selfbuilt or Vinh would like to experiment.
 
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