Firearm designer have fun learning flashlights......want to design new line of torch.

Craig K

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You could put knurling on Delrin correct? Maybe this would be a great material to make a flashlight?
 

Overclocker

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Greetings,

I have been a firearm designer for many years; which I take great pride in delivering innovative solutions. Recently, LED flashlights have caught my attention. I am amazed how much I really enjoy learning about this industry.

I have my heart set on designing new line-up of lights that will appeal to the greatest audience. My design ethos has been lightweight, modular, and true user benefit. Please point me in the right direction. Reflector? Optical lens? Batteries? Modes/Functions? LED emitters, Lumen OTF range needs? Adjustable focus? Throw? ETC.....

Please advise! Please be serious in your comments.


1) take the foursevens QP2L-X form-factor. it's just a great size for all-around use i.e. small enough to EDC yet fits in your fisted hand perfectly

2) now infuse some zebralight stuff into it: RECESSED side button for on/off and for changing modes. IMPORTANT! the UI must not suck. must have direct access to moonlight/low and direct access to MAX.

3) tail button must be independent and programmable. must have no stupid double/triple-clicks. must be silent but have good tactile feedback and a decent amount of travel. choices:
a) momentary-only at user-specified brightness (or user specified strobe frequency/brightness)
b) tap for constant on, hold for momentary (behave like Inforce APL) at user-specified brightness (or user specified strobe freq/brightness)

4) deep carry pocket clip that's securely mounted via screws on lock-ring. no cheap snap-on clips please. and must "land" on a flat part of the tube, not on knurling! titanium nitride coated, not painted black!

5) XML2 5000k. around 800 lumens. light OP reflector

6) 2x CR123A or one 16650 / 17670

7) titanium nitride coated steel bezel

8) battery meter, zebralight-style but 1 to 5 blinks

9) must have moonlight!

10) must not be overbuilt! must have just the right wall thicknesses. no unnecessary protrusions. function over form!

if you follow all my recommendations above you'll have a flashlight that excels in almost any application, optimal in BOTH edc and tactical roles
 
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Fireclaw18

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I am no expert but I think Carbon fiber or maybe even Delrin would be great to make a flashlight tube from, maybe just as strong as Aluminum if it was made thick enough, what do you guys think?

One reason LED lights are made from aluminum is that it helps to conduct heat away from the LED and vent it to atmosphere. High-powered LED lights do generate quite a bit of heat. If you make the flashlight body entirely of carbon fiber or Delrin it probably won't be able to heatsink the heat as efficiently as aluminum.

You could still have an aluminum head, possibly with heatsink fins to accompany your plastic body, but this limits the amount of heatsinking available compared to a light built entirely from aluminum. You'll either end up with a light that is bigger and bulkier than comparable all-aluminum lights, or one that has lower output that doesn't drive the LED very hard.
 
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Fireclaw18

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Some other suggestions and observations:
1. Most common LED light material is aluminum due to it's strength, cost and heatsinking properties. Some manufacturers have put decorative carbon fiber tubes around the flashlight bodies, but I'm not sure any have used carbon fiber for the base structure.

2. The most commmonly used functions in an EDC light are On, Off, Min (moonlight), Max... ideally, you'd want your interface to have shortcuts to all 4 of those functions. Lesser used functions including intermediate modes and blinky/strobes don't need shortcuts and can even be hidden.

3. If you want a tactical light for law enforcement use, then probably you just need a momentary high (only turns on while button is held down). Typically, tactical lights will use a tailcap switch. If the light is for police use, it may be helpful to have a low mode suitable for close in work, writing notes, etc.... but this mode can be harder to access.

4. If you're building an EDC pocket light with a sideswitch, try to make sure the switch is stiff enough and/or recessed enough that accidental pocket activation is unlikely.

5. Most flashlight enthusiasts on these forums seem to prefer neutral tints (4000-5000k) to cool white (6000k+). Cool white LEDs tend to be slightly brighter, but the colors may appear washed out, making it harder to see things outdoors. Neutral and warm whites may also produce a more pleasing looking light. I'd recommend sticking with a neutral white 5000k emitter.
 

corynewman

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Carbon fiber is a great dissipator of heat. However, resin is an insulator. I have a unique resin that supports dissipating the heat.

We have built carbon fiber wrapped barrels that go to 500 degrees F with no problem and you can touch the barrel within minutes. I am sure that carbon will be just fine for the light.

With carbon fiber you can make unique shapes with very thin walls......and still be stronger than aluminum. You guys are really getting me excited with this feedback. First design is well on its way. I'll need beta testers soon.



One reason LED lights are made from aluminum is that it helps to conduct heat away from the LED and vent it to atmosphere. High-powered LED lights do generate quite a bit of heat. If you make the flashlight body entirely of carbon fiber or Delrin it probably won't be able to heatsink the heat as efficiently as aluminum.

You could still have an aluminum head, possibly with heatsink fins to accompany your plastic body, but this limits the amount of heatsinking available compared to a light built entirely from aluminum. You'll either end up with a light that is bigger and bulkier than comparable all-aluminum lights, or one that has lower output that doesn't drive the LED very hard.
 
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APGIllini

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Could you combine your carbon fiber wrap with a more resilient outer wrap, maybe Dyneema or Nomex?
Is the resin epoxy based, or some type of thiophene?
I appreciate that CF is stiff, but wonder how it would hold up with the minor but persistent insults of frequent handling. Good luck with the project.
 

lightfooted

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Some things I prefer and would like my lights to do.

1) Momentary on is a necessity when being used in conjunction with a firearm. In general I also prefer all my lights to have this option.

2) Water-proof and durable

3) Would like to see a secondary switch or selector that would cycle through low-med-flashy (in that order) modes but when the tail-cap was pressed, it went to max output over-ride and then OFF once released.

4) Can use Li-Ion or standard type cells (123A and AA) and still have high output. Excellent regulation on either.

5) Keep it within the size envelope of a SF 6P with a "cigar ring" in rubber.

6) Make it modular so that original buyers can upgrade just the LED emitter if they choose to a few years down the road instead of having to buy a whole new light when their existing light works fine.
 

Fireclaw18

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Carbon fiber is a great dissipator of heat. However, resin is an insulator. I have a unique resin that supports dissipating the heat.

We have built carbon fiber wrapped barrels that go to 500 degrees F with no problem and you can touch the barrel within minutes. I am sure that carbon will be just fine for the light.

With carbon fiber you can make unique shapes with very thin walls......and still be stronger than aluminum. You guys are really getting me excited with this feedback. First design is well on its way. I'll need beta testers soon.

Excellent! I know of no manufacturers who make flashlight bodies entirely of carbon fiber with heat conductive resin. If this works, and is superior to aluminum, it could be a significant competitive advantage.
 

Javora

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Carbon fiber is a great dissipator of heat. However, resin is an insulator. I have a unique resin that supports dissipating the heat.

We have built carbon fiber wrapped barrels that go to 500 degrees F with no problem and you can touch the barrel within minutes. I am sure that carbon will be just fine for the light.

With carbon fiber you can make unique shapes with very thin walls......and still be stronger than aluminum. You guys are really getting me excited with this feedback. First design is well on its way. I'll need beta testers soon.

Two more suggestions. For switches, take a look into the computer keyboard market. They are using Mechanical Key Switches that have a very long life span. Also take a look at the motherboard/CPU heat sinks, that market is very mature and may be able to give you some ideas on heat dissipation. I'd love to take a shot at beta testing, especially if you come up with a programmable USB tail cap. I actually majored in computer science in college, so testing something that simple shouldn't be much of a stretch. Hope this helps.
 

corynewman

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Thank you for all the help. I am working on many of the details suggested.

i am writing and programming the IC on my driver with an Aduino board. I am trying to figure out how to be able to do this function in a simplistic way at user level......big challenge.
 

gratmars

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I want the ability to momentarily activate the light more than once without worrying about changing modes. But I also want a way to change modes, the mode changing should be foolproof and never fail. Magnetic switches IMHO, should not be used on a serious light, there's just too much going on. How about group 1 and 2 which can be changed by tightening or loosening the head. Then, if you want group one to contain either max only or multiple modes ( same with group two but with a low or multiples modes) you can choose between two options by a series or head turns while the the head is on similar to what eagletac except give us a single mode in group one if we want.

Make it 18650 compatible, and offer different body lengths so one can use a single 123, 18650 or multiple of either.

High quality deep carry clip

Compact head

Super high quality forward tail clicky

USB programming would freaking rock. But not if I have to cover the port with a rubber cap, I agree with the previous poser about exchangeable tail caps.

Aluminum body, stainless or titanium front bezel.

Super tough coated glass.

Cigar style ring but make it thread on and be solid.

Make sure it doesn't get thick too soon so that I can still grasp it with my full hang without the fat head being under my pinky.

Don't overdrive it and please offer in neutral.

Warning flash when battery has 25% capacity remaining.

Keep the price reasonable. Low $100 and you'll sell an absolute ton.

Keep production in the USA and you can easily charge a 20% premium.
 

bpollard

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Aug 7, 2011
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From my experince shooting in Australia, you need a narrow beam with big throw (aspheric head), mounted to the rifle. But, to find the game in the first place, you first need a large light (we use a Fenix TK70) with massive throw, but over a larger angle (reflector). Now i undertsnad you couldn't combine both, but maybe design 2 light with 2 different purposes.
how about a new stock with a battery built into the butt, connected to your torch?
 

Javora

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Thank you for all the help. I am working on many of the details suggested.

i am writing and programming the IC on my driver with an Aduino board. I am trying to figure out how to be able to do this function in a simplistic way at user level......big challenge.

Bubble sorting the options might be the most user friendly way to do that. The users can see the options that they want first "float" to the top. Then add a check box column to disable each function they might not want. You can even add a second column for the press and hold option on the tail cap. Remember, it will only have a few options so keeping it simple will be easy. The users will appreciate that more.

Edit:

Drag and drop the options they want to arrange the order of operation. Most people are used to that type of operation now. Options that are disabled can automatically drop to the bottom. For PC's try to program this so that it won't need a install disk. This way the program starts as soon as the cap is connected to the PC. For other devices (cell phone/tablet) they will probably have to download an app.
 
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Joys_R_us

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6) There is really no need to make the light focusable. Most good lights come with a proper focus setup right from the factory.



OH YES, I love my Ledlenser M1 EDC. Focusing makes a light lightweight, you have much more throw then you would otherwise have with such a small light.

PS: becoming a flashoholic I already ordered a ZL SC600. But I still think, focusable lights have their own merits...
 
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Fireclaw18

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OH YES, I love my Ledlenser M1 EDC. Focusing makes a light lightweight, you have much more throw then you would otherwise have with such a small light.

PS: becoming a flashoholic I already ordered a ZL SC600. But I still think, focusable lights have their own merits...

I like both types of lights. However, focusing lights have a few problems
:
(1) The best focusing mechanism is restricted by patent. LED Lensers work by having a single piece optic containing a small aspheric lens in the center and a TIR at the sides. The back of this reflector/lens isn't flat.. instead it has an opening for the LED to recess into. Furthermore, the LED itself doesn't sit on a conventional star... instead it's on a small pillar that allows it to fit into the opening on the back of the optic. This focusing mechanism works great.... because the optic completely surrounds the LED in both flood and zoom positions, almost no light is wasted into the sides of the bezel and the light has substantially the same lumen output in all positions. But there are 3 problems with this:

a. The patent on this zoom mechanism is held by LED Lenser and they are very aggressive about defending their patent.
b. The optic and LED mounting require specially engineered components. You won't be able to find the parts from off the shelf components like you can for other lights.
c. Zoom lights work best when used with LEDS that have high luminance (lumens per square mm). The more concentrated the light source, the tighter the zoom. The most powerful LEDs commonly used in flashlights typically have larger LED dies with lower luminance (they make up for the lower luminance by having larger areas so overall they produce more light).

So in a small zoom light you can select a small LED with high luminance to get great throw (such as a CREE XP-E2), or you can select a large LED with low luminance and get great flood (such as a CREE XM-L2), or you can select something in the middle (CREE XPG2) and have mediocre flood and throw. But because you can only select one LED, you can't really have both great flood AND great throw in the same small package.

(2) Off-the-shelf zoom components typically consist of an aspheric lens mounted in front of the LED. Because the lens at the focal point is usually much narrower than the width of the beam coming out of the LED, a huge amount of the light is not gathered by the lens and is wasted into the sides of the bezel. The result is in spot mode anywhere from 50% to 75% of the total lumens might be lost.

(3) It is very difficult to make a zooming flashlight waterproof. Cycling the zoom usually changes the internal volume of the light. This changes the air pressure inside the light. Air pressure equalizing then causes the bezel to automatically extend or retract into whatever position it was in when the battery compartment was sealed. The only way to stop this is to have a VERY stiff zoom mechanism that requires 2 hands to cycle.
 
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Fireclaw18

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To the original poster: For the light that you are designing... how do you envision it being used?

Is it meant to be a tactical light meant for law-enforcement use?
Is it meant to be a weapon light?
Is it meant to be a pocket EDC (EveryDay Carry) for civilian use?

Is it meant primarily for short range use or do you want it to have throw for seeing things at long range?
How important is it to have good flood and/or throw?
How big do you want the light to be?
Do you want it to be very reliable with long runtimes?
Do you want it to be a "pocket rocket" capable of very output at short runtimes? (but also with lower modes for longer runtimes)
Do you want it to be a general purpose light suitable for everything even if it doesn't excel at anything?

I think we'll be able to offer much more useful and focused suggestions if we know what you want your new light to do?
 

zespectre

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I want a series of modestly bright, LONG duration, lights that are designed as somewhat attractive wall mounts for power outages. Something you can put in stairwells and so forth that actually look nice. Most of what is out there now looks like you stuck a cheap, UFO toy on the wall.
 

dss_777

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To the original poster: For the light that you are designing... how do you envision it being used?

Is it meant to be a tactical light meant for law-enforcement use?
Is it meant to be a weapon light?
Is it meant to be a pocket EDC (EveryDay Carry) for civilian use?

Is it meant primarily for short range use or do you want it to have throw for seeing things at long range?
How important is it to have good flood and/or throw?
How big do you want the light to be?
Do you want it to be very reliable with long runtimes?
Do you want it to be a "pocket rocket" capable of very output at short runtimes? (but also with lower modes for longer runtimes)
Do you want it to be a general purpose light suitable for everything even if it doesn't excel at anything?

I think we'll be able to offer much more useful and focused suggestions if we know what you want your new light to do?

I think what he wants is R&D. ;)
 

BillSWPA

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Thank you for all the help. I am working on many of the details suggested.

i am writing and programming the IC on my driver with an Aduino board. I am trying to figure out how to be able to do this function in a simplistic way at user level......big challenge.

I am guessing that the challenge lies in getting a user interface that is friendly to non-programmers to mesh with the software that compiles the Assembly code and puts it on the light's microcomtroller?

My first thought would be to prepare complete Assembly code for multiple different configurations. Let the user select which complete configuration they want, and then download that set of code to the light.
 

corynewman

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I am attempting to develop a line of torches to meet the needs of multiple industries. I will start out with military/LEO, emergency response/survivalist, land trekers/geocashing, everyday home use. From there, I will spill out to all the other niches.

As for your other questions, that is what I hope to understand here in this forum.


To the original poster: For the light that you are designing... how do you envision it being used?

Is it meant to be a tactical light meant for law-enforcement use?
Is it meant to be a weapon light?
Is it meant to be a pocket EDC (EveryDay Carry) for civilian use?

Is it meant primarily for short range use or do you want it to have throw for seeing things at long range?
How important is it to have good flood and/or throw?
How big do you want the light to be?
Do you want it to be very reliable with long runtimes?
Do you want it to be a "pocket rocket" capable of very output at short runtimes? (but also with lower modes for longer runtimes)
Do you want it to be a general purpose light suitable for everything even if it doesn't excel at anything?

I think we'll be able to offer much more useful and focused suggestions if we know what you want your new light to do?
 
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