First impression and question Which will you carry? Lunasol 27 or Lunasol 20

[yaesumofo]

OK guys I received my Lunasol 20 (L20 from now on in this post).
It is a very nice light. The L20 really is the natural progression and evolution of the McGizmo XXX PD.

I like the size a great deal. slightly larger than a stock PD. Good.
The size is even better than that of the PD because the added length makes the light fit better in my large hands.
The action of the L20 is the best of any 20mm Pd's I have received. Buttery smooth out of the box.
IMHO this is the gold standard of smooth actions.

Quality of light? The NIchia emitters are more on the purple side than those in the L27. I prefer the tint coming from the emitters in the L27.
The hot/hi beam also has a more purple/cold/blue cast than I have become used to. In terms of sheer brightness I am very pleased with the little golden dragon. I am of the opinion that they have a way to go before making a perfectly tinted emitter. I am amazed by the tiny size of the emitter. The golden dragon emitter is a very interesting little device and it puts out a heck of a lot of light.

OK The obvious question is which of the two lunasols is better.
I am of the opinion that from a BEAM point of view there is no doubt that I prefer the L27.
From a does it fit nicely in your pocket point of view the L20 is a rocking little light.

I will personally be EDCing Both lights for a week or two with the L20 replacing my E1B in my current edc line up.

I will know more in a few days of actual use at work which is a better fit in my edc usage.

IMHO the L20 is a Marvel!!! Don has managed to create a fantastic next generation to the wonderful and extremely successful Piston drive series of flashlights.
Don My hope is that your driver issues go away and that you are soon in a position to produce the Lunasol 20 is the sort of numbers which will satisfy a hungry market.

Not everybody need a 200 lumen single cell light (Hell I do not find extremely bright flashlights all that useful anyway I have some scorchers and they stay at home most(99%) of the time.

From a pure utility point of view the Lunasol concept is a real winner. the levels are actually right in the neighborhood of perfect (I know I have asked for More Dynamic range before but I am talking about the pure utility of the Lunasol concept here) The Low side angle beam is extremely useful. In the end these lights are not about how pretty they are (BTW they are pretty as all heck) and not about how POWERFUL they are they are truly about how useful they are.
How useful is the light in your pocket?
Mine rocks.
Pictures to follow.
BTW Which will you carry?
Yaesumofo

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

Excellent post mofo! :thumbsup:

I agree with everything you stated pretty much. I love the size too. Like you this light actually fits in my hand better than the all time classic. (BTW, the original PD platform will always hold the number one slot in my heart :kiss

I spent about 15 minutes messing around in my backyard with the L20. It is cooler on both, wide and far. However, this is un-noticeable when used by its self. It looks pure white on far, and just slightly cool on wide.

For EDC, Don, you have hit a homerun!

I find the wide very useful and bright enough to walk home with, change the oil, or clean out the attic, etc. It is perfect for any upclose job.

The far beam has a greater diameter (Think wall hunting) than the L27 far beam. However, this is no thrower. The L20 is a give/take kinda light.

The Far beam is real nice, I like it alot. For 50 feet or closer, it puts out plenty of light for just about any task. It even reaches out to 130-150 feet easily (All be it a lil dim) with night adapted eyes, just dont expect a far thrower here. It kinda reminds me of a floody KL4 beam with a tiny hotspot. I hope that makes sense, it does to me.

Don, just to make you feel better, mine has nice machine marks on the head, it goes great with the Krytox smudge on my LS27 reflector. :nana:

Heres the bottom line, if I'm going camping, I'm grabbing the L27. If I'm going to dinner and a movie, I'm grabbing the L20.

All in all, one hell of a must have light for any McGizmo fan!

 

[jemab]

First impressions after a brief excursion outside before the mosquitos ran me back in:

I agree the tint is a little on the cool side for my tastes, but once I went beyond the walls to actual use it was fine.

PSM summed it up well. For camping/outdoors, I prefer the L27, but for edc, this one works!

Also a random observation:
When I opened the L20 up to put in a battery, I saw this

and immediately thought, "Don, you are a bleeder man! Lay off the coumadin!!"

Seriously, Don, I will send you some pink/ light mauve nail polish so you don't have to use that scare me blood red paint!!

All in all I say its a winner :thumbsup:

 

[yaesumofo]

I have been using the L20 this evening. The Hi beam is very impressive. PSM is on to something when he talks about how WIDE the beam is and how tight the hot spot is. The 12.5 mm (isn't that the size) reflector is rather interesting in that is is SO DEEP for it's width. Most of us are used to seeing reflectors with very different geometry. I guess the width to depth ratio is the same on both the L20 and L27 lights. It is an amazing design.
As predicted My wife likes the L20...I thought she would. To her any light with a soft or wide beam is a good light.

I did my best to NOT have any expectations of the L20. This is very difficult when you read so much about a concept and see images...The expectation I developed had to do with the wide angle / soft beam. With three emitters I expected it to be closer to the MULE in terms of beam quality. The reality is that the Lunasol's soft beam is a small soft beam.

One of my mules is a Cree based unit. the other is a Nichia (XXXX) I can't remember which but is was a Don built Light engine. The beam is a cooler.
Both produce quite a bit of light. Some how I expected more light and a wider spread than is the reality of the L20. The L20's soft/wide beam is just a little soft thrower..It has a nice little soft beam. It is a beam no doubt, and very soft. It is a superior beam for very close up work and I suspect it will work very well for photography of the macro variety.

I am sure that a lot of people will have quite a bit to say about these lights almost together than alone...
BTW My L20 doesn't have nearly as much and doesn't have the BLOOD red color nail polish Mine is a bit more on the ...well it aint blood red that's for sure.

My new L20 sort of reminds me beam wise of one of my older cool BIN Lux III's. Again and again I am surprised by the HIGH beam output. My L20 is a bright little sucker. OK I have not broken out the Meterman 631 (I can't find it anywhere and if it doesn't turn up soon will have to be replaced) Anyway My Lunasol 20 is possibly BRIGHTER than my Lunasol 27!!

The Lunasol's HIGH Beam's hotspot is thicker than the Lunasol 20's Beam. The Lunasol 27 definitely puts out more light overall but the L20 has a more concentrated tighter hotspot. That is how I see it anyway.

My Lunasol 20 warms up a little once on for a while.

Man the Titanium finish is amazingly smooth especially the head. Upon close examination with the 10x loupe the machine marks are finer on the Lunasol 20 than they are on the Lunasol 27. This translates to a very smooth feeling titanium light. the flutes are fantastic and give everything you need grip wise. and they look great...Form and function.

OK that's it for now I will take c couple of pictures tomorrow on the set of the L20 and L27.
BTW as a pair they make a very nice set of lights. As Don said they likely will find their own niche.
It seems to me that having both lights makes more sense than having just one or the other.
It is sort of like only buying one piece in a set of wrenches. You really need the set to be able to make full use of them... I know that sounds crazy. IMHO Lunasols belong in sets. (this opinion could change) It is just that when I put these two lights together they look great !
OK I am going on a bit sorry.... Normal for me when I get a new McGizmo titanium beauty.
Yaesumofo

 

[souptree]

My first impression is that I prefer the 27 to the 20. But that is exactly what I expected.

I am actually more intrigued by the Mule vs. LS20 and PD-S vs LS20 matchups. To me the tradeoff question isn't so much about 27 vs 20, but rather trading the high on the Mule for the high on the LS20. Is a higher output Mule beam better indoors? And if outdoors, would a throwier light than a LS20 make more sense?

I have EDC'd my LS27 every day since I got it and although I am still carrying it all the time, I have had moments where it was a little big for a pocket. When I yanked the LS20 out of the package with glee, I thought to myself "hey, I forgot how nice and trim this form factor is" but when I compared their output side by side, I felt the way I felt comparing the S27-PD to the PD-S. I guess I am just partial to those bigger reflectors once the light is actually turned on!

I also find the tint very cool for my tastes, and I wonder if I'd be more pulled to the 20 if it was a warmer tint. Since what I'm illuminating tends to be greens, reds and browns, lights towards the bluer side of white tend to flatten the scene.

In any event, both of these lights are amazing and I think to a very large extent, which is "better" is just about personal taste, preference and intended usage. My guess is that my preferences notwithstanding, most people will prefer the LS20 to the LS27. One thing that I do NOT think there will be much disagreement over is that these lights provide a remarkable amount of technology in a tiny form factor. Great job, Don!

 

[Joseph Milton]

Alright guys,

You are making me jealous with all the LS27 vs LS20 write-ups. If anyone wants me to compare the two, just send an LS20 here to Illinois, I'll put it up against the 2 LS27's that I own, I'll give it a thorough test, and ship back your LS20. I won't charge you a dime!

Seriously, the LS20 sounds great. With the smaller head, it looks much more pocket-friendly than the flared LS27 head. I can't carry the LS27 with the body and head inside my pants pocket without it bulging! But the LS20 looks mighty pocket worthy.

If anyone wants to trade an LS20 for an LS27, I have a spare LS27, so if you want to make me happy...!!! Otherwise, well, I am damn happy that I have the two LS27's. They are truly spectacular!!!

Joseph

 

[McGizmo]

Hi guys,
The feedback and comments are illuminating but no real surprise fortunately. Fortunately because it seems that my take has been echoed by others so maybe I'm not that far out in left field.

I would like to add a couple comments and observations. The Nichia 310CS LED's do have a wider viewing angle that the Nichia 310DS. In the LunaSol 20 where the Nichia's are relatively "choked" by virtue of being recessed and close to the perimeter of the head, I am not sure the CS would enjoy the freedom it has in the LunaSol 27. I think the DS has a clearer shot at getting most of its light out the front end. Some of you will notice a bit of a trianglar spill up close and on a white wall and this is due to the physical constraints placed on the DS in its host. The relatively small head of the LunsSol 20 and the cramped conditions of the LED's I believe lends favor to the selection of the DS over the CS. The DS also has an efficiency advantage in that it typically has a lower VF than the CS. My gut tells me that the CS and DS are similar in flux output but with the narrower viewing angle of the DS, it wins on the lux contest. Running at a lower VF also gives the DS line honors on efficacy.

Although the viewing angle of the DS is less than the CS, it is still, IMHO, a flood beam and the distribution of light is fairly even without any central hot region. There are obvious differences between the CS and DS and although I don't know this for certain, I would guess that the CS used in the LunaSol 27 is of B1 bin and I know for certain that the DS used in the LunaSol 20 is of B2 bin. These different bins could explain the tint differences. Differences between the 310CS and 310DS are slight when you compare these LED's to the other lamp style LED's and typically in comparison to the 5 mm LED's. Most of the lamp style LED's used have much narrower viewing angles and their beams are more collimated and subject to artifacts. Additionally, in most flashlights, the lamp LED's are overdriven and their tint and color temperature are effected as a result.

The beam of the Dragon behind the McR-12R reflector has been compared to the SF L4 beam but with a smaller spot. The McR-12R was designed for the luxeon Rebel and a rebel behind this reflector has a beam pattern closer in distribution to the L4 with a noticeably larger spot diameter and I suspect one lower in lux than that of the Dragon. This is by virtue of the die size differences between the Dragon and Rebel. The Dragon has a smaller die than the Rebel even though its package is much larger than that of the Rebel. A 100 lumen Rebel has more flux than the Golden Dragons used here but with the 80 lumen Rebels which are now getting out again, I believe there is for the most part parity between the Dragons and Rebels in terms of flux. For other reasons as well, I plan to stick with the Dragon in the LunaSol 20 for the balance of the first set and for the next set should I see a clear path in moving forward with a next set.

I mentioned that I felt the color temp of the LunaSol 20 was cooler than that of the LunaSol 27 and this seems to be the consensus coming from the rest of you. When you are using a single light, the absolute color and tint are more quickly adapted to compared to when in the presence of another source. In the case of both LunaSol's the perception of tint is based more on the differences between the Nichias and the high power LED and the closer they are in color tint the less you are aware of tint. I.E. a warm nichia next to a cool Dragon would make you more aware of this difference. I have a LunaSol 20 proto with a warm Rebel LED and the contrast between it and the cooler Nichia 310DS is much greater and I think the balance between the Dragons used and the 310DS is closer and less obvious and distracting. Of course the lottery will always provide for exceptions both for better and for worse.

As to the subject of this thread and which will you carry, I believe the LunaSOl 20 by virtue of its smaller head is an easier light to carry in anticipation of use and for that reason, I plan to move forward with the 20 platform instead of the 27 platform. When the light is in hand and actually in use, I think the 27 has the advantage. However, as an EDC, the ease of carry is weighted heavily, IMHO. Most of us have many task specific flashlights which are best suited for particular illumination tasks and selected when those illumination tasks are planned or needed. I think the LunaSol 27 has more of a place here than as an EDC. :shrug:

 

[smokelaw1]

As to the subject of this thread and which will you carry, I believe the LunaSOl 20 by virtue of its smaller head is an easier light to carry in anticipation of use and for that reason, I plan to move forward with the 20 platform instead of the 27 platform. When the light is in hand and actually in use, I think the 27 has the advantage. However, as an EDC, the ease of carry is weighted heavily, IMHO. Most of us have many task specific flashlights which are best suited for particular illumination tasks and selected when those illumination tasks are planned or needed. I think the LunaSol 27 has more of a place here than as an EDC. :shrug:

I agree with everything you said Don, and especially this quoted part. The L27 is fantastic, and if I leave the house KNOWING I'll need a light, it will come with me. For EDC though, the L20 is just that much mroe "EDCable." Will it replace the PD-S? That remains to be seen...and I look forward to finding out and reporting on the results.

 

[Kiessling]

Another point to add: The spill of the Dragon in the LS20 is not that wide. And the hotspot not that small. It is just wider than a Cree in the LS27.
However, compared to a LuxIII (or Seoul) in an Aleph1 style head, it is still better collimated and has a bigger corona around the spot ... and thus a preferrable beam.

And ... it is the form factor making this light a winner. It has more chances of being there when you need it.


bernie

 

[yaesumofo]

Hi guys I took the Lunasol 20 (and the 27) to work today. I mounted the light on a lanyard and wore it around my neck for easy access (my normal mode of carry at work) I made some observations and here they are.
I noticed that in a primarily Tungsten lighting environment (normal on the set I am working on) The Lunasol 20 (with it's cooler color temperature) appears VERY nice and WHITE (vs the cooler bluish color I noticed at home where most of the ambient lighting is compact fluorescent)
The Golden dragon has a very nice tint IMHO when the ambient lighting is tungsten lighting. Try it out for your self.

I found the soft side beam to be very good for illuminating the writing tasks required of my job. I am not writing all the time but I do have to keep a sound report log and take regular notes. I found the soft side beam to be just the right brightness and tint for this task.

OK that's it for the work observations. The Lunasol is a fine little light. I personally do NOT see the comparison to the L4 as being accurate. My lunasol's beam does not resemble the beam any of the 4 5 or 6 KL4 based flashlights I have. The hot spot is just too tight. and the side spill is not bright enough IMHO. That is not to say the overall beam quality isn't really nice. I just doesn't look like the KL4 to me.

OK here is a bombshell. At least I think so.

I was fiddling with the L20 this morning and I found that If I backed off the head away from being ON the light would sometimes turn on. I noticed that when it did ONLY THE GOLDEN DRAGON would illuminate!!. OK it is/was intermittent. But for a while I was able to duplicate the effect.
I am not sure that golden dragons beam was the normal brightness but it was not bad at all. It would flicker a bit but I could adjust the head just so and it would stay on.
I like the idea of a regular, accessible mode where the Golden dragon emitter lights up by itself. I wonder if there is a way? maybe a second Kilroy?
Hell I don't know.
I am liking the Lunasol 20 a whole lot more tomorrow or later if I remember something.
Yaesumofo

 

[PoliceScannerMan]

For the record, I said it reminds me of a KL4 with a tiny hotspot.

The KL4 is way floodier, no doubt.

 

[skcheng]

I just received both the LS27 and the LS20. Both are great for different reasons. The LS27 imh(newbie)o, is more light. Bigger flood, brighter beam. But the LS20 is much lighter and fits in a pocket.

Which will I carry?? Neither right now.....too scared to put a scratch on my shiny new Ti toys. I'm sure that feeling will change over time and one of my LS beauties will see EDC duty. Probably the LS20. It even fits in my E1E Surefire holster.

 

[yaesumofo]

"I plan to move forward with the 20 platform instead of the 27 platform"
Don. I hope the L20 meets or exceeds the numbers of lights you sold when your focus was on the McLUXIII PD a fantastic light...Still to this day the PD is a great light.


I happen to agree that the Lunasol 27 maybe a better edc light with it's larger soft beam and a thicker Hotspot and with a nice warm Tints.

There is no doubt that (and I have said this before) the Lunasol Concept is a terrific direction for the next generation McGizmo flashlights to go in.

I will continue to EDC one or the other until my head says "The Lunasol 2X is the best one" to edc.

I am still amazed by how much is packed in the L20's head.
Thanks.
Yaesumofo

 

[yaesumofo]

Too bad. These lights beg to be used. What the heck good are they sitting in a drawer?
NONE.
Do yourself a favor and realize that the titanium used in these lights may devolop a slight patina (wear pattern) unique to Titanium over time (a long time). Almost nothing you can do to these lights will permemantly change them. All you would ever need to do is either bead blast or polish the light in the future depending of if you want a shiny or matte finish.
The Finish will allways look nice.
Do yourself a favor Carry and use your new lights they are meant for the pure utility of edc flashlight carry. Anything less is a disservice to your investment.
I bought a McGizmo light some time ago and stuck it into the drawer for like a year. What a waste. I should have just sold it to sombody who would use it (I ended up doing just that). I wasted a year on that light.
Don't make the same mistake I did.
Yaesumofo

I just received both the LS27 and the LS20. Both are great for different reasons. The LS27 imh(newbie)o, is more light. Bigger flood, brighter beam. But the LS20 is much lighter and fits in a pocket.

Which will I carry?? Neither right now.....too scared to put a scratch on my shiny new Ti toys. I'm sure that feeling will change over time and one of my LS beauties will see EDC duty. Probably the LS20. It even fits in my E1E Surefire holster.

 

[BigHonu]

Too bad. These lights beg to be used. What the heck good are they sitting in a drawer?
NONE.
Do yourself a favor and realize that the titanium used in these lights may devolop a slight patina (wear pattern) unique to Titanium over time (a long time). Almost nothing you can do to these lights will permemantly change them. All you would ever need to do is either bead blast or polish the light in the future depending of if you want a shiny or matte finish.
The Finish will allways look nice.
Do yourself a favor Carry and use your new lights they are meant for the pure utility of edc flashlight carry. Anything less is a disservice to your investment.
I bought a McGizmo light some time ago and stuck it into the drawer for like a year. What a waste. I should have just sold it to sombody who would use it (I ended up doing just that). I wasted a year on that light.
Don't make the same mistake I did.
Yaesumofo

I don't have either the LS27 or the LS20, but do have other Ti lights, and this is an excellent post!

 

[js]

Too bad. These lights beg to be used. What the heck good are they sitting in a drawer?
NONE.
Do yourself a favor and realize that the titanium used in these lights may devolop a slight patina (wear pattern) unique to Titanium over time (a long time). Almost nothing you can do to these lights will permemantly change them. All you would ever need to do is either bead blast or polish the light in the future depending of if you want a shiny or matte finish.
The Finish will allways look nice.
Do yourself a favor Carry and use your new lights they are meant for the pure utility of edc flashlight carry. Anything less is a disservice to your investment.
I bought a McGizmo light some time ago and stuck it into the drawer for like a year. What a waste. I should have just sold it to sombody who would use it (I ended up doing just that). I wasted a year on that light.
Don't make the same mistake I did.
Yaesumofo

Well said, Yaesumofo. Right on!

 

[Edwood]

Do yourself a favor and realize that the titanium used in these lights may devolop a slight patina (wear pattern) unique to Titanium over time (a long time).

Slight Patina? You mean scuffs and scratches, right? I didn't think that titanium alloys developed a thick enough oxidation on the surface to be visible like other metals that develop a patina.

 

[yaesumofo]

Call it what you will. With use the titanium surface devolops a new finish. dirt, grime, scratches, dings, oxides, grease, scuffs, can all be part of a new this new finish. As I said in the above post they are easily delt with.
Yaesumofo

Slight Patina? You mean scuffs and scratches, right? I didn't think that titanium alloys developed a thick enough oxidation on the surface to be visible like other metals that develop a patina.