First post--suggestion for cold weather emergency light

[funkymonkey1111]

Here's my first post--another annoying "help me chose" post, but here goes:

I'm building emergency car kits for my cars for use in Colorado. These lights hopefully will never be used, but if they are, they need to work and work well.

Given the "pack it and forget about it" approach here, coupled with the possible exposure to cold, I'm thinking a Surefire G2LED is the way to go--longer runtime than with a regular G2 (which I have also) and the long-life and cold resistance of the CR123 batteries. Of course, the kit will have a few sets of batteries in it as well.

I also plan to put one of those costco/rayovac K2 luxeon lights in the kit as well, plus a pile of batteries. I use one of these, coupled with a G2 (or G3) for walking my dogs before dawn and after dusk, and have been very pleased with it.

Please offer suggestions or pros and cons of my plans--thanks in advance.

 

[ACMarina]

Sounds like a good enough plan to me - lithiums for the cold, LED for runtime..

I don't know what the costco light is (haven't been to a costco ever) but if they run on AA or AAA, think about lithium primaries for those too..

Welcome to CPF!!

 

[funkymonkey1111]

sorry--one of these:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168138

 

[Gunner12]

If you want AA batteries and a lower price, the Fenix L2T V2.0 would also be good. High and low output. If you want to go even cheaper, there are also many other choices like the Ultrafire C3.

:welcome:

 

[sonofjesse]

Depends on the size light etc.

I think LED and Lithium batteries are good.

I like the P2D, but it maybe to small for your needs. I would store the battery somewhere so it wont' get accidently turned on or back the head of the flashlight head off.

 

[defloyd77]

Nitrolon also won't get cold like aluminum, I think the G2L would make an excellent choice.

 

[thermal guy]

fenix L2d with lithiums sounds good to me

 

[Spin]

Streamlight 2AA Led with yellow/black non metalic body. About 15 hours runtime on alkalines, 25 on lithiums. Lightweight & won't stick to your hands in the cold. Easy to load batteries in total darkness. My favorite 2AA light.

 

[Luminescent]

fenix L2d with lithiums sounds good to me

This is one of those situations where a simple (and actually less expensive) light may be the best bet.

The L2D is a good quality light, but a complicated multi-mode light is the last thing you want confusing someone in an emergency situation.

Also, some complex lights may not even be able function properly at temperatures below zero degrees Fahrenheit unless they were carefully designed to allow for the effects of temperature on the components. You might be able to get Fenix or Surefire to provide temperature specifications, but I doubt that these will guarantee operation below zero degrees Fahrenheit.

So in a tough cold weather survival situation, you might want to consider a light with a less complex driver circuit.

The simplest possible driver, is of course NO driver, but direct drive is stressful on lights under the best conditions and is not stable over temperature, so the simplest practical 'driver' circuit a flashlight can use is a simple current limiting resistor (typically used with three 1.5 volt batteries).

Many inexpensive lights that use 3 AA or 3 AAA batteries just use this kind of simple resistor circuit to limit current to the LED, and are unlikely to have problems. A simple resistor may change value a couple percent over a very wide temperature range, but is unlikely to fail even at a temperature of 70 below zero.

Some of the Dorcy lights might qualify as still using this very simple 3 x 1.5 volt battery and resistor circuit, and some other manufactures lights may also qualify.

I would run them on Eveready E2 1.5 volt lithium batteries which have a much longer storage life than alkalines, higher capacity, and outstanding low temperature performance.

This shoud give you a light which can be stored for years, with very high reliability when it is finally needed, even if it is picked up and turned on at 40 below zero.

This pelican light uses 3 standard alkaline C cells. Alkaline batteries will loose quite a bit of capacity and drive at low temperatures, but C batteries are large enough to still run the light at freezing temperatures for many hours anyway.


http://www.pelicanproducts.us/detailaspx352.html


As a final test I would test the lights you choose after several hours in the coldest deep freeze you can find to verify that they don't have electrical issues or mechanical issues when very cold. The o-ring lubricant used for the pelican light in the link above for example will have a tendency to get stiff at low temperatures, but there are special teflon and silicone low temperatue greases that will work smoothly even under the coldest conditons.

 

[xiaowenzu]

This is one of those situations where a simple (and actually less expensive) light may be the best bet.

The L2D is a good quality light, but a complicated multi-mode light is the last thing you want confusing someone in an emergency situation.

+1. I agree, the more complicated the light the more chance it will fail during an emergency, and trust me, you wouldn't want a 'micro-emergency' during an emergency.

As the majority have recommended here, I'd also select the G2L, mainly because it's NON-metallic. It's simple to use too. So even if you decide something else, at least get something Non-metallic, because they're designed for cold weather use. And put lithiums in them because they work wonders in cold weather and can be stored a very long time.

I'd still recommend the Surefire G2L, because it's well made by a reputable flashlight company.

 

[Luminescent]

Here's my first post--another annoying "help me chose" post, but here goes:

. . . and the long-life and cold resistance of the CR123 batteries.

SORRY, It turns out that all Lithium Chemistry's are NOT created equal.

Energizer L91 AA 1.5 volt Lithium batteries are Lithium/Iron Disulfide and standard CR123 batteries are Lithium/Manganese Dioxide

The energizer L91 AA lithium batteries have low internal resistance, a nice flat discharge curve, and continue to work incredibly well at low temperatures (and have a 15 year shelf life)

With any lithium cell the capacity is pretty high to start with, but with Lithium/Manganese Dioxide cells like CR123's you loose capacity like crazy at high loads (just like alkalines).

Actually CR123's were never intended for high drain flashlights, haveing been designed for lower discharge rates with only intermittent pulsed high current output. When it comes to low temperature operation, the intended low discharge applications are fine, but low temperatures will make the CR123 have even more problems supplying high current.

Look at this data sheet from the Energizer CR123:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/123.pdf

Or this one from the Duracell CR123:

http://www.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/123.pdf


Now here's the L91 Energizer AA 1.5 volt Lithium:

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf


Notice a couple things -

First; BOTH Energizer and Duracell CR123's are spec'ed for PULSE and NOT continuous operation at high currents. Of course Surefire and Fenix know MUCH more than the folks who MAKE these batteries (that's why sometimes their flashlight go BANG and blow to hell when the overstressed CR123's let go). Of course if you match your cells, and don't ride the 'Turbo' mode too hard, you can usually avoid problems.

Second; both Energizer and Duracell CR-123's start to look a LOT worse when used for high current applications at low temperatures.

Given that the Energizer L91 AA 1.5 volt Lithiums seem to have flatter output and better performance to start with and keep allmost all of that performance at low temperatures (and given that they haven't blown anyones flashlight to bits yet so far as I know), I think that I will have to give them my vote as best overall lithium flashlight battery. (I have to confess a certain prejudice here, one day one of the cells in a 2xCR123 light I have hissed at me, and since then I have never purchased another CR123 flashlight.)

EDIT:
Just one last note. As good as the Energizer L91 Lithiums are, they should not be used in most low drain applications, (like an MP3 player that runs 15 hours on one battery), unless low temperature performance or weight are prime considerations. This is not because they won't work well, they will work perfectly, it's just that plain inexpensive Alkalines start to work a lot better in low drain applications also, and so the capacity improvment will be much smaller and is generally not worth the much higher cost of the Lithium cells.

 

[Sgt. LED]

Nice post, I didn't know about the pulse drain intention of those 123 cells. I have yet to have anything happen to me yet thankfully. It's also good to see someone do research after a hissing 123 cell scares the poop out of them! Good work. Now just go a step further and make us all better cells will ya?

 

[drmaxx]

Not quite sure what kind of emergency you're talking about, but you might want to consider a headlamp. E.g. changing a tire with a flashlight in your mouth is just no fun.....
Get a good cheap AA headlamp and feed it with L91. E.g.: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=169690

While I am travelling I bring a EternaLight light for the car along (again fed with L91). The magnet works just great in a car for all sort of illuminatino needs in the car. Additionally, I like the flashing mode which is very well visible and draw some attention if you need it.

Just my 2 cents... Good luck.

 

[bigfoot]

Another vote here for a headlamp... maybe a Petzl e+Lite?

http://en.petzl.com/petzl/LampesProduits?Produit=607

They run about $29 or so. Waterproof to -1m, uses lithium coin cells with a long shelf life, doesn't take up much space in your kit, etc.

Or another option -- an Arc AAA Premium:

http://www.arcflashlight.com/arc-aaa.shtml

The newer, brighter "DS" version is out and runs $44.95 right now. The Arc comes with a small clip you could use to affix it to a cap to create a headlamp if you needed it. Also they work great on the Energizer lithium cells which would give you good runtime and battery storage life. Not to mention it is built like a tank.

 

[Luminescent]

Not quite sure what kind of emergency you're talking about, but you might want to consider a headlamp. E.g. changing a tire with a flashlight in your mouth is just no fun.....
Get a good cheap AA headlamp and feed it with L91. E.g.: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=169690

While I am travelling I bring a EternaLight light for the car along (again fed with L91). The magnet works just great in a car for all sort of illuminatino needs in the car. Additionally, I like the flashing mode which is very well visible and draw some attention if you need it.

Just my 2 cents... Good luck.

After my experence with the venting CR123, I did some research on 'battery explosions' with CR123. After that, trust me I would NEVER put a CR123 flashlight 'in my mouth'. My solution however was to dump all my CR123 lights and get some nice bright AA lights. As far as the headlamp goes, my little C-LE or even L0D is bright enough to light up the whole side of the car from a few feet back, I just prop them up on a little rock or something and am in business. But I agree that a headlamp is handy for working up under your car where you need your hands free.

 

[drmaxx]

As far as the headlamp goes, my little C-LE or even L0D is bright enough to light up the whole side of the car from a few feet back, I just prop them up on a little rock or something and am in business.

For these lights a niteize headband could work as well. I personally do not like this set-up - but others seem to have no problem with it and in an emergency sure better then nothing.

 

[Burgess]

to Luminescent --


Thank you for that info. :twothumbs


_

 

[Luminescent]

For these lights a niteize headband could work as well. I personally do not like this set-up - but others seem to have no problem with it and in an emergency sure better then nothing.

Yep, that thing looks geeky as hell with the mini-mag on the Nite Ize web site, but with a little light like Jetbeam C-LE or the Fenix L0D it would look much more 'purpose built' as a head light.

I glued a similar little velcro strap on my bicycle helmet, to accommodate my C-LE.

I could have gone with the L0D on the helmet, but the little Jetbeam C-LE is fine and gives more runtime and throws a bigger brighter beam.

Another great thing about the L91 Lithiums I mentioned above is that they are half the weight of NiMH (about 1/2 ounce for the AA L91 Lithium vs. just over an ounce for some NiMH batteries).

With a L91 Lithium battery the Jetbeam C-LE is feather light (around an ounce for the whole light including the battery).

If someone is looking for an incredible package for backpacking the little C-LE with a L91 Lithium batteries is a great ultralight combination. I carry a couple C-LE's and keep the tiny L0D and a couple L92 AAA's in my small fanny pack as a backup emergency light. If this sounds like overkill, BOTH C-LE's and FOUR L91 Lithium batteries are still only maybe half the weight of my old C-cell alkaline incandescent light. There are even higher output lights (some like the L2D RB100), but even the tiny C-LE has twice the throw of my old C-Cell light, with a much nicer beam. I like the fact that both the C-LE and L0D are multimode and use the SAME exact user interface MID, LOW, HIGH, STROBE, SOS (L0D lacks the C-LE's mode memory but other than that they are IDENTICAL). Some folks like to poo-poo the usefullness of the strobe functions on multimode lights, but that feature could save your life by helping you to signal a helicopter if ever caught in a Katrina type situation, where the weather turns nasty and visibility is limited.

Sorry for the rambling reply, I drifted a little from the original topic.

Thanks for the 'heads up' about the Nite Ize headband.

 

[jzmtl]

SORRY, It turns out that all Lithium Chemistry's are NOT created equal.

-snip-

So why do all the manufacturers chose cr123a then? :thinking:

 

[Luminescent]

So why do all the manufacturers chose cr123a then? :thinking:

All the manufactures? Thousands of times more flashlights using common AAA, AA, C, and D batteries are sold than all the CR123 lights sold by Fenix, Surefire, and every other CR123 manufacture combined.

Oh, I think I see now . . . You mean 'High Performance' flashlights (with 'High Performance' defined to include running on CR123's).

As to why Fenix, Surefire, etc. use CR123's. Lithium cells have higher energy density for their size and lower weight, and several years back the only option for a reasonably standard cylindrical Lithium cell was the CR123.

Now the new Lithium/Iron Disulfide Energizer L91 AA and Energizer L92 AAA batteries have the the same high energy density and the additional advantage of maintaining compatiblity with STANDARD AA and AAA batteries (and so far a better safety record).

Lights running on multiple CR123's can indeed be very bright, but they have a nasty tendancy to blow up if one cell is weaker than the others and vents. As I stated before, I have actually seen venting in one of my lights, and I didn't do ANYTHING you weren't supposed to do. (no mixing brands, or old and new batteries, or cheap off-brand batteries).

It looks like single CR123 lights have a better safety record, but they don't offer me anything worth giving up the advantage of my lights running on nice inexpensive standard batteries.

So I run AA's and AAA's and usually use NiMH cells, which offer great performance, cost almost nothing on a cost per cycle basis, and are Eco-Friendly because there is less waste. When I need more performance without recharging, I use Energizer L91 AA or L92 AAA lithium batteries.

Lot's of folks do use CR123's and swear by them, but if you are going to be one of them, you may want to read this thread.

123 Primary Lithium cell info/testing/links - CandlePowerForums