Fossil or renewable. What is the future?

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
599
Location
San Francisco
Oil will never go away. We NEED it to function.
Agriculture runs on oil. Fertilizers?

Healthcare? Plastics, including IV bags and syringes, all come from petroleum.

Electronics?

Homes?

I certainly think it's wise to consider ways to use less of it, BUT, we need to look at the TOTAL cost and consumption. My Mercedes luxo-barge, cradle-to-grave, including the oil and gas it will use in its lifetime, is more environmentally-friendly than a Prius. It actually uses less fuel than a Prius.
/rant ON
Manufacturers and politicians look the other way when it comes to the environmental impact of manufacturing and service life. Today's "high efficiency" air conditioners don't make sense in any sense. To get these high efficiencies, manufacturers use smaller compressors, larger thinner coils, and poorly-designed electronics. All of this leads to breakdowns and that it'll have to be scrapped long before older units would. Unlike HVAC systems of old, new ones are manufactured with parts and materials from all around the world. All of these are shipped multiple times across the oceans. Again, the environmental costs of this are ignored. Then there's the financial costs. I did the math. Even in Florida, a high-SEER system from the usual suspects (Trane/Carrier/Lennox/etc) does not financially make sense. The savings don't justify the higher price, not to mention higher-SEER systems have more complexity, so will break down more often and won't last as long. If it doesn't make sense in Florida, it's never going to make sense.
/rant OFF
I don't need it, but normal world functions would be in chaos if was stopped tomorrow. However there is hope.
Biobased plastics
These materials could include things like agricultural wastes, or even things like shrimp shells. These materials can be chemically transformed into plastics with the same properties as synthetic petroleum-derived plastics.
I used veggie oil to run my 240/300 and my Touring Diesel. Stopped because my garage and storage was taken up by 5gallon jugs and the City of San Francisco took my supply sources for MUNI. Switched to a Nissan Leaf. Much less hassle.
Shipping on water could be run on wind. The main reason for switching was consistency. With modern satellites to aid weather predictions it would make wind feasible. Ships are limited in speed by waterline length.
Steel can be made with hydrogen.
There is nothing that can't be done without petrochemicals. Fertilizer from humans must be used though.
Your delusion about you Mercedes is interesting. Beating a Prius.Ha ha. Beat a Leaf. The way I gently drove it I would get 5 miles per kwh. 33kwh in a gallon of gas. 5x33 is 165mpge. No oil changes, tuneups or smog tests. I will never go back to Petro, if for nothing else than the hassle of running on dead dinos. It's as much hassle as running a cell phone. Sold at 98k for half what I paid new. Still had 9 bars battery health.
Maintenance of equipment is a red herring. Devices that don't work are avoided by consumers, called out. People stop using them. Fossil fuel for electricity will be gone by 2035 because renewables are cheaper. Cheap, for the win.
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
599
Location
San Francisco
I do not trust info from the DOE, UN or Nat GO. They have become "woke" and place the environment agenda above truth.

G2
Come to reality. The truth is we are dying in waste we created by extraction of energy built up over millions of years. This can not continue. Woke is realizing it must stop. Not a political party. That's why we have donkeys and elephants to balance things out. Without limits all water would be pumped and all the fish in the sea would be gone. Human nature is the enemy.
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
599
Location
San Francisco
Just best to rely on existing technology that has been refined for many decades.... while still pursuing newer tech. that can be made viable decades down the road.
I already have switched. Viable now. Just do the math for your situation. Or it might become painfully obvious.
 

F89

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
1,656
Viable now, sure for you in your delusional little egocentric, narcissistic world.

You have no idea of the complexity and diversity of the world and its peoples.
You push simplistic, misguided, erroneous methods and insist those around you accept them as fact.
Science and truth need not apply in your tyrannical pursuit.

It astounds me that you continue so aggressively to peddle an agenda that can not and will not achieve what it is said to achieve.
That is to save the environment.
It will only assist to continue to damage the environment.
Is it less harmful? Depends who you ask.

Part of this agenda has a strong element of anti-human sentiment and I guess that's all part of it.
We'd need to go back to stone aged ways to reset the planet. Many would die, technology would fade and buildings crumble.
Eventually those that survived would settle or roam alongside all the other animals and the planet would begin to heal.

We simply don't have the technology to get ourselves out of the situation in a hurry.
No, your EV and solar panels are not going to do it.
Maybe your communist ideals might work? You can have the EV and solar panels whilst the masses live in mud huts and tend to the fields.

Have you ever really been out in the world? Have you ever seen what it's like?
There are so many social, economical and technological issues that are far too complicated and advanced for there to be any easy, pain free, completely effective solutions. Particularly ones that can be achieved quickly and without advancements in science and technology, which of course takes time.

Everyone who has bothered to try and engage with you has had something more truthful and reasonable to say than what you have.
In return you continue to browbeat and belittle. Your sentiments are strong with communism and totalitarianism.

In some ways I feel sorry for you but in others I feel there's a danger in your attitudes.
You highlight elements of why this bizarre social uprising of misguided woke agenda and communist sentiment is so dangerous and needs to be addressed, questioned and rationalised before the world is really broken.
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
599
Location
San Francisco
Viable now, sure for you in your delusional little egocentric, narcissistic world.

You have no idea of the complexity and diversity of the world and its peoples.
You push simplistic, misguided, erroneous methods and insist those around you accept them as fact.
Science and truth need not apply in your tyrannical pursuit.

It astounds me that you continue so aggressively to peddle an agenda that can not and will not achieve what it is said to achieve.
That is to save the environment.
It will only assist to continue to damage the environment.
Is it less harmful? Depends who you ask.

Part of this agenda has a strong element of anti-human sentiment and I guess that's all part of it.
We'd need to go back to stone aged ways to reset the planet. Many would die, technology would fade and buildings crumble.
Eventually those that survived would settle or roam alongside all the other animals and the planet would begin to heal.

We simply don't have the technology to get ourselves out of the situation in a hurry.
No, your EV and solar panels are not going to do it.
Maybe your communist ideals might work? You can have the EV and solar panels whilst the masses live in mud huts and tend to the fields.

Have you ever really been out in the world? Have you ever seen what it's like?
There are so many social, economical and technological issues that are far too complicated and advanced for there to be any easy, pain free, completely effective solutions. Particularly ones that can be achieved quickly and without advancements in science and technology, which of course takes time.

Everyone who has bothered to try and engage with you has had something more truthful and reasonable to say than what you have.
In return you continue to browbeat and belittle. Your sentiments are strong with communism and totalitarianism.

In some ways I feel sorry for you but in others I feel there's a danger in your attitudes.
You highlight elements of why this bizarre social uprising of misguided woke agenda and communist sentiment is so dangerous and needs to be addressed, questioned and rationalised before the world is really broken.
This has been decades coming. Ever increasing emissions standards internal combustion not possibly able to meet them. Hydrogen and hybrids won't do it. My brother who is as conservative as it gets, just added a battery to the solar panels he used to cool his Ramona, CA home and now has his house running all night on half a battery. Re charges in 4 hours. He now builds up credit instead of paying. Renewables so cheap they will drive out fossil fuel energy generation by 2035. Do you get a bulldozer and build your own road to Costco? No, you share roads, have insurance and socal security. Are you a communist for doing so? No. Society as a whole has decided clean air is preferred. Economic forces will finish the job, driven by science and rational thinking. In parts of the world there is no infrastructure, but they have cellphones charged by solar panels. Those in mud huts seem to have the best technology. Primitives hooked on porn. What is the world coming to?
 

raggie33

*the raggedier*
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
14,099
dont forget to be nice everyone i say this to my self to i can be a jerk i know but if we dont agree thats ok thats life but we can be nice
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,865
Location
Dust in the Wind
Things in 2035
IMG_5905.jpeg

Notice the gubment still using petrol to fly those patrol copters while checking on the peasants.
 

raggie33

*the raggedier*
Joined
Aug 11, 2003
Messages
14,099
dads hat i got thrown out of boot camp for being a idiot lo for real no matter how hard i tried i couldnt even march in stepl
 

F89

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
1,656
Big business and governments are driving the agenda.

Want clean air? Start by getting China to reduce the massive amounts of poison they pump into the atmosphere.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You'll have to give up those solar panels and your EV unless you're part of the communist elite that you appear so fond of.

Even if we all adopted the solar, batteries and EV like you and your brother it won't make a patch on what the big polluters of the world will continue to produce. Part of that pollution will be from producing your batteries etc.

We all want clean air but you need to be realistic on what and how this will actually be achieved rather than how you feel it will be achieved.

For now you can feel morally superior, if that appeases your conscience, because you drive an EV and run on batteries but in reality you're not.
I imagine your ecological footprint is likely excessive.
 

Toulouse42

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
295
Location
Jersey
F89 you make a lot of sense but you're talking to a brick wall. He/ she/ it has no interest in a conversation. It just wants to scream at you until you comply. I blocked it months ago and even so I " know" what it is saying from the irate responses. There' s a saying that to those of us who listen no explanation is necessary but to those who won't listen, no explanation is possible.
 

F89

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Messages
1,656
F89 you make a lot of sense but you're talking to a brick wall. He/ she/ it has no interest in a conversation. It just wants to scream at you until you comply. I blocked it months ago and even so I " know" what it is saying from the irate responses. There' s a saying that to those of us who listen no explanation is necessary but to those who won't listen, no explanation is possible.
You're completely right and I agree with you.
I know I'm running a fool's errand with this guy and I actually thought I'd stop after my last post but I'll consider my now last post as one for the road.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,847
Location
Pacific N.W.
You're completely right and I agree with you.
I know I'm running a fool's errand with this guy and I actually thought I'd stop after my last post but I'll consider my now last post as one for the road.
Image.jpg


You and mrfixitman are like bread n butter, much more enjoyable when consumed together. You're patience and efforts are appreciated.
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
599
Location
San Francisco
Big business and governments are driving the agenda.

Want clean air? Start by getting China to reduce the massive amounts of poison they pump into the atmosphere.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You'll have to give up those solar panels and your EV unless you're part of the communist elite that you appear so fond of.

Even if we all adopted the solar, batteries and EV like you and your brother it won't make a patch on what the big polluters of the world will continue to produce. Part of that pollution will be from producing your batteries etc.

We all want clean air but you need to be realistic on what and how this will actually be achieved rather than how you feel it will be achieved.

For now you can feel morally superior, if that appeases your conscience, because you drive an EV and run on batteries but in reality you're not.
I imagine your ecological footprint is likely excessive.
Dude. My wife uses Ridwell for $18 a month, to recycle chip bags and bubble wrap. I consider it a shame service for the privileged. We use the community garden and support Rainbow Grocery. I ride a bike and take BART across the bay when possible. Haven't been on a jet for decades. Local pollution control is important and the big reason California is ahead is the LA basin and the Bay Area. Smog is a slow killer. Burning eyes. Hard to breathe. Any place on the West Coast with costal mountains that can trap cleaning wind there is a problem. The two most polluted areas in the US are in California. Agriculture runs on oil. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
 

mrfixitman

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 16, 2023
Messages
599
Location
San Francisco
You're completely right and I agree with you.
I know I'm running a fool's errand with this guy and I actually thought I'd stop after my last post but I'll consider my now last post as one for the road.
Funny. I was going to say the same thing to you.
 

knucklegary

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
4,430
Location
NorCal, Central Coast
Dude. My wife uses Ridwell for $18 a month, to recycle chip bags and bubble wrap. I consider it a shame service for the privileged. We use the community garden and support Rainbow Grocery. I ride a bike and take BART across the bay when possible. Haven't been on a jet for decades. Local pollution control is important and the big reason California is ahead is the LA basin and the Bay Area. Smog is a slow killer. Burning eyes. Hard to breathe. Any place on the West Coast with costal mountains that can trap cleaning wind there is a problem. The two most polluted areas in the US are in California. Agriculture runs on oil. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/08/10-most-air-polluted-places-to-live-us
People's Park! ✊
 
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