From the "What were they thinking file?!?"

Hooked on Fenix

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When they lied and said that cloth masks worked for the virus, that didn't help anybody. If anything, it gave people a false sense of security and put them more at risk when they felt they were safer being around people with one on. There was a shortage of N-95s and surgical masks that had some protection, but they needed those for hospital staff so they lied to the public about cloth masks working putting them more at risk. Should have told them the truth. Not enough masks that work to keep people safe. Stay in your homes until there's a large enough supply to go around. I had issues using masks. Most didn't. Didn't justify lying to the public and getting more people killed. By the way, despite my breathing problems, I still had to wear a surgical mask. Cloth masks weren't allowed in hospitals and clinics. Doctor would not give me a note for an exemption because they didn't know why I had breathing problems.
 
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Monocrom

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It was disgusting how those doctors lied about cloth masks. But it seems they did that to prevent outright panic in the streets. Doesn't make it right though. As for surgical masks only giving some protection....

Family doctor, knew her since I was a small child. Height of COVID, she wore surgical masks only. Exposed herself to the virus on a daily basis while seeing patients in Astoria NY, at Northwell Health. She was certainly old enough that she could have retired, and no one would have thought less of her for doing so. Policy dictated at the office she shared with several other doctors that all staff, doctors, and patients must wear masks. Early on, many elderly patients didn't have masks. Her office handed out surgical masks.

She never once got infected. Every single day, for hours, exposed to patients who potentially had COVID. I'm sorry but you're not going to convince me that surgical masks only give some protection. That woman was a Saint. She only retired a few months back.

If anything, I remember doctors telling people NOT to stock up on surgical masks. Not to use them. They did so because they were worried that there'd be a shortage for them and their nurses. THOSE doctors were scumbags!

Edit: Clarification.
 
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Hooked on Fenix

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I did not say surgical masks did not work. I said cloth masks, the ones people wash and reuse, did not work. Surgical masks had something like 40+% protection. N95s had 95% if worn correctly and left on, which they never were because they were uncomfortable to keep on. Due to cost and lack of availability of N95s, and compactness (easier to carry with you) it was better to have surgical masks than alternatives. Dr. Fauci was telling people to wear cloth masks for awhile when there was a shortage of real ones. Those don't work.
 

Monocrom

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Pandemic showed up at our doors. People were on the verge of panicking. Guaranteed someone high-up in government pulled him aside. Told him to lie. Told him why. "We can't have mass panic and rioting in the streets of every major city. Lives will be lost. Tell them that improvised cloth masks can offer some protection."

What would you do if you were him? I don't agree with it, don't condone it. But I understand why it was done. Quite frankly, wouldn't have been necessary had Trump treated the outbreak with the seriousness it deserved, from the very start. Declare Martial Law. Ground every commercial plane in February 2020. Contact other nations, come up with a compensation plan for them to house, feed, and take care of stranded Americans in those nations. And then in 2024, fly them back home. But once again, gutless, cowardly....
 

Hooked on Fenix

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If you remember, Trump was the only one with the guts to try to shut down the border. Everyone was calling him a racist for doing it. The Supreme Court overturned his orders for shutting down the borders on June 18, 2020 (termination of DACA case). The ventilators for treatment were in disrepair and he had to overhaul the whole system to get them built using emergency powers and put them where they were needed. Companies had to be coerced to make masks, face shields, ventilators, etc. with executive authority. About the same for the vaccines, Operation Warpspeed. But since some democrats were in charge of that project, they held back approval of the vaccines until right when Biden got in office so he could get the credit. Trump parked a hospital ship USNF Comfort for Covid patients right in New York City and local officials underused that resource. If Trump had declared martial law, with how many people opposed him, they would have tried to impeach him just for that. They had already spent the last 3 years fraudulently trying to get rid of him, and still are to this day. Do you really think he had the political capital to get away with declaring martial law?
 

Monocrom

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Hold on now, trump wanting to close the border with Mexico and build a massive wall, had nothing to do with COVID. He was attempting to do that the moment he got into office, which was clearly before the Planetary Pandemic hit our shores. The wall, and his pitiful response to COVID are two very different things during his administration.

As far as PPE goes, I distinctly remember Trump going to the CEO of 3M and very humbly asking that not all of their supply of masks be sold just to China! That's what 3M was doing. Remember that? I do! China was willing to pay HUGE premiums for 3M's masks. As much as possible. Ship them on over! And the greedy scumbags, did! Zero patriotism to the nation that allowed them to operate and make their profits. Trump, our President, went to the CEO with hat humbly in hand; very politely asking that 3M sell some of the masks at slightly reasonable prices to the U.S. government. Trump stroked the CEO's ego (and maybe something else), getting the CEO to comply just a bit with his request.

As far as NYC, yeah; I remember the ship. I also remember the abysmal mis-management of the Jacob Javits Convention Center. Idiot politicians in charge didn't know if it should be converted into a hospital (only later realizing that the specialized electrical plugs needed for specialized hospital equipment didn't exist there), or a COVID patient treatment area. Which again, thanks toi a massive 22-point checklist for admitting COVID-infected patients was horrendously mis-managed. (A nurse at the JJCC leaked a copy of the checklist to the media.) But again, all that proves is what I've been saying all along.... Gutless, cowardly, worthless excuses for leaders all across America.

As far as Trump's popularity, screw popularity. Had he wanted to as President, yes he could have easily declared Martial Law; and enforced it. Literally all the previous times American presidents have declared Martial Law, none of them even remotely compete with the likes of a Planetary Pandemic killing countless citizens left and right. When it was actually needed most of all, it wasn't used!

Had it been used, COVID in America would have ended years ago! That 3M CEO, seize his facility. Have the necessary workers keep making masks, pay them their wages, seize every mask being made for use by America. Tell the CEO he can either like it or be tossed into a rotten prison cell until Martial Law is lifted. Done! But like everyone else, Trump was too worried about getting re-elected to make the hard choices. The necessary choices that would have benefited the entire nation. It's not about getting away with Martial Law. It's about recognizing it was needed and should have been declared. He was the president. Literally in charge of the entire military. Other politicians don't like it? Screw them. They're not in charge of the U.S. military.
 

Hooked on Fenix

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I seem to remember not long ago about Trump joking that when he gets re-elected, he'll be dictator for a day so he can shut down the border. The media went nuts and is still saying that "We can't have Trump in office. He said he'd be a dictator." How long can you enforce the law as President when the opposing party unjustly places you behind bars?
 

Lips

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Declare Martial Law. Ground every commercial plane in February 2020. Contact other nations, come up with a compensation plan for them to house, feed, and take care of stranded Americans in those nations. And then in 2024, fly them back home. But once again, gutless, cowardly....

uh, if you were a citizen out of the country in 2020 you couldn't come back in until 2024.
4 years sounds any where near reasonable?

or maybe sneak back in the southern border in Jan 2021.

My doctor hasn't mentioned Covid in close to two years now. We're not any where near as densely packed here...

I do have a couple 20 year old young lady's in Rhinebeck NY doing internships at a camp there... Looks beautiful.
 
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Two years ago, our oldest son and I were doing some yard work at Mom's house. I had just put a tool in the back of the van when I turned and saw him staring at what I thought was my back in shocked disbelief. I remember thinking and then asking him, "What's the matter, do I have a big harry spider on my back?" He ignored my question and continued to look past me, wide-eyed and silent. Well now, I'm getting really scared. So, I turned around and saw these two gals and their male companion about 15 feet away.

IMG_0966.jpeg


I don't remember what I said next, but I'm sure it wasn't "It's okay." They were the biggest cows I'd ever seen. They walked around the property for about 15 minutes, never standing in one place for long. The Puyallup Fair was going on and a friend of mine was involved with the livestock and rodeo exhibits. I called and asked if he knew anyone in our neighborhood who raised Black Angus. He didn't. About that time they moseyed onto the street, so I called the sheriff's department fearing they might get hit by a car.

A sheriff showed up and turned on his lights to slow down the traffic. A neighbor lady stopped and proceeded to wrangle them back onto Mom's property. The sheriff made a few calls and left to look for the owners.

I parked my van at the end of the driveway hoping to keep them corraled. About 15 minutes later two Vaqueros showed up with their five-year-old, English-speaking grandson, who translated.

They asked if it was okay to come onto the property and retrieve their livestock. I said yes, but how are you going to get them back to the ranch? They smiled and just started walking through the woods with the monsters walking right beside them.

The pictures don't show how big they were.

IMG_2679.jpeg


The wood cross-section of the close line is 6' 1".
IMG_0969.jpeg
 

Monocrom

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I seem to remember not long ago about Trump joking that when he gets re-elected, he'll be dictator for a day so he can shut down the border. The media went nuts and is still saying that "We can't have Trump in office. He said he'd be a dictator." How long can you enforce the law as President when the opposing party unjustly places you behind bars?
I have no clue what he'll do if he gets re-elected. That's going to be a huge hurdle for him after the seemingly successful witch-hunt and that Kangaroo trial decision. That's one thing we can both agree on.

All I know is, being President isn't a popularity contest after a man gets elected. (Obviously it is one while running for office.) Main thing is, leadership is a responsibility. Real leaders do what needs to be done. They make the hard choices when needed, then deal with the consequences, later. Trump chose not to do that. Biden chose not to do that when he first took over. You got one political party that literally hates you? Oh well, screw them! They'll get together later on and possibly kick you out of office. Oh well, who cares? YOU kept the people safe. YOU did what needed to be done. It ended up costing you the re-election? Who cares.... YOU shouldn't.
 

Monocrom

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uh, if you were a citizen out of the country in 2020 you couldn't come back in until 2024....
Early on, some did. That was the problem.
By the time anything was done, COVID was already in America.
 

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