Sold/Expired FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order List-2

[NewBie]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
In scientific papers, the writer is supposed to list the make, model, and serial number of the instrument used in testing. This allows others to repeat the same experiment and achieve similar results.


[/ QUOTE ]


So I assume you are saying the manufacturer/designer should post exactly what was utilized when they quote numbers. Yes, that would be a good idea.


[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
Also, the degree of error that naturally is present in all measuring devices is supposed to be used and figured into the data readings and reported.


[/ QUOTE ]


So the manufacturer should specify +/- a certain tolerance, again, a great idea.


[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
The Ichishiki being sold at the beginning of the original thread was 600 mA. I never read where the Ichishiki LE was offered in 600 mA. This was obviously an Ichisiki from a previous run.
Fin

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
ARC mania said:
4sevens:

The CR2 flashlight that I put up for sale in the past for $200.00 is NOT the same as the LE.

ARC mania

[/ QUOTE ]


Okay Fin, thats from this thread right here. The rest of your points on the LE seem meaningless, as you were talking about the LE. This isn't a LE.


Very true, your points on the specification numbers that manufacturer's and designers toss around, they really should be specified how they were measured, under what conditions, specifying the setup, and with what equipment.

That will go a long way to keeping folks out of hot water or alot more honest, depending on the situation.

 

[cy]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Whewwww....
gone for two days and look what hatched.

I've got a very simple solution for this entire mess. which is don't make any further claims using exact figures. simply quote aprox. 84%. aprox. 500 milliamps. etc.

different boards/luxeons are taken in account. no one gets their noses tweeked.

numbers aside, my KI when driven with CR2 li-ion is the brightest small light I have seen. this includes my Li14430 and every other small light i've gotten my hands on. And no I'm not including lights with 20mm reflectors driven by larger cells.

I've got three Fluke 87's and a Fluke 29. which are calibrated and gives identical readings.

Mike if you are so inclined and want to send me a few bare boards. I've got several TWOH's etc. here. I would be most happy to measure and give accurate inpartial readings to satisfy the most picky.

 

[Finbar]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
So I assume you are saying the manufacturer/designer should post exactly what was utilized when they quote numbers. Yes, that would be a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Newbie, when you "assume" it makes you an...well, you know what you are. I can speak for myself. Do not put your words in my mouth.

Designers may put whatever data they wish, in an effort to sell their product.

[ QUOTE ]
Newbie said:
So the manufacturer should specify +/- a certain tolerance, again, a great idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

It might help if you follow your same procedure when you post your own data. Great idea. Wish I would have thought of it.


[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
The Ichishiki being sold at the beginning of the original thread was 600 mA. I never read where the Ichishiki LE was offered in 600 mA. This was obviously an Ichisiki from a previous run.
Fin

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
ARC mania said:
4sevens:

The CR2 flashlight that I put up for sale in the past for $200.00 is NOT the same as the LE.

ARC mania

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Okay Fin, thats from this thread right here. The rest of your points seem meaningless, as you were talking about the LE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you comprehend what is being stated in the original thread? That was one light sold by ARC Mania that was 600 mA. It was NOT from this run of lights. Let's read ARC Mania's quote by you again...slowly. "is...NOT...the...same...as...the...LE." Not the same. Different. From another run. Dissimilar. Opposite of the same. A parrot that is DE-CEASED(Monty Python).

No, the rest of my post is not "meaningless". It points out your error in using 600 mA, from a previous run to compare the LE run, and using that data to make some erroneous inference about the LE run.

[ QUOTE ]
Newbie said:
Very true, your points on the specification numbers that manufacturer's and designers toss around, they really should be specified how they were measured, under what conditions, specifying the setup, and with what equipment.

That will go a long way to keeping folks out of hot water or alot more honest, depending on the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it should keep people like you from "toss around" numbers that are incorrectly referenced and misapplied to make some argument - for the sake of argument.

As for the honesty part, I doubt that you shall ever possess that quality. You obviously are cognizant of EE, yet you draw erroneous inferences from what a child in the sixth grade can understand.

My point stands. You have misapplied the 600 mA from a different light yet used those numbers to compare with the LE run.

The only question is what is your true intent in this thread? I would find it difficult to believe anything in the future that you post - given your failure to comprehend elementary level English. No matter what your level of understanding of EE. You are twisting facts incorrectly to make a false argument. I find it hard to believe that you can dupe anyone with such shallow facts.

Whatever minutia of knowledge that you have offered in the past is diminished by your false accusations here in this thread.

You seem to complain a lot about the products that others have taken the time and skills to produce. If your ideas are so superior, why not make a superior light for CPF? I challenge you.

Out of curiosity Newbie, what are the measurements from your Ichishiki LE that you purchased?

Fin

 

[Arcoholic]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Wow a flashlight pee pee match. All it is going to do is hold people back from making these great customs available to us.

 

[Endeavour]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Wow Finbar... You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... Nor who you're dealing with.

NewBie is an absolute treasure trove of information, a lot of which he has posted publicly, and gives in private... Your slandering of him here is absolutely uncalled for, especially when it's so far from the truth...

I'm done wallowing in this muck now, I hope. If people are content possibly being in the dark on information, that's really not my problem anymore, I've got better things to do with my time, including worrying about my own projects.

 

[NewBie]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
So I assume you are saying the manufacturer/designer should post exactly what was utilized when they quote numbers. Yes, that would be a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Newbie, when you "assume" it makes you an...well, you know what you are. I can speak for myself. Do not put your words in my mouth.

Designers may put whatever data they wish, in an effort to sell their product.

[ QUOTE ]
Newbie said:
So the manufacturer should specify +/- a certain tolerance, again, a great idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

It might help if you follow your same procedure when you post your own data. Great idea. Wish I would have thought of it.


[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
The Ichishiki being sold at the beginning of the original thread was 600 mA. I never read where the Ichishiki LE was offered in 600 mA. This was obviously an Ichisiki from a previous run.
Fin

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
ARC mania said:
4sevens:

The CR2 flashlight that I put up for sale in the past for $200.00 is NOT the same as the LE.

ARC mania

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Okay Fin, thats from this thread right here. The rest of your points seem meaningless, as you were talking about the LE.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you comprehend what is being stated in the original thread? That was one light sold by ARC Mania that was 600 mA. It was NOT from this run of lights. Let's read ARC Mania's quote by you again...slowly. "is...NOT...the...same...as...the...LE." Not the same. Different. From another run. Dissimilar. Opposite of the same. A parrot that is DE-CEASED(Monty Python).

No, the rest of my post is not "meaningless". It points out your error in using 600 mA, from a previous run to compare the LE run, and using that data to make some erroneous inference about the LE run.

[ QUOTE ]
Newbie said:
Very true, your points on the specification numbers that manufacturer's and designers toss around, they really should be specified how they were measured, under what conditions, specifying the setup, and with what equipment.

That will go a long way to keeping folks out of hot water or alot more honest, depending on the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it should keep people like you from "toss around" numbers that are incorrectly referenced and misapplied to make some argument - for the sake of argument.

As for the honesty part, I doubt that you shall ever possess that quality. You obviously are cognizant of EE, yet you draw erroneous inferences from what a child in the sixth grade can understand.

My point stands. You have misapplied the 600 mA from a different light yet used those numbers to compare with the LE run.

The only question is what is your true intent in this thread? I would find it difficult to believe anything in the future that you post - given your failure to comprehend elementary level English. No matter what your level of understanding of EE. You are twisting facts incorrectly to make a false argument. I find it hard to believe that you can dupe anyone with such shallow facts.

Whatever minutia of knowledge that you have offered in the past is diminished by your false accusations here in this thread.

You seem to complain a lot about the products that others have taken the time and skills to produce. If your ideas are so superior, why not make a superior light for CPF? I challenge you.

Fin

[/ QUOTE ]


Okay, thats a personal attack, okay, I'll step on down to talk to you for a moment.

You don't get it, do you. This isn't an LE. ArcMania himself said so. Go back and read that again. We are talking about the light that 4sevens got, who knows whats up with those LE lights, I sure don't. You are the one making that connection, not I.

Finbar, I don't see any basis here on cpf that anyone could even come close to considering you a authority on anything. Maybe I am wrong, would you please point me to your knowledgable posts?

I could easily point you to quite a few threads where I have painstakingly tested and posted alot of information here on cpf for the benefit of everyone, and for all to use. Here are only a few of my many information posts:

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4

Example 5

Example 6

Example 7

Example 8

Example 9

Example 10

There are a great many threads I have posted with material comparisons, explanations, sources of materials, useful new devices, schematics, and alot more.

I have no desire to produce a flashlight, I already have my hands full working as an Electrical Engineer. Thats why I provide a great many posts full of information for others, so that together we can advance the State of the Art.

Folks asked me to be less agressive with the tone in my posts, and I feel I have been.


However, I'm not sure what your problem or issue is, and hope you get whatever is going on worked out.

Take care of yourself.

 

[rikvee]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Bringing new special lights to life deserves great respect.
This respect should mean that any criticism is handled in private, not in a public forum.

The reason for that is explained by the above, all good people, none of them doing themselves any favors....

Criticism in public is similar to heckling from a crowd, and as such, plain bad manners.

Mike Jordan has just brought the best little light ever-made to CPF, and the plusses of that far outweigh any whining noises from the sidelines....

 

[Finbar]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

[ QUOTE ]
Endeavour said:
Wow Finbar... You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... Nor who you're dealing with.

NewBie is an absolute treasure trove of information, a lot of which he has posted publicly, and gives in private... Your slandering of him here is absolutely uncalled for, especially when it's so far from the truth...

I'm done wallowing in this muck now, I hope. If people are content possibly being in the dark on information, that's really not my problem anymore, I've got better things to do with my time, including worrying about my own projects.

[/ QUOTE ]

"You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about..."

I can read and understand English - can you? I fail to see where the claim was made by ARC Mania that the LE was going to be set at 600 mA. Point out my error - if indeed I made one.

"...Nor who you are dealing with."

This sounds like a threat - is it? Unless that person created this universe...I do not care who he is.

"...your slandering him..."

To educate your own ignorance, slander is the spoken word. I have not slandered newbie. I merely pointed out the factual errors of his post. Please point to any misrepresentation on my part - if you can.

"...especially when it is so far from the truth."

newbie used 600 mA as a setting for the LE. This is incorrect. Please point out the error on my part - if you can.

"...content possibly being in the dark on information...."

No, I encourage anyone that can quantify their data to test to their heart's content. A posted procedure on how they came about the numbers would be excellent as well. That way there could be little room for argument on how those numbers were reached.

Enrique, you may remove me from the CR2 Ion order list. When you get right down to it - it really is not "your project" is it now? You are merely copying someone else's ideas. If you can ever come up with an original of your own....

BTW, I agree with what you stated earlier in a PM about someone(a KI owner) that posted in a KI thread. I wonder what you say about others...hiding in tha dark.

Fin

 

[Amorphous]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif

 

[NewBie]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Hey guys, chill out.

We don't need to start WWIII already, it hasn't even been 100 years.

This isn't a LE, nor are we talking about an LE, we are talking about the light 4sevens got.

It would probably be best to drop it, it seems some folks are getting rather heated.

 

[Endeavour]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

You know what Finbar, you're really not worth my time, so I'll keep it brief.

If you wish to try to somehow insult me by undermining the work in my project, congratulations, you succeeded. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

To each his own though, I suppose. Have a good evening. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif

-Enrique

 

[Dr_Joe]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/touche.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/awman.gif
I have always marveled at the wonderful collegial tone and almost universal comraderie experienced on this forum. It is part of what makes CPF a "community" and not just a website.

My experiences here have all been more than pleasant, and I like to think of my fellow CPF'ers as friends. Friends show each other respect, and don't jump to conclusions and accusations when the slightest suspicion is raised.

I'm dismayed that some people are dissatisfied with the KI-LE ! It is, IMHO one of the finest flashlights I have ever owned in design, execution and function. It is the "Hattori Hanzo" of flashlights.

"Brightness" (output) wiil always be a compromise with runtime and size. In this size, I dare anyone to find a light that better finds that compromise point, putting out a tremendous amount of light, with a more than acceptable runtime.

As with any product, if you are not satisfied, give the seller a chance to correct any possible problems. If still not satisfied, ask for a refund. If you remain unhappy, then bring your grievance to a public forum.

It seems pretty obvious from the posts to this thread that the overwhelming majority of KI-LE recipients are more than pleased. You can't satisfy everyone. In fact it has been my experience that some people will never be satisfied, but that is generally due to very deep seated psychological issues that are entirely off topic.

Bottom line, I hate to see our community plagued with all these negatives. If 4sevens is that unhappy with his purchase, I'm sure there are many people that will be more than happy to take it off his hands in a heart beat. If that doesn't make him "whole", probably nothing will.

I think Mike has done an outstanding job in making this otherwise unobtainable light available to us, and I, for one, am very grateful, regardless of what milliamperage the board measures.

Perhaps with certain very high end products, and their appropriate owners, specifications are not really needed. Aston Martin and Bentley for years listed the output of their engines as "Adequate" and this was more than enough for many grateful and happy owners. Perhaps not everyone is suited to own an Aston or a Bently,(or a KI-LE) and has a greater appreciation for the output accuracy that Ford (or SureFire) provides. To each, his own.

So Mike, the next time you have something extraordinary to offer, just tell me the output is "adequate", and based on our experience thus far, I will rest easy that you will deliver excellence as you have in the past. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grouphug.gif

 

[4sevens]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Finbar why are you so inflammatory?

I know Newbie is an engineer at big company and he doesn't put out
numbers lightly. And I'm sure he doesn't just toss out numbers.
Newbie works with equipment that costs more than you or I will
make in our lifetime. I hope he doesn't mind me saying so.

And you, I have yet to see any numbers you have put out to refute
anything. However you said: "Designers may put whatever data they wish, in an effort to sell their product." What does WHATEVER
THEY WISH mean? When I posted my readings, I didn't wish anything.
I simply measured. What numbers were read are just what they are.
WISHING is not part of the SCIENTIFIC PROCESS. You're not refering
to Arc Mania stating the LE being 550ma and mid to high 90's efficiency are you? That WAS my wish. If it were true I would
have still posted my results. My motive was pure.

What is your true intent? You see when you measure the voltage
or current or anything quantitative for that matter - you really
have nothing to do with it. In fact, you dont' want any part of
your subjective interpretation involved at all. It should be
ACCURATE, PRECISE, and REPEATABLE. That was my only intention.
As I've said multiple times I appreciate the light, especially
the body. However, getting something other than what I was told
did not make me happy.

And you. You ask newbie to measure his cr2 light which you very well
know he didn't purchase one... what about yours? Do you have one to
measure yourself? Do you know the difference between voltage and
current? What is your motive beside to troll through this thread?
Do you even have multimeter?

Now you go and bash Endeavour. I suppose you'll slam me as well.
No matter. I've clicked the ignore button for you so I won't
ever see your posts again (and your indecent picture).
People like you insult intelligence of the cpf community.

By the way, that avatar of yours should be banned. I don't like to
see you naked bathing in a horse trough.

4sevens

[ QUOTE ]
Finbar said:
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
So I assume you are saying the manufacturer/designer should post exactly what was utilized when they quote numbers. Yes, that would be a good idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

No Newbie, when you "assume" it makes you an...well, you know what you are. I can speak for myself. Do not put your words in my mouth.

Designers may put whatever data they wish, in an effort to sell their product.
...
No, it should keep people like you from "toss around" numbers that are incorrectly referenced and misapplied to make some argument - for the sake of argument.

As for the honesty part, I doubt that you shall ever possess that quality. You obviously are cognizant of EE, yet you draw erroneous inferences from what a child in the sixth grade can understand.
...
The only question is what is your true intent in this thread? I would find it difficult to believe anything in the future that you post - given your failure to comprehend elementary level English. No matter what your level of understanding of EE. You are twisting facts incorrectly to make a false argument. I find it hard to believe that you can dupe anyone with such shallow facts.

Whatever minutia of knowledge that you have offered in the past is diminished by your false accusations here in this thread.
...
Out of curiosity Newbie, what are the measurements from your Ichishiki LE that you purchased?

Fin

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[shiftd]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

Regarding this commotion, i think this is really unnecessary. Sure, the spec given by MJ might be off, but lets just drop the subject and do a little group hug here.
Personally, i wouldn't want to pay for something that is not what i expect it to be. But it depends what you expect it to be? Like some have said, most folks buy it because they want the small (?), bright, and nice light. I am sure the KI did achieve that, so lets just drop this one and let him create some other nice things in the future. I am sure he would be more careful in posting the spec for the light next time.


to Finbar:
a wee bit side topic here, but i have a couple points need to make (albeit unrelated to the topic of this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

1. while it is true that ende imitating the design of Larry's light, he also adds his own improvement to the overall design. I praise him for this run he is planning because that is the only way (unless you want to pay $$$) to get larry's CR2 light of course. He is also invest his time and money to design, create and make his own converter for the thing, do R & D to decide which luxes to be used, test and fit to decide the best measurements for the lights he going to make a run of. Simply regarding him as copying larry's design without seeing the other side is simply wrong.

2. Jar did make some light, albeit not the custom complete light in the general sense. He made me the circuit for my CARROT, and the thor boost.
Also, his knowledge is not minutia. If you do your homework and see the thread that he posted in, it seems that he has more knowledge than the average folks.

 

[Datasaurusrex]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

I suggest that this thread gets locked, and that the conversation gets taken to either the "Cheers and Jeers" section or the 'Underground"

 

[iddibhai]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

this has certainly been an amusing thread--be it as it may have been bordering on unpleasant, and i'd like to add a few comments myself:

1. granted, there will be variation across any set of components, that's just the nature of the beast, so it'd be nice of if both buyers and sellers realized that numbers are not hard. and on the same note, it'd be nice if the sellers would be conservative in their ratings--as much as we'd all like unlimited lux from an miniscule power supply for infinity, it ain't happening. upping the count, be it efficiency, runtime, output, an get addicting yes, but lets go nice and easy, like what SF does (L4 rated ~60lumens nominal even though it was measured to be a smidgen over 80 in an integrating photosphere). quoting nominal output is great because you can get somehting that falls on either side. just spec peak output, and then all the numbers will fall below that, and very few will be right on the dot (skewed distribution).

2. I agree w/ the maxim that as long it performs the function it is supposed to, all should be well. but, if i'm buying a viper, i want to know i can take it flat out in the middle of the desert, even if 99% of the time i'll be limping around at 45mph on a congested highway. if all I wanted was to do 45, then i'd have gotten something an order of magnitude different and cheaper. the reason folks are paying upwards of 200 dollars is for a premium light that will do everything it can claim to do so. otherwise we'd all buy 2 dollar plastic lights.

3. let us refrain from ad-hominem--it serves no purpose here but to cultivate hostile feelings. also remember that this is not face-to-face communication, and thus nuances in what we convey is lost, and things can get mis-read.

4. chuck me into the "jarhead/newbie/ende/47" camp if you will but third party verification serves all of us in the long run, and if that's what the aforementioned are doing, and posting their methodology publicly, more power to them. do note one sample size is not a representation, however--both parties can play nice by PM-ing each other any discrepancies and try to figure out what's going on before slugging it out. or, say, 47 sends his light back, and MJ measures it, and on finding something off, gives him a new light, or somehting along those lines? or the other way round. plenty of ways to work around the situation w/ bogging CPF down (you'd be amazed how many attempts it took for me to load this thread!)

4. finally, granted one sample is not a representation, but if that's all we got, that's all we got. now the issue is not "we can't use it" but rather "how can we utilise what little we DO have". so the rest of you guys, how about giving us some measurements (against a well known standard, say). i'm darn curious.

5. finally, i do agree this "order thread" is NOT the place for this discussion, but i'd rather see it on CPF elsewhere, not CPFU which requires another forum registration.

thanks.

 

[Rothrandir]

Re: FS:Katokichi Ichishiki CR2 Flashlight Order Li

this is a sale thread, and as i recall, such threads aren't to be trashed in such a manner.
that aside, i'm not sure this thread is very productive for cpf at all. many good points are being brought up on both sides, but not in an acceptable manner.

i'm closing this thread, and the discussion can be taken to the underground if desired, and sales can resume in another thread in this forum.