# garage lighting project featuring Nichia 219's [wip]

#### Hoop

##### Enlightened
By the way, I want to say Big thanks to Illumination Supply for coming through for me with this bulk order of Nichia 219A's!

Have you done any thermal analysis or measured a mock-up yet? Just curious how hot your tubing will get with whatever thermal load you're planning...
Thermal analysis... I new I forgot something! I only calculated the total surface area of the heatsink and made an assumption of whether it would be sufficient, and at first I was grossly underestimating the required surface area but SemiMan set me straight. Your post inspired me to run some numbers but I do not know if my values are correct. From what I have read these MCPCB stars add 3-5 °C/W (seems low) and the 219A sports a pretty poor TR value of 7 °C/W typical, so the total TR of the combo would be 12 °C/W worst case. The heatsink provides 19 in² of vertical surface per led plus some horizontal surface and also I will leave the ends open, but at 19 in² the heatsink will have a TR of 5°C/W. I am not sure if this figure is correct but I will roll with it.... So the total TR is 17 °C/W, and if the led consumes 5 watts, 4 of which are heat, the total temperature rise over ambient will be 68°C. The hottest it's going to get in my garage is 30°C, so the maximum Tj temp will be 98°C. I doubt I will actually be driving these suckers at full power very often, so they would typically be much cooler. At 600mA per led (1.6W of heat) there will be 360 lux in the shop space and the led junction temperature in 30°C ambient would be 57.2°C.

Let me know if these numbers check out fellas!

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#### AnAppleSnail

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
So the total TR is 17 °C/W, and if the led consumes 5 watts, 4 of which are heat, the total temperature rise over ambient will be 68°C. The hottest it's going to get in my garage is 30°C, so the maximum Tj temp will be 98°C. I doubt I will actually be driving these suckers at full power very often, so they would typically be much cooler. At 600mA per led (1.6W of heat) there will be 360 lux in the shop space and the led junction temperature in 30°C ambient would be 57.2°C.

Let me know if these numbers check out fellas!

Almost. What temperature is the heatsink? I have some strip LEDs on a 36 inch extruded U-bar (24W of inefficient LED, so about 6W light and 18W heat). The C-bar is 1/16" aluminum stamped to about 1" on a side. This is a much larger array of much smaller LEDs, so the diode-to-heatsink thermal resistance has a much smaller Watts value than you will.This C-channel gets warm to the touch, so I estimate:

Ambient 22C air
Heatsink temperature 37C (This is easiest to measure. Precise calculation of steady-state temperature of a bar of metal from a given heat flow distributed along that bar is difficult.)
Est. thermal resistance: 15 C/W at ~0.25W per LED
Est LED Temp: 40C.

#### SemiMan

##### Banned
It's funny that I always think of a complicated solution first and then the more simple ones after a bit more thought. I mocked up a hold down clamp which is shaped such that it would put significant down force on the star, but then I decided to just use screws in an alternating fashion from star to star.

Thermal epoxy on its own works quite well too, but the screws and epoxy will be best. Just make sure to tighten them equally so the stars sit flat and you do not bend them.

Semiman

#### moosefps

##### Newly Enlightened
I live in Georgia and have a 30x40 shop. It has 18ft rafters. I installed 10-10watt led flood lights and they are terrible. Not enough light output to see squat and in 6 months 2 are out. They were cheap from eBay. Stay away I will be doing tubes.

#### idleprocess

##### Flashaholic
I live in Georgia and have a 30x40 shop. It has 18ft rafters. I installed 10-10watt led flood lights and they are terrible. Not enough light output to see squat and in 6 months 2 are out. They were cheap from eBay. Stay away I will be doing tubes.
I believe that the above emphasis added section is the primary take-away.

Using good LED's from a known source driven by a quality driver with adequate attention to thermal design and quality fabrication should result in a long-lasting design that performs well (or buying bulbs/fixtures with the same attributes). Cheap fleabay wares tend to be none of these, however they will be cheaper and make sweeping promises.

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#### idleprocess

##### Flashaholic
Partially as a result of reading this thread, I have started considering a similar project with Bridgelux LED's mounted singly to those purpose-built Wakefield heatsinks (the kind that cost as much as the Bridgelux array).

General idea is to suspend each LED/heatsink combo from its own power wires by about 12", firing up to diffuse off the ceiling. I would like to find some sort of matte, high-reflective material to put against the ceiling to help reflect and diffuse the light (and to hide whatever junction/etc I need to do at the ceiling). Power will be handled via some sort of mains-powered CC driver (UL since I don't need any problems with my insurance company).

A previous project in the garage (replacing the incandescent bulb socket on the garage door opener) using 18 Rebel LED's nominally producing perhaps 2000lm total is nearly enough light to work by. 20 of the lower-power Bridgelux LED's producing 8000lm should roughly quadruple this and be plenty adequate. While this will not be anywhere close to the output of the six 32W T8 floros currently installed, it will still be plenty adequate - especially if I install some task lighting over the work bench. The CRI on the floro tubes isn't great and I have no visual issues working out there, so the moderate CRI of the average Bridgelux array should also be OK.

As an added bonus, with some clever wiring and a relay or two, I could use select LED strings from this project to replace the previous project (which is none too neat) to light the garage during entry/exit with the garage door opener.

#### Hoop

##### Enlightened
Partially as a result of reading this thread, I have started considering a similar project with Bridgelux LED's...
I was really wondering if the absurdity of this project (in cost and scope) would inspire some others to do something similar! I can only hope I am setting the bar for garage lighting! :devil:

I had not seen that before. I will be sure to be very considerate with regards to assembly.

one thing I am unsure of is the voltage drop of my arrays. Each "Meanwell HLG-320H-48B" driver outputs 48V at 6.7A for 321.6 Watts. Each array consists of 60 led's in 12s5p configuration. The Nichia 219's at 1.34A, according to this post, will require 3.63 volts. Their actual voltage requirement will be lower due to their operating temperature at full power, but even so, 3.63V x 12 is 43.46 volts. This leaves 4.44 volts overhead in this worst case scenario. I do not know the electrical resistance of each of my stars and I do not yet have a benchtop power supply to help test this. I roughly estimate using 25 feet of wire per array. 25 feet of 18 gauge copper wire should have a resistance of .16 ohms which at 6.7A will be a voltage drop of 1.072 volts. (first time actually using ohms law so...) I suppose between fixtures I will use a heavier gauge cerrowire so that should help with wire resistance.

Any thoughts from the guru's regarding all this?

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#### jason 77

##### Enlightened
CPF Supporter
one thing I am unsure of is the voltage drop of my arrays. Each "Meanwell HLG-320H-48B" driver outputs 48V at 6.7A for 321.6 Watts. Each array consists of 60 led's in 12s5p configuration. The Nichia 219's at 1.34A, according to this post, will require 3.63 volts. Their actual voltage requirement will be lower due to their operating temperature at full power, but even so, 3.63V x 12 is 43.46 volts. This leaves 4.44 volts overhead in this worst case scenario. I do not know the electrical resistance of each of my stars and I do not yet have a benchtop power supply to help test this. I roughly estimate using 25 feet of wire per array. 25 feet of 18 gauge copper wire should have a resistance of .16 ohms which at 6.7A will be a voltage drop of 1.072 volts. (first time actually using ohms law so...) I suppose between fixtures I will use a heavier gauge cerrowire so that should help with wire resistance.

Any thoughts from the guru's regarding all this?

The spec sheet on you meanwell driver says the output voltage is adjustable from 43-52 volts, I would think that you should be able to fine tune the power going to the LEDs with each power supply?

#### mcbrat

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
CPF Supporter
if the heatsinking wasn't enough, you could wire in a cpu coolng fan on the end of the bar/diffuser to pull air across the stars for some active cooling.

#### SemiMan

##### Banned
I was really wondering if the absurdity of this project (in cost and scope) would inspire some others to do something similar! I can only hope I am setting the bar for garage lighting! :devil:

I had not seen that before. I will be sure to be very considerate with regards to assembly.

one thing I am unsure of is the voltage drop of my arrays. Each "Meanwell HLG-320H-48B" driver outputs 48V at 6.7A for 321.6 Watts. Each array consists of 60 led's in 12s5p configuration. The Nichia 219's at 1.34A, according to this post, will require 3.63 volts. Their actual voltage requirement will be lower due to their operating temperature at full power, but even so, 3.63V x 12 is 43.46 volts. This leaves 4.44 volts overhead in this worst case scenario. I do not know the electrical resistance of each of my stars and I do not yet have a benchtop power supply to help test this. I roughly estimate using 25 feet of wire per array. 25 feet of 18 gauge copper wire should have a resistance of .16 ohms which at 6.7A will be a voltage drop of 1.072 volts. (first time actually using ohms law so...) I suppose between fixtures I will use a heavier gauge cerrowire so that should help with wire resistance.

Any thoughts from the guru's regarding all this?

You realize these are constant current supplies right? You can adjust the current using one of the dimming options, but you don't need to worry about overhead as long as you have enough. They will go up to 54V as needed to reach the current output setting.

Semiman

#### CraigS

##### Newly Enlightened
Hi, Hoop,
Very timely and interesting thread. I have embarked on a very similar project for my 24' x30' home machine shop. The shop currently has 6 8' dual tube T12 fixtures that at one time provided acceptable lighting, but most of the fixtures are dead now and it was time to update. Back in December our local Seven-Eleven upgraded to LED lighting. On my first soda visit after the new lighting I was stunned by how nice the light was and decided I had to do the same for my shop. I did some web searches and believe 7-11 used XR22 2'x2' troffers from LSI industries. The fixtures are rated at 3850 lumens at 300ma and 4700 at 400ma and are spaced on a 6' grid, believe they are running 300 maA based on a conversation with LSI. Each fixture had 48 1.5W emitters. I don't know the cost of each fixture but my guess is > \$250USD. Hope this gives you some bench marks as it did me.

So my first thought was to duplicate the troffer but realized that it would be a PITA to solder down all those LED's. After much searching I ended selecting a Cree CXA1512 based on Cree's characterization tool. Four of these should put out [email protected]
The devices are on 5/8" square ceramic wafers and have solder tabs on the top and will be easy epoxy to the heat sink plate.
I built a prototype troffer from a 21" square .125" aluminum plate, some 5" wide white painted sides and a HomeDepo prismatic diffuser. The results are encouraging: The plate seems to have sufficient area to cool the 4 emitters though I haven't done a long term thermal stability test. The efficiency of the diffuser is the pits and really reduces the light output. With 4 emitters you would expect hot spots but they are minimal and adequate for the shop using the current diffuser. I have not measured or compared the light output with the 7-11 yet but I plan on doing that shortly. I have two concerns, first is using a droffer without a drop ceiling, the troffer will fit between my 2x12 joists but how do I get the heat out above the fixture and the roof deck. Second is how do I power the emitters, the CAX1512's have a 37 Vf -- still working on this.

I am also looking at an alternative design; mount the emitters on some 1x2 or 1x3 rectangular AL tubing like you are doing but face the emitters up and use a white reflector above the emitters to act as a diffuser. That way the tubing heat sink is down in room air. Like another poster indicated, a small DC fan could push air down the tubing, wouldn't take much.

Craig

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#### jason 77

##### Enlightened
CPF Supporter
Any updates from the OP? Looks like it was going good for a bit there, looking forward to seeing more pictures and info on the project!

#### Hoop

##### Enlightened
Ok, time for an update.... More of an update on the progress of the shop itself rather than the led light project, as I have been putting off the light project until the shop is in a better state.

I have been making slow but steady progress and the pace is starting to move faster now because I am CLOSE to getting to the point where I can comfortably get work done in there, and also I am keeping the space temperature regulated as of last week, so the cost of that is incentive to get out there and do some work.

The taping and mudding was done over the summer and is complete to the extent that I am moving on for now, but some seams will need a bit of repair. The expanding and contracting of the drywall over time has made some seams split a bit, so I will need to re-tape those. It's a constant struggle, the tape and the mud, I tell you. I've skipped painting for now, as I just want to move on to more important things. All three garage doors received new torsion springs to replace the busted old extension springs. This cost \$600 to have installed by sears garage door service. I have built three work tables but am definitely in need of shelving. I will purchase used metal shelves rather than build them out of wood. I aquired a large office desk and filing cabinet so that is taken care of...

I still need to replace the old 120v outlets in the walls because they are in poor shape and some have broken off contacts in them and grit and such. There are perhaps fourteen in total to replace. The holes cut in the drywall to allow for the outlet boxes are not all that well aligned, and some of the electrical boxes are inset in the drywall quite a bit, so I will have to get some electrical box extenders and install them, then rewire in new sockets, then use some jumbo plates to cover any small gaps; larger gaps will need some "hot mud" work to patch. The attic needs insulation asap to make it easier to keep the place heated, and also I will install some incan lights in conjunction with an illuminated switch, as well as an outlet up there.

Now the picture roll:

There were large gaps around the garage doors which needed to be sealed before I could heat the place. The corners of the garage door openings are beveled so I borrowed a co-workers miter saw so that I could cut the necessary 22.5° angles. Thanks Bernard! The white trim pieces are vinyl garage door weather-strip seals.

I installed an insulated attic entry door, by myself, which was no easy task and took several hours. Also I trimmed around it as of yesterday. This was my first time installing trim and I had to pry it off and redo it a couple times because I had almost cut the trim too short and already returned the miter saw, but it did work out. The door is an insulated "FAKRO" unit with metal stairs that I bought from home depot online.

The 5700W heater is in place and hard wired. It draws 24 amps at 240V and is on a 30A breaker. I used flexible conduit with appropriate fittings, and used an outlet cover with a 1/2" knockout to act as the interface to the ceiling. I think it looks pretty good. There is not an actual box behind the outlet cover; the Cerro wire feeds through the attic and then into conduit leading into the breaker box.

My 3hp Puma compressor received some huge feet and a cord, and a 240v wall outlet was installed. The refrigerated air dryer is on a temporary stand. Later I will mount it above the compressor to save floor space. I still need to run the air through the ceiling, and mount some manifolds to the walls, but for the time being the hoses are just running across the floor to my mill.

A Haas mini-mill fits into a standard garage pretty easily, but the cable track will bump into an 8' ceiling, and so a box has to be built to accommodate it. I haven't finished mudded it yet.

And lastly, I installed the vises on the mill table and trammed them in, so they are ready to take on work when I get the nerve.... A couple of Kurt HD690's fit on a mini-mill table quite well without bumping into the back column cover or bumping into the front door. The back of the vises stop right at the end of the table, and the front of the vises are a few inches from the door at maximum positive Y axis travel. The HD690 vises, being a "pull style" vise, don't have a column that extends out of the back of the vise as the jaws are closed like a standard vise does, so I don't have to worry about any clearance behind the vises.

So as you can see, there were A LOT of projects I needed to do, and I needed to prioritize most of them before the LED light install.... The temporary lighting in there right now is six 75W incan bulbs installed into socket adapters which are plugged into extension cords, strewn over the garage door rails.

I will update as I get things installed. I should be completing one major task a week at this point, at least. Soon it's gonna be LED light install time!

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#### Hoop

##### Enlightened
Alright! I'm pretty much done fussing with the shop at this point. The air has been plumbed, the shelves are in place, and all the scraps and garbage are out of there. It is time to resume the led light project....

#### Steve K

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
a CNC machine in the garage??!! wowzer!
(if not a CNC machine, what is it??)

#### Hoop

##### Enlightened
a CNC machine in the garage??!! wowzer!

That's correct. It's a Haas Mini Mill, which is a vertical machining center that has a 10 pot automatic tool changer. It's mini in that it has a small work envelope of 16x12x14 or so, but it is quite capable within that envelope. You can fit it inside a residential garage without too much fuss, and it runs on single phase power.

#### Hoop

##### Enlightened
So two days after I made my last post I lost my job unexpectedly, but I have since found a new one and the project is back on. At this point I have all of the components modeled, the material to manufacture the components, and all of the necessary fasteners to assemble it all. I will program the parts for machining as I need to.

So far I am just about finished with machining the aluminum extrusions. The total machine time on the 30 extrusions is about 13 hours, and this is because I am surfacing the little grooves that the diffuser will sit in with a 1/32 4fl ball end mill, and I am limited to a spindle speed of 6,000 rpm. The extrusions themselves are 19 inches long, and my mill only has 16 inches of X axis travel, so I am doing half of the extrusion, then rotating it 180 and doing to other half, so it blends in the middle. The extrusions are pretty dimensionally consistent so the blends in the grooves have been smooth or unnoticeable.

I decided that the end caps would be held in place by a single screw, which goes into an angle bracket that I will also be machining. The end caps will have a lip to them so if they were to flex slightly it will be imperceptible because the lip shrouds the end of the extrusion. Each led will be held in place by two 4-40 screws that will have fiber washers underneath to protect against shorts. The plastic diffuser will be held in place at the ends by the end caps, and in the middle by two 10-32 screws going through the diffuser, spaced equidistant from the ends. The grooves in the extrusion coupled with the end caps and screws should keep the diffuser held firmly in place and with no light able to escape at the seams.

This thread has been all over the place, so to recap: The system will consist of 180 Nichia 219 LEDS in total, divided amongst 30 light bars, so 6 leds per light bar. Three 95% efficient 320 watt Meanwell drivers will power the system. Each driver will be powering 10 light bars, so 60 leds, wired in 12s5p. Each bar will see about 30 watts at maximum output, and each led about 1340 mA. Total system wattage will be about 950 watts maximum, but the array will be on a dimmer and I will not need to run it full blast in such a small shop.

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#### Steve K

##### Flashlight Enthusiast
pretty darned impressive!

quick question... is it still a garage if it doesn't house a car??

#### idleprocess

##### Flashaholic
pretty darned impressive!

quick question... is it still a garage if it doesn't house a car??

When I was a kid, the garage was always "the shop" since its space was occupied by various pieces of woodworking equipment (tablesaw, bandsaw, planer, edger, drill press, lathe, belt sander, radial arm saw), various workbenches, and this structure built over dad's wood stash running nearly the length of the garage simply referred to as "the aircraft carrier". I don't think they ever parked a car in the garage of any house we lived in except as a novelty when moving in before the moving van showed up and when moving out after everything had been packed. It's only now that dad has a dedicated ~800sqft standalone shop that the garage is containing mom's car.