Icebreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
snip...
The IRC bulbs are unbeatable for longevity.
...snip
Good to know. Thanks for the photo.
Germans hoarding Incands
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Good to know. Thanks for the photo.
Icebreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
It just occurred to me. I was looking at yellow's chandelier pic again and thinking about what those crystal design elements look like in person. Then I got to thinking about how incandescents have that total spectrum. And it is that total spectrum that causes crystal chandeliers to be so spectacular, even when lit by candle light verses lamps.
I got to thinking...would people with extensive, disposable cash be snapping up crystal chandeliers and the incandescent lamps that go with them? I suddenly feel a need to go on Ebay and buy a nice chandelier.
Forgive me if that sounds nuts. I just barely finished my cup of coffee.
I got to thinking...would people with extensive, disposable cash be snapping up crystal chandeliers and the incandescent lamps that go with them? I suddenly feel a need to go on Ebay and buy a nice chandelier.
Forgive me if that sounds nuts. I just barely finished my cup of coffee.
lctorana
Flashlight Enthusiast
Not at all.
Pretty light fittings that only suit incan bulbs must be being trashed all the time at the minute.
Some delightful stuff must be there for the asking.
Good idea.
Pretty light fittings that only suit incan bulbs must be being trashed all the time at the minute.
Some delightful stuff must be there for the asking.
Good idea.
M@elstrom, thanks for the reply. I was aware that there were already attempts under way in Congress to ban incans in the United States, but I had forgetton which bill relates to this.
I was just being silly with irony maxilux.... by referring to the mercury content within CFL bulbs and trading one "evil" for another. Nothing intended to be serious. 🙂
I took what maxilux posted--like most people using CFL's--they have no awareness of the mercury content/hazardous cleanup guidelines.
I know the ones I tried and hated, got tossed in my garbage can with the turkey carcass. It is the same with assorted dead batteries--almost everyone goes for the convenience of tossing in their trash, while in some cases posting they "recycled" them.
Flashfirstask?later
Enlightened
Regular CFL's are not so much better than incandescent bulbs in places that have cold winters as it was found people were using or increasing the temperature with furnace heat more to compensate for the loss of some heat that the incandescents provided in some rooms. The CFL's were made for warmer places in mind.
Have to look for the Osram bulbs to see what prices and options that exist here.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
Indeed. I was talking with the owner of an art gallery one day and he:
1. Would never dream of using anything other than halogens to illuminate the artwork.
2. Didn't have to use the heating system much in the winter with all those halogen lamps burning,
but,
3. Had a heck of an air conditioning bill on hot summer days!
1. Would never dream of using anything other than halogens to illuminate the artwork.
2. Didn't have to use the heating system much in the winter with all those halogen lamps burning,
but,
3. Had a heck of an air conditioning bill on hot summer days!
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
Oh and mercury is indeed a definite downside! It is NOT good when dumped into the environment, and is NOT good when it gets into your system. Not good at all.
And, just as a bit of trivia, mercury is really bad for the HY100 steel in some nuclear submarines. When I worked at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard on Seavey Island, they were VERY VERY serious about fluorescent tubes and their disposal, and no fluorescent lighting was used on board the Los Angeles class submarines--or anywhere even close. But that has not much bearing on our discussion!
Back OT, you know that many, if not most, people will improperly dispose of CFL lamps by just tossing them in the trash. And that's a big deal. A much bigger deal than a bit more CO2 in the atmosphere!
For myself, I'm very careful about disposing of such things and do NOT throw them in the trash. Most towns will have resources available to you for proper disposal of such things as NiCd batteries or CFL's. Check it out.
And, just as a bit of trivia, mercury is really bad for the HY100 steel in some nuclear submarines. When I worked at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard on Seavey Island, they were VERY VERY serious about fluorescent tubes and their disposal, and no fluorescent lighting was used on board the Los Angeles class submarines--or anywhere even close. But that has not much bearing on our discussion!
Back OT, you know that many, if not most, people will improperly dispose of CFL lamps by just tossing them in the trash. And that's a big deal. A much bigger deal than a bit more CO2 in the atmosphere!
For myself, I'm very careful about disposing of such things and do NOT throw them in the trash. Most towns will have resources available to you for proper disposal of such things as NiCd batteries or CFL's. Check it out.
Agreed. At least CO2 is supposed to be in the atmosphere as compared to mercury in our drinking water.
That sounds like one heck of an interesting job you had at on Seavey Island Js. Interesting about the steal and mercury too. The sounded hyper sensitive about it, probably for good reason.
M@elstrom
Flashlight Enthusiast
You're most welcome... I thought our politico-jabber-ese was difficult to wade through, boy did I learn something perusing those US papers
StefanFS, that's a charging jack aside your 'sawn-off' Maglite host yes? SWEET! 😀
I wonder if German sailors notice the same problems, which may lead to exceptions in their ban?
http://warisboring.com/?p=2168
http://warisboring.com/?p=2168
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
Patriot,
It was interesting in some ways, and excruciatingly boring in other ways. I won't go into it unless someone really wants to know, but let's just say that it was a long year. Still, as I say, there certainly were interesting things about it.
Anyway, I remembered that the Los Angeles class submarines used HY80 steel, not HY100. I also wonder just how many Los Angeles class submarines are still in service, as they were superceded by the Seawolf class (which does use HY100).
Whatever . . . the point is that it's impossible to reconcile what they told me at PSNSY about fluorescent tubes and mercury, with the link Lux posted above. Unless, somehow, the steel is only vulnerable when bare? When a submarine came in to dry dock, many areas of it, especially ballast tanks, would get sandblasted clean and repainted. Also, if it needed refueling they would cut a big hole in the hull with a carbon arc cutter!!!. And this would then need to be carefully, carefully re-welded by expert welders, and they would check the weld with x-ray imaging. Pretty crazy stuff. It was a thick hull skin, too. Two or more inches, if I remember correctly.
Anyway, my thought is maybe that the painted HY80 or HY100, isn't bothered by a bit of mercury vapor? Not sure. But if they are using CFL's on submarines it's got to be something like that, as you know they will get broken from time to time, right?
One of the guys I worked with used to be a submariner, and he said it pretty much sucked, and that when he wasn't on shift he was in his rack, sleeping.
I suppose the coolness-factor of being on a submarine, hundreds of feet below the surface of the ocean, would wear off pretty quickly. LOL! For myself, I can tell you that I loved going on board the submarines, especially when they weren't in dry dock. Amazing. Atmospheric. Like something out of a movie. Sadly, I never went into the reactor room. I had the clearance, but not the need. I tried to convince one of the senior engineers training me to come up with some excuse for us to visit the reactor room, but he wasn't buying it. Ah, well. I was a fire control electronics engineer, --by title anyway. Really I was a technical writer who wrote work instructions for the technicians who would be doing the work. I did a lot of consulting drawings and specs and procedures and so on, checking part numbers and fiddly little details like that, but not really much in the way of actual engineering. That's OK, though.
The control room here where I work now at Cornell's particle accelerator is pretty damned cool, too, and I don't think the coolness factor has worn off yet. And, I actually do science and engineering, from time to time. Boys and their toys and playing in the dirt and making stuff and learning stuff. That's the atmosphere here. Couldn't realistically be better!
And . . . we use low-level incandescent lamps down-lighting the work surface areas in the control room. No freaking fluorescents! And, I pretty much own the control room when it comes to details like that, and I can tell you we will NEVER switch to CFL's for the low-level constant lighting in there (it's very dimly lit, so we can see our scopes and readouts and stuff). And if there's a ban coming, I will pre-order like 1,000 lamps and set them aside. LOL! We still use R-12 Freon in some of our systems in the ring, if that tells you anything about the attitude here.
It was interesting in some ways, and excruciatingly boring in other ways. I won't go into it unless someone really wants to know, but let's just say that it was a long year. Still, as I say, there certainly were interesting things about it.
Anyway, I remembered that the Los Angeles class submarines used HY80 steel, not HY100. I also wonder just how many Los Angeles class submarines are still in service, as they were superceded by the Seawolf class (which does use HY100).
Whatever . . . the point is that it's impossible to reconcile what they told me at PSNSY about fluorescent tubes and mercury, with the link Lux posted above. Unless, somehow, the steel is only vulnerable when bare? When a submarine came in to dry dock, many areas of it, especially ballast tanks, would get sandblasted clean and repainted. Also, if it needed refueling they would cut a big hole in the hull with a carbon arc cutter!!!. And this would then need to be carefully, carefully re-welded by expert welders, and they would check the weld with x-ray imaging. Pretty crazy stuff. It was a thick hull skin, too. Two or more inches, if I remember correctly.
Anyway, my thought is maybe that the painted HY80 or HY100, isn't bothered by a bit of mercury vapor? Not sure. But if they are using CFL's on submarines it's got to be something like that, as you know they will get broken from time to time, right?
One of the guys I worked with used to be a submariner, and he said it pretty much sucked, and that when he wasn't on shift he was in his rack, sleeping.
I suppose the coolness-factor of being on a submarine, hundreds of feet below the surface of the ocean, would wear off pretty quickly. LOL! For myself, I can tell you that I loved going on board the submarines, especially when they weren't in dry dock. Amazing. Atmospheric. Like something out of a movie. Sadly, I never went into the reactor room. I had the clearance, but not the need. I tried to convince one of the senior engineers training me to come up with some excuse for us to visit the reactor room, but he wasn't buying it. Ah, well. I was a fire control electronics engineer, --by title anyway. Really I was a technical writer who wrote work instructions for the technicians who would be doing the work. I did a lot of consulting drawings and specs and procedures and so on, checking part numbers and fiddly little details like that, but not really much in the way of actual engineering. That's OK, though.
The control room here where I work now at Cornell's particle accelerator is pretty damned cool, too, and I don't think the coolness factor has worn off yet. And, I actually do science and engineering, from time to time. Boys and their toys and playing in the dirt and making stuff and learning stuff. That's the atmosphere here. Couldn't realistically be better!
And . . . we use low-level incandescent lamps down-lighting the work surface areas in the control room. No freaking fluorescents! And, I pretty much own the control room when it comes to details like that, and I can tell you we will NEVER switch to CFL's for the low-level constant lighting in there (it's very dimly lit, so we can see our scopes and readouts and stuff). And if there's a ban coming, I will pre-order like 1,000 lamps and set them aside. LOL! We still use R-12 Freon in some of our systems in the ring, if that tells you anything about the attitude here.
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I would really like to know, if you wouldn't mind sharing. It sounds fascinating.
JS,
I've appreciated many of your posts in then past but didn't know you worked with an accelerator. You can see by my post count that my forum experience level is low. So please PM me or suggest where I might post questions for you if you're willing to share your experience. I'm interested in what kind of degree you hold and your experience as an engineer. I've been a Biomed by trade for 18 years & just returned to school in pursuit of an EE. There are many things I want to learn to do and I'm hoping to discover the knowledge at the University.
Best regards,
RAD
I've appreciated many of your posts in then past but didn't know you worked with an accelerator. You can see by my post count that my forum experience level is low. So please PM me or suggest where I might post questions for you if you're willing to share your experience. I'm interested in what kind of degree you hold and your experience as an engineer. I've been a Biomed by trade for 18 years & just returned to school in pursuit of an EE. There are many things I want to learn to do and I'm hoping to discover the knowledge at the University.
Best regards,
RAD
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
RAD,
If you like, I can post a sort of "where I work" thread in the CAFE, about the accelerator. I went around taking a bunch of pictures of it for just that purpose. I had been planning on posting this sort of a thread in the underground, but there's no reason I can't post it in the CAFE.
And please feel free to PM me with any more pressing questions you might have before that thread gets posted. It will take me a couple weeks to finish it.
Monocrom,
Been meaning to PM you, actually . . . LOL!
But, OK, the slightly longer version of my experience as an electronics engineer for the Navy is that initially I spent A LOT of time sitting around, doing absolutely nothing constructive. A course here, a training session there, a few pointers from a senior engineer now and again, and so on. Every day I used to go around to all the engineers asking them if I could do anything for them. Anything. Get them coffee. Photocopy drawings. Drop off their dry cleaning. (joking about that last.) But seriously. I was so, so bored.
And aparently, this sort of non-productivity used to be the norm for much of the time. People did a lot of sitting around between projects. There was even a joke that my wife heard while we were living there in Southern Maine about these two guys who both used to work at the shipyard, and who both applied to the same firm (not the shipyard) for a job, one, then the other a month or so later. The first guy was asked if he ever worked at the shipyard, and he said "No" and they said "Good, because we don't hire anyone from the shipyard".
Then, a month later, his friend applies and they ask him the same question and he says "yes" he worked there, and they refuse him, and he says "but you hired my friend Joe, and he worked at the shipyard."
So, the boss goes up to Joe and says "You told me you never worked at the shipyard but we just interviewed your friend, and he says you were there for 10 years."
And Joe says "Yup. That's right. I was there for 10 years and never did a lick of work."
Sitting in a cubicle for 8 hours a day, staring at freaking government procedure manuals and a computer screen (not allowed to surf the net) and having NOTHING REAL to do, was sheer, UTTER, HELL. I had a calendar on my wall and at the end of every day, I would "X" out the box, with the grim satisfaction that there were only 365 days in a year, and that eventually, finally, it would have to end.
But, when I did have stuff to do, which happened more and more frequently towards the end, it wasn't nearly so bad. And I got to go for a week of training at NewPort and got to check out a Seawolf (which, and this is just SO funny--the sailors used to call the "pier wolf" because it spent so much time docked at the pier due to problems), and I got to train on the firecontrol system for the torpedos. It was freaking HUGE. Bomb-proof. And locked in a concrete walled, windowless room with a SAFE DOOR as the entry. I kid you not. Combination lock and everything. That was worthwhile and educational. And there were some good people there. But, overall, my job here is way, way, WAY better!
OK. I probably shouldn't drag this thread any further off topic. People can PM me with further questions, and/or wait until the CAFE thread on the accelerator.
Lux, if you want, I can edit this post and turn it into a PM for Monocrom. Please feel completely free to ask me to do this if you'd like this thread to be a bit more on topic.
If you like, I can post a sort of "where I work" thread in the CAFE, about the accelerator. I went around taking a bunch of pictures of it for just that purpose. I had been planning on posting this sort of a thread in the underground, but there's no reason I can't post it in the CAFE.
And please feel free to PM me with any more pressing questions you might have before that thread gets posted. It will take me a couple weeks to finish it.
Monocrom,
Been meaning to PM you, actually . . . LOL!
But, OK, the slightly longer version of my experience as an electronics engineer for the Navy is that initially I spent A LOT of time sitting around, doing absolutely nothing constructive. A course here, a training session there, a few pointers from a senior engineer now and again, and so on. Every day I used to go around to all the engineers asking them if I could do anything for them. Anything. Get them coffee. Photocopy drawings. Drop off their dry cleaning. (joking about that last.) But seriously. I was so, so bored.
And aparently, this sort of non-productivity used to be the norm for much of the time. People did a lot of sitting around between projects. There was even a joke that my wife heard while we were living there in Southern Maine about these two guys who both used to work at the shipyard, and who both applied to the same firm (not the shipyard) for a job, one, then the other a month or so later. The first guy was asked if he ever worked at the shipyard, and he said "No" and they said "Good, because we don't hire anyone from the shipyard".
Then, a month later, his friend applies and they ask him the same question and he says "yes" he worked there, and they refuse him, and he says "but you hired my friend Joe, and he worked at the shipyard."
So, the boss goes up to Joe and says "You told me you never worked at the shipyard but we just interviewed your friend, and he says you were there for 10 years."
And Joe says "Yup. That's right. I was there for 10 years and never did a lick of work."
Sitting in a cubicle for 8 hours a day, staring at freaking government procedure manuals and a computer screen (not allowed to surf the net) and having NOTHING REAL to do, was sheer, UTTER, HELL. I had a calendar on my wall and at the end of every day, I would "X" out the box, with the grim satisfaction that there were only 365 days in a year, and that eventually, finally, it would have to end.
But, when I did have stuff to do, which happened more and more frequently towards the end, it wasn't nearly so bad. And I got to go for a week of training at NewPort and got to check out a Seawolf (which, and this is just SO funny--the sailors used to call the "pier wolf" because it spent so much time docked at the pier due to problems), and I got to train on the firecontrol system for the torpedos. It was freaking HUGE. Bomb-proof. And locked in a concrete walled, windowless room with a SAFE DOOR as the entry. I kid you not. Combination lock and everything. That was worthwhile and educational. And there were some good people there. But, overall, my job here is way, way, WAY better!
OK. I probably shouldn't drag this thread any further off topic. People can PM me with further questions, and/or wait until the CAFE thread on the accelerator.
Lux, if you want, I can edit this post and turn it into a PM for Monocrom. Please feel completely free to ask me to do this if you'd like this thread to be a bit more on topic.
Icebreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
Just to torture myself, I guess; I keep a warm CFL in a hallway. Really, I haven't grown weary of my fascination of how truly awful it is. It's like the worst of both worlds to me. Kinda brownish looking and still lacking soul. At least the hot stuff has an attitude. What hell on earth it would be to be stuck in a sub with weird light all the time.
OFF topic, somewhat. I was surprised to read that the USS Toledo was a Los Angeles class attack sub. Interesting.
See, this real world stuff I can relate too, you know, professional experiences tell a larger tale than the tale itself. I'm the senior software development engineer in this gigantic organization. I can have about what I want in our laboratory. We use this for development of interrelated software packages used to crunch thousands and thousands of tables of rapidly updated information. We like to test in multiple environments simultaneously and get real time, measurable readouts on data performance. I use several projectors so I can pretty much well light up a large wall with a running project. Looks like something from NASA.
Well, I've thought about this before but now I think I'm going to go ahead and spec incandescent spots for the stations. We just need to see the keyboards and notes and watch the projections. Incans would be perfect here. Thanks for the inspiration, js.
Heck, I'm looking at Ebay for desk chandeliers for our private offices...but that's another thread.
OFF topic, somewhat. I was surprised to read that the USS Toledo was a Los Angeles class attack sub. Interesting.
See, this real world stuff I can relate too, you know, professional experiences tell a larger tale than the tale itself. I'm the senior software development engineer in this gigantic organization. I can have about what I want in our laboratory. We use this for development of interrelated software packages used to crunch thousands and thousands of tables of rapidly updated information. We like to test in multiple environments simultaneously and get real time, measurable readouts on data performance. I use several projectors so I can pretty much well light up a large wall with a running project. Looks like something from NASA.
Well, I've thought about this before but now I think I'm going to go ahead and spec incandescent spots for the stations. We just need to see the keyboards and notes and watch the projections. Incans would be perfect here. Thanks for the inspiration, js.
Heck, I'm looking at Ebay for desk chandeliers for our private offices...but that's another thread.
Thanks for the reply, js.
And, I definitely know what it's like to be bored off your @$$ at work on a daily basis.
And, I definitely know what it's like to be bored off your @$$ at work on a daily basis.
StefanFS
Flashlight Enthusiast
You're most welcome... I thought our politico-jabber-ese was difficult to wade through, boy did I learn something perusing those US papers
StefanFS, that's a charging jack aside your 'sawn-off' Maglite host yes? SWEET! 😀
Yes, it is. And the scene is lit by a few ES 20 Watt (13-14 Watt each really) halogen bulbs!
Official EU incandescent ban schedule is:
1/09/2009: 100W and all frosted glass
1/09/2010: 75W
1/09/2011: 60W
1/09/2012: 40 and 25W
EU research on lighting is posted here:
http://www.eup4light.net/
Check also interesting questions posted to European Commission:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+P-2009-0146+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN
and answers:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=P-2009-0146&language=EN
As for me - a flat where I live had CFLs "grandfathered" from previous locator. I was willing to experiment, but I eventually replaced them with incandescent bulbs due to poor usability: long warm-up times, poor colours (yellowish or blueish). I also had an impression (purely subjective) that I have to crank the heating up during winter. Incandescents "waste" energy as heat, but in winter this is a good side effect ;-)
I am used to saving energy by switching off unused lights and electric appliances. Compared to people who leave their lights/tv/... on in multiple rooms all the time this saves approximately as much energy as moving to CFL technology, but with better (for me) light quality.
Am I going to hoard bulbs? Perhaps. I do not like being constrained in my choice (=tried CFLs, did not like them). Moving to CFLs would probably require redesign of lighting system - placement and power of each fixture - to fit CFL characteristics. This is an additional cost.
Regardless of technological merits, this is a very subjective discussion.
