Getting my feet wet with incans

[jkilo]

Hi all! I've got a growing number of LED lights, mostly cool-white, and a few warms.

I hate the way my LED lights all make me feel I'm floating in some kind of 2-dimensional dream when I walk around my yard at night, and the grass is dewey.

I was in Ace hardware recently, and they had some of the 3D "magnum star" lamps laying in the clearance bin, and I thought I'd grab one for my 4D "head-cracker" that I keep near the front door. Wow! Nice and white! I had no idea incans could look so nice. And no more "weird, floaty" effect.

So I started lurking this part of the forum... And was looking at streamlight's "hybrid" LED/incan, but a few of you steered me away from it, saying the aviator was superior.


Well, I picked up a magcharger at bass pro shop. As an aside, I grabbed a G2 nitrolon, too, just to see what the Surefire fuss was about, and that seems to be their "entry-level" light. I got the "P61" 120L drop-in, too, because 65 lumens just wasn't going to cut it.

The magcharger is sweet, no doubt. But for it's size, the G2 really blew me away! Oddly enough, the P61 drop-in failed to impress after seeing the stock lamp. Not enough throw.

Where to go from here? The Aviator really has my eye, now that I understand "surefire-lumens," but the few comparison shots I've found show it's incan beam being both yellower and less throwy than the G2's.

Is this a correct assessment? The G2 is already one shade from too yellow, and it could use a touch more throw. Should I be looking at something other than the A2? Rechargeables are an option, and I'm not opposed to modding a really nice incan with an LED secondary beam. This will be my EDC.

Sorry for the long post, I'm stoked to be on the incan trail, instead of the never-ending pursuit of the perfect LED.

 

[Brigadier]

I'd look at a Lumens Factory Seraph SP-9, D36 mini TurboHead, and an HO-9L D36 drop with 2x 18500's or something similar.

Also, I am quite pleased with Cabela's XPG 9V Xenon 9P clone with their mini turbo head. Very surprising for the $$.

 

[jkilo]

Ok, Brigadier, I'll check those out. Ok size for EDC? I'm an electrician, so I can probably deal with something bigger than the typical quark, which is my EDC now.

 

[Brigadier]

Incans really suffer under 9V, so these lights are 1 battery length longer than your G2. Don't know how you EDC your lights, a belt holster will work.

 

[Chrontius]

I find the Aviator much whiter than the P60 on anything but the freshest batteries. It's also supposed to throw way out of proportion to its size, which is a bit tighter than the P60, IMO.

 

[leukos]

9V incans are a nice place to start. A G3, 9P or equivalent puts out a decent number of lumens while still being compact. It can easily switch between primaries and rechargeables. A P90 lamp, for example will stay whiter on rechargeables than on primaries, and will last many more hours as well.

 

[Linger]

Jkilo - I recommend you keep the Quark for long-run-time electrician work. (Quark run-time on rechargables is damn good)

For incan goodness, are you going to be serious?
If so, forget all the intermediate steps, go straight for the bi-pin bulbs.
You can use FM G4 Sunlight assembly for metal p60 (C2/P6/Solarforce, Lumens factory, etc) hosts, most likely with 2x18500 or larger cell capacity (AW IMR 26500's are great).

Or +2D m@g's with an AW soft-start or a KIU socket with Alan's regulator or Jimmy's regulator. For the m@gs you'll use multi AA / sub AA / or sub 'C' nimh power packs, 26xxx or larger IMR cells. You can't imagine how much incan's rock when you've got them regulated with multi-mode.

So forget all the P90 lamps, the Lumensfactory lamps, the wolfeyes, the Surefire A2's or whatever. Go right for the bi-pins and you'll have output options to suit any mood.

Linger

 

[Conte]

+1

Check my profile for threads I've started, there are some helpful how to tutorials.

 

[jaundice]

I agree wholeheartedly with our Canadian friends in the above posts. However, you already have a bi-pin light; your magcharger.

Now, I don't know much specifically about magchargers (I'm almost 100% Li-ion), but from what I've read, you can easily replace the bulb with a 5761 or similar bulb for screaming performance. The one issue is that you can easily put a bulb in there that will melt the reflector and plastic bulb holder in heavy use (Intermittent use will be fine). If melting is an issue, Fivemega makes a metal "slug" and magcharger reflector the eliminates these issues. Oh, and replace the plastic lens with a glass lens, and you're good to go. If the battery run time isn't enough, you can replace the battery with a Nimh version that gives you 4000 ma. Overall, the magcharger is a pretty decent starting point for a hotwire light, especially since you already have one. The only real "next step" after a magcharger is to go with a li-ion battery source and regulation.

Good luck!

-John

 

[Point Source]

I second the notion of bi-pin bulbs. If I'm not mistaken, G4 bulbs can be dropped directly in your magcharger with little or no modification (depending on heat) for serious increases in output.

The stock bulb is around 11W if I remember correctly. I'd suggest getting a WA 01111 20W bulb, and a Phillips 5761 30W. With the 11W, 20W and 30W bulbs, you can fine tune the output and runtime to suit whatever task you have in mind. That's how I use my 7.2V 2D bi-pin build, and its a really nice and flexible setup.

The heat generated from the WA 01111 shouldn't be a problem, but you may need to approach the 5761 with some caution. Do a search for "magcharger 5761", there's some good stuff to be found.

 

[jkilo]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions.

My magcharger came with the new NiMh battery stick, and I'd guess it has the newer lamp as well, tho I'm not sure. I'd certainly be willing to upgrade, but not so much that it'd require a battery conversion, I have the "docking" charger mounted, and it's quite handy!

Wouldn't most of the typical magcharger hotwire lamps be underdriven on 6 volts as well?

I have a 3D magnum-star lamp in a 4D mag, and it's very white, but not very bright.

As for the surefire, I should leave the plastic G2 as is, since it's 2 cell configuration won't cut it at higher outputs?

The "mini" D36-style turbo-head sounds like a great idea! should make it easier to stuff an xp-e or nichia in there for a long-runtime secondary flood, ala A2.


I also like the idea of 2 x 18500s in a 3-cell host, but, even off a fresh charge, they'll only be supplying around 8.4 volts, which would underdrive 9v lamps, correct? I'm looking for something very WHITE, whiter than my P60.

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[Brigadier]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions.

My magcharger came with the new NiMh battery stick, and I'd guess it has the newer lamp as well, tho I'm not sure. I'd certainly be willing to upgrade, but not so much that it'd require a battery conversion, I have the "docking" charger mounted, and it's quite handy!

Wouldn't most of the typical magcharger hotwire lamps be underdriven on 6 volts as well?

I have a 3D magnum-star lamp in a 4D mag, and it's very white, but not very bright.

As for the surefire, I should leave the plastic G2 as is, since it's 2 cell configuration won't cut it at higher outputs?

The "mini" D36-style turbo-head sounds like a great idea! should make it easier to stuff an xp-e or nichia in there for a long-runtime secondary flood, ala A2.


I also like the idea of 2 x 18500s in a 3-cell host, but, even off a fresh charge, they'll only be supplying around 8.4 volts, which would underdrive 9v lamps, correct? I'm looking for something very WHITE, whiter than my P60.

Sorry for all the questions!

I cannot distinguish any difference in my D36 HO-9L's beam color between 2X18500 or 3XCR123.

 

[KeyGrip]

I also like the idea of 2 x 18500s in a 3-cell host, but, even off a fresh charge, they'll only be supplying around 8.4 volts, which would underdrive 9v lamps, correct? I'm looking for something very WHITE, whiter than my P60.

Yes, but 9v is the nominal rating. Most 9v lamps are designed to be happy with a 9v cell configuration under load, which depending on the intended cell chemistry can be significantly less than 9v. Li-Ion cells hold their voltage very well, so they will usually drive or overdrive a lamp just fine.

A long thread, but definitely worth the time if you're getting into 6-12v incan setups based around the SureFire C/P series is mdocod's scholarly guide on the subject of lamp and cell combinations.

 

[RobertM]

You won't be disappointed with an A2 Aviator. With its built-in regulator, you get bright white incand light for the entire run of the batteries. No dimming and turning more yellow as the cells deplete.

-Robert

 

[mdocod]

Your G2 P60 is a ~4.8V bulb, and the P61, more like a 4.3V bulb.

They are not 6V bulbs

In fact, 6V would blow a P61.

With that in mind, you can put to rest any concerns about under-driving a supposed "9V" tactical lamp assembly with only ~7.4V nominal from a pair of li-ion cells.

Flashlight "lamp assemblies" are often labeled by the manufacture as being the voltage that would be the sum of the cells used if measured open circuit. This is done to reduce confusion amongst consumers. It only adds confusion when you start to dig a little deeper.

As for what light to give a whirl. You have made mention that you prefer the whiter side of incan. Most tactical lamp assemblies designed for a particular battery configuration are going to run about that same whiteness as the P60/P61 you are used to. Getting above that requires driving bulbs harder and reducing their life-span. This is a tradeoff that you will have to decide on. General rule of thumb is that driving SF HOLA lamps on decidedly compatible li-ion cells results in this over-drive, as do most of the popularly discussed bi-pin bulbs for various 2-4+ cell configurations of li-ion cells.

Before doing anything, decide if you want throw or flood. We can help guide you from there.

Eric

 

[angelofwar]

Just get a Sure-Fire M4 and be done with it!!! LOL!

For the rest of you CPF'ers, any other mass porduced xenon lights that can out throw the M4? Even my M6 can't, due to the tighter hot-spot of the M4.

Actually, OP, you can just get a KT1-BK Turbo-head with N1 lamp...that's a nice thrower, and you'll get to keep it "sock" (all SF). Then you can get the r/c kit, and have guilt free lumens. My G2-BK with the turbo-head was one of my favourite lights...:mecry: