Going to have a 4AA, comparing bulb and battery combos

Tater Rocket

Enlightened
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Jun 25, 2001
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Close to St. Louis, MO, school at Rolla
(Keyboard Dvorak mode: Off for typing speed (I am just learning the Dvorak keyboard setup, have had it for a couple days))

Ok, I am going to discuss different options for the Double Barrel 4AA and want some advice also. I could:

1. Stick with stock bulb and battery combo
2. Rewire for 6 volts and run off of that
3. Find a 6AA bulb, rewire for all series, use NiMH's, and run that
4. Run NiMH's as is and use an R30 bulb
5. Run NiMH's (AA's) in series and run a p60 or p61
6. Take out the spacers, use 123's (3) and run a p90 or p91 (and have a spare set of 123's in the other barrel
7. Take out spaces, use 2/3 A NiMH's (1000 mAH or so) and get 7.2 volts (all series, 6 total). This could run a p60 lamp. However, will the voltage drop be enough to not burn out the lamp early? Will the voltage drop be enough with the p61? I am thinking this would over-drive the bulb.
8. Take out spacers, use nimh A's (2700 mAH), run all series (for 4.8 volts) and run a p60 (for nearly 2 and a half hours!) or a p61 (for over an hour!!!)

What I need is your advice as to what I should do. Surefire lamp assemblies are quite expensive as I'm sure you all know. So, with that, I do not want to take the risk of blowing one of them by over-driving it or under-driving it. Do you all know sources of the correct sized bi-pin bulbs that will fit in the 4AA other than the (for me) hard to find WA bulbs, or underwater kinetics bulbs (though the 5.8 watt bulb doesn't seem too bad)?

Well, I need to go practice typing on the dvorak layout, then clean my car out for prom.

Spudgunr
 
Tater:

Bottom Line:

1.)I'll run a P90 with 6 123's in two of my DB 4 AAs. I expect the bulb to be overdriven by 14% to about 140 lumens, and I expect it to have a 2 hour run time.

2.) I'll run the UKE 5.8 W bulb for their 4D-cell lights with 4 NiMh's in my other DB 4AA's. I expect this to generate 90 to 97 lumens.

3.) I fear the DB 6AA Xenon bulb will be too overdriven with 4 AA NiMh's but will be just right with 4 AAA NiMh's. My DB 6AA bulbs will be dedicated to DB 4AAA's

What is an R30 bulb, and will it fit in a T-2 1/4 slot?

If you run 6 123's in serial / parallel I'm aftaid you'd overdrive the P91 enough to fry it.

Curiously, 6 123's in parallel would overdrive the P90 less than the P91 because the P90 normally runs at 7.35 V rather than the 6.25 V that the P90 draws.

I estimate that the 6 123 configuration will run at about 8.4 V at .6 A per cell with the P90 vs. about 7.6 V at 1.2 A per cell with the P91. This overdrives a modestly driven P90 by 14% while the normally pushed P91 would be overdriven by 22%.

The P90 is touted by SF as a long life LA while the P91 isn't. I'm going to do at least one P90 6 123 parallel setup my self. My guess is that the P 90 overdriving of about 14% will increase brightness about 25% from 105 lumens to about 140 lumens. Life will probably be long ehough be worthwhile, and run time should reach 2 hours. The amperage draw per cell of .6 is less than the .7 on the E1.

I'd rather run my E2 than drive a P60 with a DB 4AA. I may set up another DB 4AA to run the P61 with 4 NiMhs. This might not be a good idea if Brock is right in saying that the P61 draws 3.75 V on 2 123's. 4 Nimhs should deliver 4.4 V. It may not be a long life good idea to overdrive a relatively short life bulb by 17%. On the other hand, YCLO says he found that 2 123's drew move voltage with a P61 than Brock reports.

I've been looking at the UKE 5.8 W bulb for their 4d cell alkaline lights. I think this bulb is an optimisticly rated WA 1307 with a design voltage of 4.8 Volts, design amperage of 1.10, design Wattage of 5.3 and 104 Lumens. At this amperage, I guess that 4 Nimhs would underdrive the bulb at between 4.6 and 4.7 volts which WA says would generate 90 to 97 lumens at 5.1 to 5.2 watts.

The UKE bulb is a cheaper and 50% brighter choice than a P60. The UKE bulb should be totally temperature safe for any length run.

Some of the better Xenon DB 6AA bulb bulbs appear to be WA 01286 with a design voltage of 4.2, 0.7 amperage, and 53 lumens. W/A's overdriving table only goes up to 4.6 V on this lamp. At that level the lamp puts out 74 lumens with a 6 hour life. I think the DB 4AAA will drive this bulb at < 4.6 V with NiMh's and the DB 4AA will exceed 4.6 V. Thus, I'm coming to the conclusion that the DB 6AA bulbs should only be used in the DB 4AAA.
 
Bottom Line:

1.)I'll run a P90 with 6 123's in two of my DB 4 AAs. I expect the bulb to be overdriven by 14% to about 150 lumens, and I expect it to have a 2 hour run time.


Ahh, but I can not afford 6 123's. I can
BARELY afford 2 (can't afford, and don't need, a larger buy at a couple dollars each).

What is an R30 bulb, and will it fit in a T-2 1/4 slot?

It is the single cell lamp assembly for the 3P, and you mod it just like the other lamp assemblies.

If you run 6 123's in serial / parallel I'm aftaid you'd overdrive the P91 enough to fry it.

Ahh, miscommunication. When I said I'd have a spare set in the other barrel, I meant have a piece of paper or other insulator guarding the contacts. Then, when the batteries are needed, simply unscrew the caps, put the insulator on the old batteries, then screw caps back on. After both sets are pretty much run down, take the insulator out alltogether and get a few more minutes off of the series/parallel setup.

I'd rather run my E2 than drive a P60 with a DB 4AA. I may set up another DB 4AA to run the P61 with 4 NiMhs. This might not be a good idea if Brock is right in saying that the P61 draws 3.75 V on 2 123's. 4 Nimhs should deliver 4.4 V. It may not be a long life good idea to overdrive a relatively short life bulb by 17%. On the other hand, YCLO says he found that 2 123's drew move voltage with a P61 than Brock reports.

Ahh, but being 17 and jobless, I cannot afford an E2. Could somebody test a p61 under load for voltage with 123's and 4 1600 mAH AA cells? I'd like to know, because if I wanted the brightness of a p60 I could just use my LX, or magite with scorpion bulb, etc. A p61 sounds nice though. Anybody know the bulb life of a p61 compared to p60?

I've been looking at the UKE 5.8 W bulb for their 4d cell alkaline lights. I think this bulb is an optimisticly rated WA 1307 with a design voltage of 4.8 Volts....

Yeah, it wouldn't really give me much of an advantage. It would be about as bright as an LX, but the advantage WOULD be that it ran off of rechargable AA's (actually, would probably use 4 A cells instead, can get 2700 mAH compared to 1800 mAH MAX for AA's, but they cost like $6 each :( )

I guess I'd need to find a cheap source of A cell NiMH's before I worried about that too much, but I could be testing with the AA's.

Oh, regarding the testing of p61 under load off of 123's and AA nimh's, if anybody can do this too, it'd be great. Can somebody test them on NiMH Sub-C cells around 2500-3000 mAH? That would simulate the A cells I could use in the light, and they should drop less voltage than the AA's. Although, that MAY be a BAD thing depending on the actual running voltage of the p61. I don't know how much 2700 mAH batteries would drop in voltage off of a 2.3 amp load. If it actually ran around 4.0 to 4.8 volts, that would be great, but I think if I wanted to run the p61 it would have to be off of AA's so it would voltage drop more (but those are cheaper too, so there is a plus).

Spud
 
Im running the 6AA bulb with NiMhs in both 4AAA and 4AA and have good results - nice bright white beam and with optional wrightright an even better one - both run the bulb at around 4.4V or so - no real voltage difference between my Sanyo AA and AAA NiMh cells - and not too overdriven IMO.

The 01307 is a bit underdriven and is my choice right now for the 4AA - not much brighter than the 6AA bulb - more yellow.

I personally do not plan to use any Surefire LAs nor 123s in those - the SF LA´s and 123 will stay in my E2 (soon E2e) and the run-down 123s will soon find a home in the ARC LS - for more brightness needs I can still use my 750lu 12V 20W halogen Lightsaber ™
tongue.gif


Klaus
 
Tater:

Based on some of Klaus' other posts, I would expect aa NiMh AA's to deliver 1.1 V between 2.0 amps and 3.0 amps. I expect NiMh's to generate 1.2 V at .7 Amps, but I don't have a feel for the shape of the voltage drop curve between .7 amps and 2.0 amps. That's why I figured that the 4 AA's would drive the P61 with 4.4 Volts. I pointed out the inconsistency between Brock's measurement of 2 @ 123's and a P61 @ 3.75 V and YCLO's measurement (on slightly used 123 batteries) of 4.58 V from 2@ 123's. YCLO measured the P61 and 4 AA NiMhs at 4.42 V, but only got 3.84 V out of 4 AA NiMh's. Klaus' comments on the voltage drop equivalency of AAA and AA niMhs could mean that one or more of YCLO's AAA NiMh's were too weak.

I'm glad to hear from Klaus that the DB 6AA bulb doesn't appear to be fatally overdriven in the DB 4AA's with NiMhs. I can try them and move to 01307's when they die.

I just bought 25 223's for $35, so I'm willing to put 6 @ $0.70 batteries into a DB 4AA with a P90 that will basically be an emergency light that I'll play with a little. I would otherwise never have a P90.

I guess I'm writing as much on this topic as I am because deep in my mind I haven't decided.

Since I think I'll be receiving some more DB 6AA's I'll definitely put money into some P91's for them and the DB 8AA. I'll try to avoid going broke on the DB 4AA's by burning up the DB 6AA bulbs there first and risking the purchase of just one P61.

Klaus, what sort of voltage will a Lithium AA deliver under the 0.70 amp draw of the DB 8AA bulb? Would it be close to the 1.375 V needed to drive the bulb at its design voltage? If so, maybe it might make sense to put $9 of batteries into $8 DB 4AAs and stash them away with DB 8AA lamps as emergency lights. Maybe I should just put the DB 8AA lamps into the spare bulb holders and hope I never have to use them.
 
Lemlux,

I think using 4 Lithium AAs in the DB4AA and driving a 8AA bulb using the 4AAs in serial mode is a good idea - this should be pretty much around the originals 8AA bulb 5.5V design spec IMO. With the nice brightness at good size and long shelf life for the cells this is a neat emergency setup at a price you almost can´t beat - and the AAs will be very easy to replace with whatever you have at hand later on - and using the 8AA bulb you can also throw in whatever you want with some reduced brightness / runtime for Alkalines.

Klaus
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:

......maybe it might make sense to put $9 of batteries into $8 DB 4AAs and stash them away with DB 8AA lamps as emergency lights. Maybe I should just put the DB 8AA lamps into the spare bulb holders and hope I never have to use them.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tater,

For emergency use, probably the best 4AA light currently available in terms of brightnes, size, weight and runtime is the UKE Mini Q40. In this combination of features it is superior to all other 4AA's including the Tek 40, its closest competitor regardless of how the Tek 40 is configured.

It is $15.95 at Brightguy (possibly cheaper elsewhere), and with lithium AA's will give you a runtime of 4.75-5.25 hrs based on my timings. Although the beam quality and brightness is not on Surefire's level, it is still highly functional.

Brightnorm
 
Tater ...
Just wondering where you were at on your DB config?
What setup did you decide to go with?
 
Actually, what little I have used mine, it has been in stock form. I have only used it around 5 minutes total. I really should sell it to somebody who would get more use out of it because it is just sitting under my bed right now.

Spud
 
Nope. I am not even 18 yet and I don't have a job. Can't find any bipin bulbs to fit it for six volts, cant find the 6AA bulb, don't have, and cant afford an r30 bulb (though that would be good with alkalines I think), Don't have 4NiMH's, only have two, and had to borrow two of dads so I'd have enough for my Tec40, Definatly cannot afford 3 or 6 123 batteries and a p90, cant afford 6 2/3A NiMH's or a p90 to go with it. Can afford hi-cap A cells even less.

So yeah, I don't have a lot of choices since I don't have a lot of money. I think if I were to do a mod though, it probably wouldn't be on the DB, it would be on my Tec40 to run a p60 (if only I had one) and possibly use that while diving.

Spud
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tater Rocket:
[QBOk, I am going to discuss different options for the Double Barrel 4AA and want some advice also. I could:

[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tater,

WHERE did you get your DB 4AA? I can't find it anywhere (including WallyWorld, Ebay etc.)

Brightnorm

PS Have an enjoyable Prom
 
Hi I just signed up today and have a question after reading Brightnorm's comment: For emergency use, probably the best 4AA light currently available in terms of brightnes, size, weight and runtime is the UKE Mini Q40. In this combination of features it is superior to all other 4AA's including the Tek 40, its closest competitor regardless of how the Tek 40 is configured... how much brighter is the UKE Mini Q40 then the TEK 40. It seems to have the best run time but not sure if its brighter. Has it been measured? I got a TEK 40 and am impressed . After reading Klaus's input about bulb options I tried it with a HPR 53 and some NIMH AA batteries And WOW! Extremely white and Bright.
 

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