Good (and bad) OEM Headlamps

[hokiefyd]

There appear to be a few headlamp engineers on here, or at least those very familiar with the industry. It's also apparent that what a lay person would judge as "good" headlamps might be very different from what a headlamp engineer would judge as good headlamps. So I'm curious what vehicles have notably good and notably bad headlamps from the factory, to an engineer's eyes. I guess I would say that this question would apply only to relatively modern vehicles; the state of the art has changed so much in the last decade or two that most headlamps from that long ago probably don't hold a candle, pardon the pun, to newer designs. It might also be prudent to separate halogen lamps from HID lamps, though I'm sure there are a number of halogen lamps that are superior in one or many ways to some HID lamps.

All thoughts and discussion welcomed.

 

[Mazzacr]

I'm surprised, I've read this forum for a long time and it's kind of shocking nobody has anything to add here.

 

[DIWdiver]

+1

It's certainly too daunting a task to handle in any comprehensive way, with what, 100-200 different systems in the last 5 years alone? But with so many opinions floating around, it's surprising none have landed here.

 

[Slazmo]

oh god - headlamps... I have found that my latest install into the hands free headlamp has really disappointed me in both quality and engineering terms. The Led Lenser H7 is overpriced and a cheap chinese copy of most 'exact' options out there! The only good thing going for it is its light output, but couldn't honestly say that I could rely on it when it came to SHTF scenario.

My old Petzel MY03 on the other hand which is both incan and LED is far more power hungry with the main beam being incan, however it's proven to be 'waterproof' and deerly designed for cavers and extreme outdoors use. I would like to somehow one day make this LED driven, however my skills in that dept are sorely lacking!

Seeing so many other options with headlamps available now, I guess its the same with torches, its only a matter of time till something gets better in design, lighter and stronger or weaker in Led Lensers ways...

 

[-Virgil-]

Wrong kind of headlamp, Slazmo; this thread's about the ones on the fronts of road vehicles.

 

[Slazmo]

ooooh we call them driving lights or 'spotties' - lost in translation... ha ha anyhow provided a good laugh no doubt! I bet some here were thinking 'crazy Aussie' whats he on about???...

 

[Norm]

So I'm curious what vehicles have notably good and notably bad headlamps from the factory, to an engineer's eyes.

ooooh we call them driving lights or 'spotties' - lost in translation... ha ha anyhow provided a good laugh no doubt! I bet some here were thinking 'crazy Aussie' whats he on about???...

Translated into OZ speak headlights.

Norm

 

[Slazmo]

Norm - headlights are the main units that house the combination of parkers, driving and high beams correct or have I flown off another tangent again?

 

[Norm]

Norm - headlights are the main units that house the combination of parkers, driving and high beams correct or have I flown off another tangent again?

Did you click the link I added to my first quote?

Correct.

Norm

 

[Slazmo]

No ha ha... Didnt even notice it was a link... anyhow I'm going to take myself somewhere else

Feel free to delete my rants above.

Thanks Norm.

 

[hokiefyd]

Maybe I can get some discussion going with my opinion on my two vehicles' headlamps.

2008 Honda CR-V: HB2 bulbs in reflector housings. They have a lot of down-road light on low beam; side light, especially on the right side, is less than what I would prefer. Side light to the left is okay. They appear to have pretty decent control of stray light above the cutoff on low beam, but there's a very pronounced "ring" of light up in the sky on high beam, due to the nature of how the reflector bowl is "sunk into" the housing some. I have Philips Vision Plus bulbs in them now, which I like the best of all the bulbs I've used (OEM Philips LL, Sylvania Xtravision, Philips X-treme Power). The X-treme Power bulbs had the most light and most intense focus, but the light pattern on the road was "splotchy" and somewhat distracting.

2005 Acura MDX: H11 bulbs in projectors, HB3s in reflectors. The projector low beams are adequate. I understand halogen projectors as a species have low efficiency. But optics seem good. Pretty good side light on both sides, with an effective step in the pattern which provides more downroad light on the right side of the road. The "squirrel spotter" openings in the projector's light shield provides very effective illumination of overhead road signs and street signs. The high beams aren't super effective, but they certainly do provide more light. I currently have Sylvania Xtravision in both low beam and high beam. I have a number of H11 Xtravisions that I've bought at various clearance sales, so I have a supply of these for a little while still.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I think this would be a long list, even if pared down to the extreme ends of the good/bad scale. Compiling such a list also would mean relying on, and revealing, confidential industry information, or could tend to put the forums in a bad (wait for it!) light, because even if factually true, noöne wants to see their headlamps be maligned on a message board.

Granted, when someone asks "Does Car X have good or bad headlamps" and someone says "Car X has good headlamps!" or "Car X has bad headlamps", that's one thing. But to put out a list of Cars X, Y, and Z having bad headlamps right off the bat could tend to make the makers of those fine vehicles a little annoyed.

(BTW: For "good" and "bad", I mean "objectively". This is why such a list may require the release of confidential information.)

 

[-Virgil-]

Translated into OZ speak headlights.

Actually, "headlamp" is the formal/correct name throughout the English-speaking world. "Headlight" (headlight beam, headlighting system, headlight glare, etc.) refers to the light coming from the headlamp. "Headlight" is commonly used on an informal basis to refer to headlamps, though.

 

[-Virgil-]

The reason why this thread hasn't really gotten off the ground -- and shouldn't -- is because subjective impressions of headlamp performance are basically useless. They are almost always far out of line with the actual, measurable, objective performance of the headlamp. That is because human beings are not equipped to accurately judge how well we can see. We feel like we can, but we can't.

Without data (not opinions, not impressions, not photographs), it is not possible to usefully or helpfully answer the question at the top of this thread.

 

[-Virgil-]

I understand halogen projectors as a species have low efficiency.

That's not necessarily the case, and in any event it depends on how we define "efficiency". An HB1 (9004) system can be called "efficient" because the entire reflector and lens area is used on both low and high beam, but these systems tend to be lousy with regard to beam focus and width and homogeneity and other aspects that directly impact the effectiveness of the headlight.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

So I'm curious what vehicles have notably good and notably bad headlamps from the factory, to an engineer's eyes.

It's not the engineer's literal eyes; figuratively, a headlamp that would be good to that engineer's eyes are actually good according to the beam isoplot.

 

[irsa76]

The reason why this thread hasn't really gotten off the ground -- and shouldn't -- is because subjective impressions of headlamp performance are basically useless. They are almost always far out of line with the actual, measurable, objective performance of the headlamp. That is because human beings are not equipped to accurately judge how well we can see. We feel like we can, but we can't.

Without data (not opinions, not impressions, not photographs), it is not possible to usefully or helpfully answer the question at the top of this thread.

It's not the engineer's literal eyes; figuratively, a headlamp that would be good to that engineer's eyes are actually good according to the beam isoplot.

I agree, what one person feels is a "good" headlamp may not necessarily be good on the beam isoplot.
You only have to look at the number of people who install overwattage, or worse still HID, bulbs into their headlamps. And lets not talk about aftermarket "performance" headlamps.

 

[hokiefyd]

It's not the engineer's literal eyes; figuratively, a headlamp that would be good to that engineer's eyes are actually good according to the beam isoplot.

Right. I guess that's what I'm asking for. Which OEM lamps out there really are GOOD? Almost by definition, they all can't be equally "good", can they, much like all tires aren't equally good?

Maybe this data simply doesn't exist...not in the public's hands anyway.

 

[-Virgil-]

The problem is that it's not a sharp dividing line between "good" and "bad" headlamps. There are many aspects of headlamp performance. Some lamps may be good or bad at all of them, but many more of them are a mix of relatively better and relatively not as good as others. Also, there is no objective basis for judging; different people (and auto makers, and lamp makers, and researchers, and consumer organizations, and drivers...) have different preferences and philosophies of what a "good" headlamp is. Some of these are based on pure subjective preference and don't hold much weight. Some of them are made of stouter stuff, and may differ significantly but can't be called right/wrong, just different. About the best we can do is a general statement that a good headlamp is one that achieves all of its various tasks and balances reasonably well, or one that might not be a top all-around headlamp but does certain things exceptionally well and so is well suited to particular applications. Good headlamps by those definitions exist in every category: construction sealed beam and bulb-replaceable, light source halogen, Xenon and LED, technical standard SAE/US and UN/ECE and JIS and "none of the above", etc. The same is true for bad headlamps that fail to achieve all of their various tasks and balances reasonably well, or that do most things OK but have a particularly severe shortcoming. I don't know how useful a list of good headlamps that occur to me would be; we are no longer in the era of universal standard-sized headlamps on every vehicle.

 

[N8N]

I'm not a headlamp engineer (nor do I actually play one in real life) but I'll nominate a couple as being particularly bad.

1) Ford F-series, 1992-96. Not horribly objectionable from behind the wheel but not great, but from the perspective of someone who's always driven fairly low to the ground cars, whenever I notice someone oncoming or behind me with glaring, blinding lights a lot of the time it's one of these trucks.

2) Saturn SL - I've never driven one, but deserves a big jeer for the high beam DRLs which seemingly weren't dimmed at all compared to the regular headlights. Easily possible to get unpleasant glare from one of these well before headlight use would seem prudent.

3) Volkswagen Corrado, the US-spec headlights. They might be legal but they don't actually put any light on the road, or seemingly much of anywhere else. Apparently the Germans' punishment for us not harmonizing with ECE (really ROW) standards, as the E-code lights for the same car are reasonably good.

Those are the ones I hate off the top of my head. An interesting question would be, has anyone tested those particular headlamps, especially the Ford ones, and do they look as bad on paper as they do subjectively?

Also I got a Chevy Cruze as a loaner yesterday and found the headlamps disappointing but maybe I'm spoiled - my current two rides are a BMW 3-series coupe with HIDs (which is in for service) and a Jeep Cherokee with Cibies and a relay harness. But I really did feel much less confident in the Cruze and subjectively it seemed like most of the light coming out of the headlamps was concentrated in one spot and not really spread out. Also didn't really notice much of a difference between low and high beam.