Good Light for UL Backpacking

[hopkins]

MtnVgr
This is fun. I have a drawer full of headlamps and I like them all for different
reasons. A few wouldn't care if I loaned them out and they never came back,
or if they got stepped on and crushed during the morning pack up. Super glue
to the rescue!

And no ones mentioned an annoying characteristic of some otherwise fine headlamps - they illuminate your nose when tilted at the proper angle
for use.
So beware.
The face should never receive photons from the radiating area of the headlamp when tilted for walking. example: the tip of the nose back scatters
light to your eyes.
some examples of bad and good. Reflection back from snow can't be helped.
The Petzl Myo XP has the best preventative design for this real problem

 

[MountainVoyageur]

Thanks to everyone who contributed. It has been interesting and educational to follow this thread, together with other related material I could find by searching CPF.
:thanks:lovecpf

I thought that, since you were all so kind with your time and suggestions, I would update you on my current thinking:

• When I mention "weight" or "heavier" I mean the light complete with a spare battery set. AA batteries are calculated as Eneloops

• Single cell -- there are single cell lights that are technically just fine. They are lighter and less bulky that multi-cell lights. I know of no compelling advantage to a multi-cell light for my uses.

• Different trips have different light requirements; I do not need a closet full of lights (like some on this forum have 🙂), but sooner or later I shall need more than one. For any given trip, I'll take the lightest suitable one from the list below.

• Because of hiking and ski poles, the lights need to be hands-free. Hands-free is also more convenient in camp. I even have a clip for my photon. For various reasons, such as glare, jiggle, and interaction with soft hats and parka hoods, I do not want to depend on after-market straps, such as Jakstrap, Nitecore, Nite Ize, and Fenix ones.

• Weight is important, but I am not going to count every last gram. I am willing to pay a small amount of weight if I see the functional benefit.

• The list, from lightest to heaviest, as I see it:

• • Coin cell light -- Photon/Fauxton seems like the winner here. For now I'll keep on with my current ones. This will be enough for many trips.

• • Clip-on lights. These can be under an ounce (e.g. iTP A3). Because of the need to clip on, any light in this category has to be quite light, which rules out a number of otherwise nice lights. For now, I'm going to ignore this category and just bring either my headlamp or a clip-on version thereof. We are only talking of an extra ounce or so. Getting a lighter dedicated one will be an optimization down the road.

• • Throwy headlamp, with good spill. I'll have to investigate things like in-camp and in-tent performance, but for trips where the throw is needed, I am hoping and expecting this can be the only light I take. (I am expecting its lower levels to handle in-camp and in-tent quite well, even if not quite as nice as an all-out floody light.)

• • Floody headlamp. This should be better in camp, and can also handle some modest hiking. I'll take this (alone) on trips where I do not foresee needing the extra throw of the throwy headlamp -- where any night hiking is not excessively difficult. I'll also take it on two-light trips (see below); because of that the light must reasonably attach to my waist belt.

• • Bombproof light -- I have ideas for some trips where this would be important. Given those trips are not imminent, and that these lights are both heavier and more expensive, I'll wait until closer to where I have a definite need before getting one.

• Two lights -- a trail runner made as good a case as any for two lights when trail running, and how to structure them. I could see that for some rough UL trips as well, but they will not be the majority. My plan for the times I do need this approach is to attach my floody to my waist, and use my throwy headlamp (rather than hand-hold the throwy light as the other poster does).

• Which light -- I have worried about functionality more than cost. There are more expensive lights I have ruled out, but the reason has not been cost.

• • Both headlamps must take the same battery, so that I have commonality if/when I take them both on the same trip.

• • When I first saw the Zebralights, I thought that an angle light was weird. The more I have thought about it, the more I like that angle light approach, and they are the only game in town.

(As I see it, the Quark prism is heavier, kills throw, swallows a lot of light, and is fussier with its extra pieces. It has its uses, but being a throwy headlamp for me to hike with is not one of them.)

There is also the Fenix MC-10 -- I passed on that for reasons described below.
​

• • I like the Zebralight H31 generation. I need to see the H51 series (supposed to be out later this month) before making up my mind between AA and C123A lights.

• • I am concerned about the (un)reliability reports for Zebralights. OTOH I note that most owners seem very happy with them, and even those who have trouble say that ZL gives good service and stands behind its product. I'll just have to count on that if need be.

• Other headlamps I have considered:

• • Petzl Tikka / Zipka -- non-regulated and IPX4 are deal-killers

• • PT Remix Pro -- only IPX4

• • PT EOS -- basically a good light. It is heavier and bulkier, though

• • Surefire Saint Minimus -- also a good light. It is a pure floody, though, and I do not see that it can easily be attached to a waist belt or sternum strap. Also on the heavy side, though not as much so as the PT EOS. The cost does not rule it out per se, but I would need to see a compelling advantage before paying that much for one.

• • iTP H01 -- I do not want AAA. Mid-level performance not really competitive with the Zebralights

• • Fenix HL20 -- mid-level too bright, weight a little high (same as Minimus)

• • Fenix MC-10 Angle --mid-level too bright (seems to be characteristic of Fenix), and too heavy. I'd have to think about their angle mechanism, too.

That's it. I'm waiting to hear about the Zebralight H51 family -- to get the specs, and to hear the initial reviews. While waiting, I continue to refine my thoughts. I go back and forth on neutral/warm vs. cool white, and on AA vs. CR123A.

--MV

 

[paulr]

The Saint Minimus is NOT a pure floody lamp, at least the way the H50 is. It is floody, but has an aspheric optic that does a careful job organizing the beam for decent reach and spill. You could combine it with a mini-thrower like an E1B though that adds more weight and gets expensive. Carrot's review is here: http://www.gearcarrot.com/blog/2010/03/surefire-saint-review/ (also this thread) and if he's still on this thread he might have more to say. I'm not trying to give a sales pitch for it, I've just gotten interested enough in it from this thread that I might buy one (but that's just me).

If you go with AA, your backup cell and maybe your main cell should be an L91 lithium. An L91 is half the weight of an Eneloop, has 2x the energy capacity, and works much better in cold weather. It's just not rechargeable. An L91 has almost the same weight, volume, and energy as a 123, but a different voltage and shape.

I'm not sure what your objection is to AAA since it's an obvious notion if you're trying to minimize weight, but you know your priorities better than I do.

I wouldn't take anyone's lumen and IPX numbers too seriously (except maybe SF's) since they are mostly made-up marketing nonsense.

There is a long thread about ZL reliability whose basic conclusion (iirc) is that the twisty ZL's work pretty well and the pushbuttons have had some problems. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=251039

I agree with most of your other conclusions.

 

[MountainVoyageur]

Paul,

Thanks for taking the time to provide your comments.

The Saint Minimus is NOT a pure floody lamp, at least the way the H50 is. It is floody, but has an aspheric optic that does a careful job organizing the beam for decent reach and spill. You could combine it with a mini-thrower like an E1B though that adds more weight and gets expensive. Carrot's review is here: http://www.gearcarrot.com/blog/2010/03/surefire-saint-review/ (also this thread) and if he's still on this thread he might have more to say. I'm not trying to give a sales pitch for it, I've just gotten interested enough in it from this thread that I might buy one (but that's just me).

This thread also made me aware of the Saint Minimus, and I liked what I saw. I thought about it quite a bit, but in the end decided I don't have a match at this time. Perhaps in the future. I sure can understand someone wanting to buy one.

I took the Saint Minimus' beam to be more like the H501 than the H50. The H501, which most people classify as floody, is also described as having a smooth beam that is a good match for your peripheral vision. I took the information from the Saint Minimus web site to be supporting that point of view:

• Minimus produces a wide, variable-output beam optimized for your field of vision.
• Proprietary refractive optic produces a smooth, wide beam optimized for your field of vision
• There are no hot spots, rings, or defects; just a smooth white beam that corresponds nicely with your peripheral vision

From Carrot's review:

• In any case, the Saint creates a beautiful rectangular flood, softly tapering off on the sides,

I also ran across scattered postings at CPF describing the beam as floody.

That's why I thought of the Minimus as floody (H501 style). Note that H501 users say the light is fine for a lot of trail walking. I would assume the Saint Minimus is similar to the H501 in that respect.

Is your understanding different from the above? Perhaps if Carrot is still monitoring this thread, he can chime in if my understanding is way off base.

If you go with AA, your backup cell and maybe your main cell should be an L91 lithium. An L91 is half the weight of an Eneloop, has 2x the energy capacity, and works much better in cold weather. It's just not rechargeable. An L91 has almost the same weight, volume, and energy as a 123, but a different voltage and shape.

Agreed -- I did not mention that, but my thinking for AA is that lithium batteries make sense for at least the spare and use below freezing. I may try them for main use -- they do save about 0.4 oz over Eneloop -- but I prefer rechargeable for my in-use batteries where possible (just a general principles thing).

I'm not sure what your objection is to AAA since it's an obvious notion if you're trying to minimize weight, but you know your priorities better than I do.

If you mean for a clip-on, then I agree that AAA is probably the way to go. That's why I referred to the iTP A3.

As for a headlamp, if you want the possibility of using both a throw and a flood at times, AAA presents a problem -- the H01 is the only game in town. (A clip-on is not going to work well with a wool hat and a parka hood.) Furthermore, you would not be saving much weight -- here are some weights (including the spare battery):

• iTP H01 -- 2.8 oz (AAA)
• ZL H31 -- 2.9 oz (CR123A)
• ZL H50 -- 2.5 oz (AA)
• If the H51 weight is as much heavier than the H50 as the H31 is from the H30, then the H51 will weigh 2.8 oz

I wouldn't take anyone's lumen and IPX numbers too seriously (except maybe SF's) since they are mostly made-up marketing nonsense.

I am surprised at the IPX comments. I would have thought that pretty cut-and-dried. I do not attach any weight to the difference between the PT EOS claiming IPX7 and the iTP Ax EOS (IP68) and ZL (IPX8) lights. I would hope that they are clearly more waterproof than the ones that only claim IPX4, though. Are you telling me that is a vain hope?

As to lumens, expect that there are problems both with how they are measured and with what is measured. I was surprised to read somewhere that Fenix measures them at the emitter. As I think about it, I suppose that I should assume an emitter measurement unless the spec clearly says it is an OTF measurement. (Is there list anywhere of who measures OTF and who measures otherwise?)

If Fenix really does measure at the emitter, they may be doing themselves a disservice -- one of the complaints about them is that their low and mid level are too bright. To the extent that gripe is from spec reading, it could be due to how they are measured (which thought just occurred to me).

In any case, you note that my writeup did not choose lights on higher claimed lumens, especially not on higher max lumens. I am more interested in solid mid-level lumens (for hiking), nice low low-level lumens (for in camp and tent), and good efficiency (i.e. long run times). While more lumens on high power is welcome, all of the lights we are talking about have enough so that is not a deciding criterion.

There is a long thread about ZL reliability whose basic conclusion (iirc) is that the twisty ZL's work pretty well and the pushbuttons have had some problems. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=251039

I am still thinking about that one ...

I agree with most of your other conclusions.

--MV

 

[De-Lux]

I have the H-30 Q5 and use it quite a bit for back packing and quite honestly it is the only light I really need when Backpacking. I usually bring either my Fenix PD30 or Nitecore EX10 for back-up but they rarely get used. The H-30 is pure flood which works great for backing IMHO. I also like the fact that the H-30 can use Lithium Ion or primary cells. My H-30 is probably the most versatile light I own. The raised clicky can be an issue but you can always lock out the switch by twisting the battery cap a half turn counter clockwise. I have had no issues with reliability with the H-30 but have heard of issue's with the H-60. The H-50 will probably be your best bet for reliability with it's twisty switch. My only complaint with this light is its IPX8 waterproof rating which in my opinion is a bit of a joke but just don't go swimming with it and you should be fine.

 

[Shorty66]

I use the H501 for backpacking and mountaineering and though i agree that flood is the right choice for backpacking and living around camp there are some situations where you really need some throw while mountaineering.
For example looking for the right way can be quite difficult with a pure flood light.

I have had three clicky zebralights (h60, h501, h501w) and none ever had problems.

 

[BigHonu]

What an excellent discussion!

MV, does your hands free requirement automatically translate into a headlamp or would something attached to your pack straps, waist, etc. suffice?

I see that paulr has mentioned a Ra light and aside from it's 'bombproof' construction I believe that the flexibility in output has to be it's biggest attribute. 23 levels going from tenths of a lumen all the way up to 140/170 depending on the model. You can program your light to the whatever levels you want based upon your needs, even if your needs change over the course of your journey.

The two most glaring issues are:
Weight - 3.5 ounces (IIRC) with battery. Not exactly UL gear.
It is a handheld by design. You would need to come up with a way to mount it to your gear or noggin.

Good luck on your search!

 

[DM51]

What an excellent discussion!

Agreed! And full credit to MV for steering the thread along so well.

 

[MountainVoyageur]

What an excellent discussion!

MV, does your hands free requirement automatically translate into a headlamp or would something attached to your pack straps, waist, etc. suffice?

• I can see a clip-on (to a hat brim) being lighter for some trips, and perfectly acceptable. This could be a dedicated light, or a headlamp in its lighter clippy mode. That won't work well when I have a wool hat and/or parka hood on my head, though.

• I am not excited about after-market head straps for this use, for reasons I mentioned in a previous posting. That means lights must be either a headlamp or a light weigh clippy.

• If one takes a floody as part of a two-light solution, it will need to be mounted as you describe above (see the link I provided in my previous posting). I also think that on easy to moderate trails mounting a single floody as you describe may be the way to go -- you allegedly get better depth perception with the light mounted low; I'd need to try both a throwy-with-spill and a floody to see which is better for that use, though.

• Bottom line is that I see a suitable light as being either a light weight clippy for some trips or else a headlamp that, at least if floody, can optionally be clipped places such you describe.

I see that paulr has mentioned a Ra light and aside from it's 'bombproof' construction ... Not exactly UL gear.

I see the Ra as being very nice, and one of the choices in my last category (bombproof) -- something I'll look at in the future if/when I take a trip where bombproof is ultralight (for that trip).
--MV

 

[red02]

If you go with AA, your backup cell and maybe your main cell should be an L91 lithium. An L91 is half the weight of an Eneloop, has 2x the energy capacity, and works much better in cold weather.

According the the freezer test:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=241606

Eneloops' performace doesn't suffer because of cold.

 

[Woods Walker]

Zebralight H50 is a great as lantern.

Yup the H50 is a fine UL lantern.

The H501 isn't all that shabby for a lantern either.

 

[hopkins]

A few more thoughts
When Hiking at night and you pause to find something in your pack a light mounted on the shoulder strap/ waist belt is suddenly silly ,

but can be overcome by the mouth grip. But suppose you want to drink or eat a snack then the mouth grip also fails to work. So transferring a light from straps to hands to mouth, etc raises the chance of dropping it into a creek
or down a hole between the boulders.

So a dedicated headlamp has a some advantages that are hard to beat.

Camping I'll sleep with a headlamp on my head so when the inevitable bump in the night happens there is no fumbling.

There are interesting things to see at night but you have to be fast because they can also be fast.

As for rain; its very a hardcore night hiker that does it in the rain without a poncho hood to keep the lamp and your head a little more dry than completely soaked , so IPX4 works unless you plan to hike near salt water spray.

Salt should be kept out of headlamps (don't spill soup on it etc) but thankfully rain is pure distilled water and has not
shorted out any of my headlamps.

 

[paulr]

I took the Saint Minimus' beam to be more like the H501 than the H50. The H501, which most people classify as floody, is also described as having a smooth beam that is a good match for your peripheral vision.

Well I'm going by the same descriptions as you, so you know what I do. I have an H50 and love it, but haven't tried an H501 so can't compare directly. The H50 is pure flood, has basically no throw, would not be a great choice for trail hiking because of this. Its beam is similar to the original McLux Mule PD which just had flat glass over the led. From descriptions I saw of the H501 it is only slightly more directional than the H50 and I saw that as similar to the Sundrop, which again has not much throw. The pictures I've seen of the Saint beam are quite a bit narrower than the H50 beam, though still not highly directional.

I tend to think Surefire knows what it's doing in designing a headlamp for outdoor use. I've mostly used headlamps for close-up lighting (e.g. fixing a car or indoors), where I've found directional headlamps to be too narrow, so my desires are maybe not the same as an outdoor user's. Again, maybe Carrot can speak up.

Agreed -- I did not mention that, but my thinking for AA is that lithium batteries make sense for at least the spare and use below freezing. I may try them for main use -- they do save about 0.4 oz over Eneloop -- but I prefer rechargeable for my in-use batteries where possible (just a general principles thing).

Fair enough, that's a reason to prefer a 1aa light over cr123. (I'm leery of lithium ion cells especially in a headlamp, due to explosion horror stories). I wondered in the Saint review thread if it might be possible to make a custom battery cap that would allow running a Saint on a high-current AA like an Eneloop or L91.

After discussion and calculations on the ITP H01 thread, I think AAA isn't all that attractive after all, at least with currently available lights. Oh well. I remembered a super-lightweight headlamp called the CMG Tracer, which had 1aaa and two 5mm leds. The difference between an AAA and an AA pocket light is really noticable, but if add a ZL-like headband, the light itself is no longer the biggest component.

As for a headlamp, if you want the possibility of using both a throw and a flood at times, AAA presents a problem -- the H01 is the only game in town. (A clip-on is not going to work well with a wool hat and a parka hood.) Furthermore, you would not be saving much weight -- here are some weights (including the spare battery):

Yeah, I guess if you're making serious use of a headlamp you should use a real one rather than an improvised one, to the extent that whatever UL doctrine you choose to follow allows it.

I am surprised at the IPX comments. I would have thought that pretty cut-and-dried. I do not attach any weight to the difference between the PT EOS claiming IPX7 and the iTP Ax EOS (IP68) and ZL (IPX8) lights. I would hope that they are clearly more waterproof than the ones that only claim IPX4, though. Are you telling me that is a vain hope?

I just wouldn't take any of that stuff seriously unless I really knew something about the testing regimes in use. Unless there's some traceable independent certification I'd consider any such specs to be pulled out of the marketing department's butt. I wouldn't hesitate to wear my H50 in wet weather but even ignoring waterproofing issues, I wouldn't consider it to be designed for severe duty because of its lightweight construction, and the rubber headband attachment gizmo possibly being breakable (although, it does come with a spare one, and I haven't heard of anyone actually breaking one yet).

As to lumens, expect that there are problems both with how they are measured and with what is measured. I was surprised to read somewhere that Fenix measures them at the emitter. As I think about it, I suppose that I should assume an emitter measurement unless the spec clearly says it is an OTF measurement. (Is there list anywhere of who measures OTF and who measures otherwise?)

Measures? Hah. I think they either extrapolate from the led manufacturer's spec sheet, or again just make up numbers. But yes, until recently almost everyone did that (used emitter specs) except Surefire/Arc/HDS. "OTF" entered the marketing lexicon not long ago, I think because of CPF. But again I just don't believe the numbers I sometimes see. The Surefire E1B thread mentioned subjective tests indicating the 120 lumen E1B to be equal to the 190 lumen Quark. Some CPF'ers do recreational testing in small homemade spheres, and I guess the results are better than nothing, but Arc spent hundreds of bucks per test in a 4(?) foot lab sphere that cost something like $25,000, and I figure those expensive spheres are made that way for a reason.

If Fenix really does measure at the emitter, they may be doing themselves a disservice -- one of the complaints about them is that their low and mid level are too bright.

Ehh, I wouldn't worry about this too much. It's not that the low/mid are too bright, it's that they're too closely spaced for the multiple levels to be that useful. It's not that big a deal though unless you're really trying to skulk around in the dark.

Ra currently doesn't sell a headlamp. It supposedly has one in development. My guess is it will be similar in spirit to their flashlights. Very advanced and very tough, designed primarily for cavers.

 

[MountainVoyageur]

A few more thoughts
...
As for rain; its very a hardcore night hiker that does it in the rain without a poncho hood to keep the lamp and your head a little more dry than completely soaked , so IPX4 works unless you plan to hike near salt water spray.

My preferring IPX8 is for use around canoes. There is a distinct chance of the light getting dunked, not just splashed.

Also, the Canadian Coast Guard regulations are for a "watertight" flashlight if out after dark. I presume IPX4 may be OK for that, but have not researched to be sure. (I doubt anyone will check very closely, though.)

Any Canadians on board here who know the answer to that? Does IPX4 meet the current CCG requirement?

So, since IPX8 is pretty common these days, why not go for it? (I know ... rules out Petzl. However, the Tikka and Zipka are not regulated, which already rules them out for me.)

--MV

 

[MountainVoyageur]

I tend to think Surefire knows what it's doing in designing a headlamp for outdoor use. I've mostly used headlamps for close-up lighting (e.g. fixing a car or indoors), where I've found directional headlamps to be too narrow, so my desires are maybe not the same as an outdoor user's. Again, maybe Carrot can speak up.

I searched the forums with the string "Saint Minimus beam hiking". I found some mixed opinions of how the Minimus is for hiking ... some said not enough throw. There were plenty who are happy with it, though, such as this one:

I should say while I'm not afraid of the dark or the woods, I was once chased for a short distance by a mountain lion not far from where we were hiking about 10 years ago, so having the lights was nice. With the minimus secured on my head, I switched it on. Let there be light...
At the lowest setting the pitch suddenly turned into a puddle, which I could now avoid stepping in. I had plenty of light to see my footing. As I turned the dial up, the blackness became illuminted farther and farther out. I could see everything perfectly on the trail, the gentle flood spilling to the sides and also illuminating the trees above. It was cold enough and damp enough, the only thing effecting my vision was my breath shining in the bright flood of the minimus.

In short the minimus was amazing. Even at the lowest setting, I had plenty of light to manouver. With the light at the halfway detent, I could see clearly down the trail. At full blast, the minius really reaches far for a flood. It never really becomes a WOW bright level, but is about as bright as you would need without being blinding.

The quality of the Minimus becomes even more aparent when you switch on the Petzl. Sure the Petzl is bright enough, and comfortable enough. While it has a bit more throw than the minimus, the focused beam just kills your night vision. And while the petzl is a pain to turn on and off, the smooth controls of the minimus are just instinctive.

After discussion and calculations on the ITP H01 thread, I think AAA isn't all that attractive after all, at least with currently available lights.

Right. There is little point to AAA unless either the weight is lighter or the form factor is enough smaller you care. As I read things, the HT01 is neither of those.

Yeah, I guess if you're making serious use of a headlamp you should use a real one rather than an improvised one, to the extent that whatever UL doctrine you choose to follow allows it.

My "doctrine" is to be realistic -- UL means the lightest that meets trip requirements. Sometimes that is a Photon. Sometimes it is a AAA light that clips on. And, for some trips, it is a real headlamp.

Ehh, I wouldn't worry about this too much. It's not that the low/mid are too bright, it's that they're too closely spaced for the multiple levels to be that useful.

Thanks for reminding me of that -- I have not been paying enough explicit attention to the spacing. I think I have been doing OK implicitly, but I should double-check.

Ra currently doesn't sell a headlamp. It supposedly has one in development. My guess is it will be similar in spirit to their flashlights. Very advanced and very tough, designed primarily for cavers.

I look forward to hearing about it when it finally becomes available.

--MV

 

[Plinko]

Tons of input so far, and most seem to be overshooting your target.

Here's my recommendation, based on lots of trail miles, peaks bagged, and gear whoring.

You already know the answer and have been using it. 🙂

If you hike trails, a Photon is plenty of light. At 0.25 oz each, they're more suited to the UL ethos than any other options.

Velcro dot + hat brim = headlamp.

I carry 3 Photons for summer trail hiking, one white LED version, one backup in the first aid kit (make this one a yellow/red/orange etc LED with CR2032 cell for increased run-time), and a third that lives on my key chain.

If there's ever a situation where you need more light, run 2 or even 3 at once. Total redundancy, and grand total of just 0.75 oz!

Add other lights based on your activity level. If you're adventure racing, trail-running at night, route-finding, scrambling, winter camping, etc you'll obviously require more light, and you supplement what you have with more firepower.

For you're needs, save the money and the weight with Photons, then continue to refine other areas of your system.

 

[carrot]

Sadly the only way to see if a certain product really works for you is to buy it. Nowadays if I want a product badly enough I tend to buy it without much fuss over what people are saying and see if it works for what I want it for. If it doesn't, I may resell it or use it for other tasks than originally intended.

With Surefire this is especially feasible because they retain much of their value on the secondhand market, especially if you already bought it used or get a friendly discount from a dealer. Others tend to be cheap enough that they will not make too big a dent on your budget regardless of what you choose to do with them if you do not like them.

You can, of course, take advantage of stores that have great customer service and return policies, like REI, and take the product out on a test run. If you don't like it, just return it.

 

[MountainVoyageur]

You can, of course, take advantage of stores that have great customer service and return policies, like REI, and take the product out on a test run. If you don't like it, just return it.

Speaking of REI, I discovered recently (in another context) that when they carry one item from a manufacturer you can special-order that manufacturer's other models that they do not carry. Amazingly (to me, at least) their generous return policy still applies, and you still get your dividend.

I presume that what I discovered generalizes. I was talking of a canoe model they did not have in their catalog. I said I was reluctant to order one without first touching it and, preferably, paddling it. They said I could special order it, try it out, and return it if I did not like it. I was amazed that I would be able to return a special order. I did clarify, to ensure no miscommunication.

They don't carry most of the brands that you see on this forum, but they do carry SureFire, including the Saint Minimus (for those who want to give it a try). Even if you do not catch it on sale, you can still get your dividend -- a bit of a discount.

--MV

 

[carrot]

They don't carry most of the brands that you see on this forum, but they do carry SureFire, including the Saint Minimus (for those who want to give it a try). Even if you do not catch it on sale, you can still get your dividend -- a bit of a discount.

--MV

Does that mean you're going to give it a shot? 😀

 

[tritan]

I have a Fenix LD01 in stainless steel and I think it's bright enough for most backpacking purposes. Its 3 levels give it plenty of runtime in low mode and reasonable throw in high mode. For ultralight I'd get the HA model of course (or a Preon, which starts in low mode, but its clip goes in the wrong direction for handsfree). Treat it with a little care and it will be fine. For "rugged", you want a Ra, but those are quite heavy, not ultralight at all.


Keep in mind also that in normal backpacking you won't be moving around that much at night anyway. For a lot of the nighttime hours, you will presumably be sleeping. Flashaholics always overestimate the amount of runtime that real-world situations require, in addition to overestimating lumen requirements. People survived for thousands of years with no flashlights at all. A little bit goes a loooong way.



If I were in your situation (attempting ultralight with slight concessions to flashaholic urges) I'd just bring a multi-level 1AAA light (Fenix LD01 or Preon) with an L92 lithium battery, and use the pocket clip to attach it to a baseball cap or headband for handsfree use, with a Photon as a backup. No dedicated headlamp. No monstrous thrower. Maybe not even a spare battery. Zebralight once expressed intention to make a 1AAA headlamp and I keep wanting them to do it, but they haven't yet.

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I just got back from a weekend trip and he is right. you don't move around much after a full day . You are ready for bed. I bought a headlamp and a fenix EO1 as a backup . 13.00 and runs on a AAA . I used the Eo1 hanging in my tent for 2 hours a night reading and no dimming issues. I love that light so much that I am looking to upgrade to a Preon or the ld1 so I can have a clip to push on my hat for a headlamp.