Good Light for UL Backpacking

[MountainVoyageur]

Does that mean you're going to give it a shot? 😀

There is no doubt that the Minimus is a nice headlamp. I intend to take a look at it at REI (if the local REI has them in stock) just to get a hands-on feel for one.

As to purchase -- the first thing is that I need to decide on AA vs CR123A. I favor rechargeable on general principles, and am not set up for LiIon recharging.

I anxiously await the ZL H51 family -- announcement, specs, and initial user reviews -- so I can also consider that.

--MV

 

[paulr]

You won't get anywhere near the lumens from a 1aa light that you can from a 123, but lumens are overrated. I'd expect the H51 to be similar to the SC50, which got a very favorable review on CPF recently.

 

[MountainVoyageur]

You won't get anywhere near the lumens from a 1aa light that you can from a 123, but lumens are overrated. I'd expect the H51 to be similar to the SC50, which got a very favorable review on CPF recently.

I know that is the common wisdom. However, to the extent one can rely on manufacturers' claims, it seems to me that the data are somewhat ambiguous.

One thing I do not understand is how to reliably/usefully compare lumens claims, aside from being careful that either both are OTF or both are not. I note the cautions here that manufacturers' claimed numbers are not reliable. OTOH I do not expect to buy one of each so I can do my own first-hand comparisons. That said:

• OTF measurements seem preferable, because that measurement removes some variables, such as the reflector. ZL claims OTF; I do not know about St. Minimus.

• The ZL H31 claimed lumens and runtime are both significantly better than the St. Minimus claims (both are CR123 lights).

• The ZL H501 claimed lumens are fairly similar to those for the St. Minimus, while the H501's claimed run times are longer than for St. Minimus.

• I would expect the H51 family to be more efficient that the H501, and to compare even more favorably to the St. Minimus.

• The ZL SC50 claimed lumens and runtimes are significantly better than the St. Minimum claims. The H51 should be at least as good as the SC50.

As to beam:

• The St. Minimus has a very nice one, but so does the H501. They both claim to fill the peripheral vision nicely. Both are reported to be very smooth. We shall just have to wait and see for the H51F, but I would expect ZL to be planning for the H51F to supercede the H501.

• I pointed out in an earlier posting why I think the St. Minimus beam may be more similar to the H501 than to the H31 / H51 -- i.e. less throw than the latter two.

I'd be interested in any pointers that would help confirm/deny that the ZL lights outperform the St. Minimus (as the respective manufacturers' claims indicate).

--MV

 

[Egsise]

OTF measurements seem preferable, because that measurement removes some variables, such as the reflector. ZL claims OTF; I do not know about St. Minimus.

ZebraLight has been a little optimistic in it's OTF claims.
Remember H50 Q5 vs H501 Q5?

 

[paulr]

However, to the extent one can rely on manufacturers' claims, ...

None of those companies have any magic leds or electronics. If a claim looks too good to be true, that means it's probably not true. It is basically the same technology at the bottom of all these lights that were made around the same time. One light is not likely to outperform another comparable one in raw lumen output except by trading off runtime or by being newer (leds have gotten a lot better in the past few years). Any other claimed differences can mostly be ascribed to the marketing department. Take such numbers with a grain of salt.

 

[MountainVoyageur]

None of those companies have any magic leds or electronics. If a claim looks too good to be true, that means it's probably not true. It is basically the same technology at the bottom of all these lights that were made around the same time. One light is not likely to outperform another comparable one in raw lumen output except by trading off runtime or by being newer (leds have gotten a lot better in the past few years). Any other claimed differences can mostly be ascribed to the marketing department. Take such numbers with a grain of salt.

How much effect would the reflector or any lensing have on what you said?

Aside from that, your remark reminds me -- I do not see where Surefire tells what the Saint's emitter is, other than "a high-quality LED". I do not see that Carrot's review tells, either. Is there some way to tell? XR? XP-E? XP-G?

--MV

 

[red02]

The "high quality LED" probably just means its a 3 watt LED.

This is usually good reference; depends on the quality of the picture of course:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=270419

Given that surefire is not known for using bleeding-edge LEDs, and the 100lm for 1.5hrs figure on 1xcr123a, its most likely a high flux XRE. H30s are rated for 80lm for 2+hrs on a single cr123a and those are XREs...

 

[rotncore]

Thanks all for this thread, I lurked for a few days and picked up a Minimus today. My ZL H50 wins for pure compactness, but with all the waterproofing questions, and my desire to standardize on Cr123s for all my lights, I figured why not.

It is my favorite headlamp I've tried to date - while the beam is nice, the kicker for me is that it feels really solid when on my head. The head curved backplate and neoprene pad allow me to put it on tight, and jump around without the light shifting, while remaining really comfortable and feeling less front heavy. None of my Petzl's, Princeton, or the ZL have felt as secure. While if may not be a thrower (PT EOS is what I'd call thrower), I dislike the tunnel that throwing headlights produce forcing more head swiveling. If I need more light at a distance, I can take out my handheld backup.

By the way, from looking at it, it would be fairly easy to rig to a shoulder strap or belt, as there are some good channels in the backplate to run a ziptie or cordage through.

 

[paulr]

How much effect would the reflector or any lensing have on what you said?

Aside from that, your remark reminds me -- I do not see where Surefire tells what the Saint's emitter is, other than "a high-quality LED". I do not see that Carrot's review tells, either. Is there some way to tell? XR? XP-E? XP-G?

Reflector and lens would not make that much different to lumen output (some, but not much). I think someone examined a Saint and found the led is an XRE. Surefire isn't into the "LED of the week" game like some of the smaller vendors though. They have in some cases been known to switch production to new leds as they become available, which means the lights they ship often outperform what their specifications (based on older leds) say. Lately they've been noisier about this, I guess in order to keep up with the competition. They used to just do the upgrades quietly. I just wouldn't worry about this too much. The power consumption and LED type probably tells you more about the output than the claimed lumen ratings do.

 

[carrot]

It's definitely a Cree die based the way it looks, and almost certainly an XR-E given the timeframe the Saint seems to have been designed and built in.

 

[paulr]

Carrot, what do you think of my idea of concocting a 1aa battery cap for the Saint Minimus? Does it look feasible?

Rotncore, what do you think of the Saint beam compared with the H50?

 

[carrot]

paulr, I think it would be feasible except for the fact that the Saint seems to require more than 1.5v to run (2xAA in serial). The fact that the two AA's fit in the battery holder in parallel (!?) is seemingly a red herring.

I also just tested by putting a fresh Eneloop in the battery case and shorting the slot for the other battery. No luck. Sorry.

 

[paulr]

paulr, I think it would be feasible except for the fact that the Saint seems to require more than 1.5v to run (2xAA in serial). The fact that the two AA's fit in the battery holder in parallel (!?) is seemingly a red herring.

Oh, by "parallel" you just meant a side by side layout rather than electrically parallel. I think you should update your review to clarify that point. It makes sense though.

Note if the two AA slots really were in parallel, shorting out one slot would short out the other! If you're not sure about this and you have a voltmeter, can you check the connections?

 

[Woods Walker]

Just wondering if the OP has picked his headlamp yet?

 

[MountainVoyageur]

Just wondering if the OP has picked his headlamp yet?

Nope ... I want to see what the ZL H51 family looks like before deciding

--MV

 

[paulr]

The H51 will look just like the H31 except a little longer and a little skinnier. 😉

 

[carrot]

Oh, by "parallel" you just meant a side by side layout rather than electrically parallel. I think you should update your review to clarify that point. It makes sense though.

Note if the two AA slots really were in parallel, shorting out one slot would short out the other! If you're not sure about this and you have a voltmeter, can you check the connections?

I am absolutely certain that the AA batteries are in series, as the wiring can be viewed from the back side of the Saint's battery pack.

 

[Vesper]

Thanks all for this thread, I lurked for a few days and picked up a Minimus today. My ZL H50 wins for pure compactness, but with all the waterproofing questions, and my desire to standardize on Cr123s for all my lights, I figured why not.

It is my favorite headlamp I've tried to date - while the beam is nice, the kicker for me is that it feels really solid when on my head. The head curved backplate and neoprene pad allow me to put it on tight, and jump around without the light shifting, while remaining really comfortable and feeling less front heavy. None of my Petzl's, Princeton, or the ZL have felt as secure. While if may not be a thrower (PT EOS is what I'd call thrower), I dislike the tunnel that throwing headlights produce forcing more head swiveling. If I need more light at a distance, I can take out my handheld backup.

By the way, from looking at it, it would be fairly easy to rig to a shoulder strap or belt, as there are some good channels in the backplate to run a ziptie or cordage through.

rotncore, thanks for this short review. I've been reading along hoping someone who just purchased a minimus would chime in. Appreciate it!

 

[Stevie]

Great discussion. Really good read this, thank you.

I really like the sound of the Minimus, but the only thing that puts me off is the price. :sigh:

I tell you what else interests me for UL - the supposedly upcoming ZL H30 with the same LED as found in the H31. Although god knows how long we must wait for this. I think this could be a pretty versatile light, more versatile than the Minimus and also cheaper.

I am speculating now, but if it's the same LED but without the reflector of H31, this is what it could do perhaps in terms of versatility:

220 Lumens / 120 Lumens of high power flood for difficult trail running.
43 Lumens / 24 Lumens for night hiking.
5 lumens and also the really LOW 0.5 lumens for in the tent and around camp without a hotspot.

You could clip it to your belt when hiking or running, and hang it up or clip it inside a tent when in camp. Although you could do this with the Minimus, it doesn't come with the accesories that allow you do this straight from the box.

If ZL do release this, I just reckon it would be a better deal than the Minimus due to the accessories that come with it. Not dissing the Minimus now, I am just saying that a high powered floody Zebralight is probably better value and more versatile.

-

On another note, I know that two lights goes against UL principles, but I can recommend the Olight T10 as a pocket thrower. It is small, unobtrusive and will light up a tree at 300 feet. I love mine, it rocks and is always in the pocket when out on the trail.

Thanks for the very interesting discussion.

 

[BlueMarble]

Have you also looked at the Quark + Prism? It is a pretty good option for a headlamp because you can also use it as a regular flashlight.

This is what I would look at. 4Sevens Quark with neutral or warm white emitter and the Quark Prism Kit. That is all you'll need. I use it all the time hiking in all kinds of conditions, including pouring rain, snow, you name it. The Prism Kit also has a diffuser lens that attaches on, and when you clip that on your belt or backpack it provides a very nice even glow for hiking down a trail or setting up camp and preparing meals in the dark. I like to refer to it as the Gandalf Effect 🙂