Good replacements for 9005SI+ and 9005LL in projector lights in 2017 Ram

munsterlander

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Greetings,
I have a new-to-me 2017 Ram 1500 with the "Bi-Function Projector Headlamps" with stock halogen bulbs that the owner's manual specifies as 9005SI+ for the low beam, and 9005LL for high beam.
I have no idea what the SI+ and LL even means.... can you recommend a replacement bulb for these that will improve the lighting?

And while we are at it, any recommendation for the fog lamp bulbs? I believe they are 9006 but apparently they might also be 9145, according to the manual.

I super-appreciate any help, and am glad to know there are some knowledgeable folks here!
 

-Virgil-

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Welcome to this board!

"LL" means "Long Life".
That "SI+" is really "SL+" and stands for "Super Luminance+". There's a data sheet here, though it's not terribly informative.

HB3 (9005) is one of the standardized bulb types, and all HB3 (9005) bulbs that actually meet the technical specifications in the regulation are interchangeable without causing damage to the vehicle or other safety hazards, but they are not all alike. In general, there is a tradeoff between bulb life and the various aspects of bulb output that impact on headlight beam performance. A long-life bulb gives shorter seeing distance and narrower beam coverage, and a dimmer, browner light due to its lower filament luminance. A high-luminance bulb gives longer seeing distance and wider beam coverage, and a brighter light, but has shorter life.

There is an excellent upgrade for both of the bulbs in your headlamp, that is the HIR1 (9011). Don't buy just any HIR1 / 9011 bulb -- many of them (Philips, etc) are not much better than the standard 9005 / HB3 bulb. The Toshiba bulb is still the best of the bunch; Daniel Stern has them.

The critical dimensions of HIR1 / 9011 are identical to HB3 (9005), as is its power draw, so it will focus correctly in the headlamps and not create any extra heat or electrical load. But its output is higher; the nominal value is 2300 lumens instead of 1700. You will have to trim a plastic tab on the new bulb to match the original bulb as described here, then they go right in and plug right in.

Headlamp aim is the central, main determinant of effective headlamp performance, and unfortunately a new vehicle is not a guarantee of correctly aimed lamps. It has to be done with the usual/customary load in the truck, and it has to be done correctly with an optical aiming machine. See here for details. It can be very frustrating to find a shop that can and will do it; even many dealerships use lazy shine-on-the-wall types of methods.

The fog lamps need to be correctly aimed, too, but they should almost never be turned on (read this, and you should not use any but the original type of bulb in them.

(other things to steer clear of: don't use "HID kits" or "LED conversions" in your lamps -- it isn't safe, legal, or effective.)
 

munsterlander

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Thanks, Virgil! Great information!
I definitely learned something about my headlamps and fog lamps! I will leave the fog lamps as they are.
Wow, an optical beamsetter... now I will need to search one out!
Any idea what a shop with a beamsetter would charge to aim headlights?
 

-Virgil-

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Yes, electrically it is identical to the original bulbs. You only have to worry about CANBUS-related issues if you do things you shouldn't: "LED bulbs", "HID kits", high-wattage bulbs, etc.
 

corneileous

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I came across this discussion in a google search the other day which is why I decided to make an account here and become a member of this forum but I’m really curious about what you said when you started talking about those 9011 lightbulbs…

I two, have one of those vehicle‘s that the OP posted about except mine is a 2018 with pretty much the same headlights he has which are the premium projectors that use two different kinds of a 9005 bulb for the low beam in the high beam and I’m looking for a pretty good replacement also.

I’d really rather not go HID or LED again because after spending 450 bucks; basically $75 a bulb for two pairs of LEDs- one pair for my fog lights and one pair for my highbeams and a pair of HIDs for my lowbeams, they didn’t last worth a crap. My LED high beams is all I’m still using out of that order that I’ve been using in the truck for close to 3 1/2 years now but don’t let that fool you because number one, I’ve only driven maybe 21,000 miles with those high beams and they’re the least used lights out of those. Because of my job, I don’t drive my truck very much and being that I replaced all of my forward driving lights all at one time, my passenger side HID low beam was the first one to quit working….and then shortly after that was when I noticed that my driver side fog light quit working. On my low beam, I don’t know if it was the bulb that went bad or if it was the ballast or if it was whatever that other black box was but all I know is that side quit working so instead of Buying new bulbs, I just replaced both my low beams with the set of Sylvania ZXE‘s that I had originally bought shortly after buying the truck brand new to get rid of the very low quality lightbulbs that were installed at the factory.

When one of my LED fog lights quit working, I just bought a brand new set of the Sylvania halogen Silverstar ultra 9005’s to go in there which calls for a 9006 but after I read that you can shave off those two plastic tabs inside the bulb socket, you can run a 9005 for a little bit brighter light which works pretty good, which is why I’ve just been wanting to get two more pairs of those SS ultra 9005‘s for my lowbeams in my highbeams.

But as I said, after reading this discussion, I’m kind of interested in those 9011s you talked about. How did those stack up against the 9005 Silverstar ultra‘s or even those Phillips Crystal vision ultra‘s?

I just want to run a good bulb that puts out plenty of light that’s not HID or LED because apparently, $75 a bulb for those is not expensive enough to get good quality.
 

Alaric Darconville

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I came across this discussion in a google search the other day which is why I decided to make an account here and become a member of this forum but I’m really curious about what you said when you started talking about those 9011 lightbulbs…

I two, have one of those vehicle‘s that the OP posted about except mine is a 2018 with pretty much the same headlights he has which are the premium projectors that use two different kinds of a 9005 bulb for the low beam in the high beam and I’m looking for a pretty good replacement also.
There are two kinds of 9005, the 9005 with the P20d base, and the 9005XS with a P20d straight base. The '18 Ram uses the normal 9005 in both the high and low beams with projectors, or the H11 in the low beams without projectors.

I’d really rather not go HID or LED again because after spending 450 bucks; basically $75 a bulb for two pairs of LEDs- one pair for my fog lights and one pair for my highbeams and a pair of HIDs for my lowbeams, they didn’t last worth a crap.
They also don't work worth a crap. If you felt like they did, it's because there's a somewhat counterintuitive aspect of headlighting in that often the headlamps that are more comfortable to drive behind are less effective because of excessive foreground saturation.

My LED high beams is all I’m still using out of that order that I’ve been using in the truck for close to 3 1/2 years now but don’t let that fool you because number one, I’ve only driven maybe 21,000 miles with those high beams and they’re the least used lights out of those.
You need to get rid of those bulb-shaped toys in your high beams. They make it harder to see correctly, despite your feeling that they help.

Because of my job, I don’t drive my truck very much and being that I replaced all of my forward driving lights all at one time, my passenger side HID low beam was the first one to quit working….and then shortly after that was when I noticed that my driver side fog light quit working.
Those HID kits are not only unsafe, ineffective, and illegal, they are often made with parts having low electrical or mechanical quality. Ballasts that fail early, ballasts that emit EMF that interferes with drive-by-wire systems, ballasts that can wear out igniters or the arc-discharge capsules prematurely. (Note that no matter how well made the system is, it's still never appropriate to put an arc-discharge capsule into a lamp assembly designed for a filament bulb, whether reflector or projector.)

Bulbs in fog lamps should last quite a long time since they should only be used in conditions that genuinely require them. They are not intended to be used every time you turn on the headlamps-- they should be used only in very thick fog or torrential rain, and in those conditions just at night and at very low speeds-- 25mph is pushing it (especially in fog when you can only see road markings and other vehicle lamps don't appear to you until you're about 2 car lengths away).

On my low beam, I don’t know if it was the bulb that went bad or if it was the ballast or if it was whatever that other black box was but all I know is that side quit working so instead of Buying new bulbs, I just replaced both my low beams with the set of Sylvania ZXE‘s that I had originally bought shortly after buying the truck brand new to get rid of the very low quality lightbulbs that were installed at the factory.
At least you got rid of the HID kit, but the Sylvania ZXE is not a good bulb choice. The envelope is heavily tinted blue to make the what would *already be white light* have less yellow in it, which some people misconstrue as "whiter". This means that not only have you reduced your light output, you've left behind blue light which is harder for our optical system to deal with.

When one of my LED fog lights quit working, I just bought a brand new set of the Sylvania halogen Silverstar ultra 9005’s to go in there which calls for a 9006 but after I read that you can shave off those two plastic tabs inside the bulb socket, you can run a 9005 for a little bit brighter light which works pretty good, which is why I’ve just been wanting to get two more pairs of those SS ultra 9005‘s for my lowbeams in my highbeams.
This was a bad idea on several levels. First, the 9005 puts out too much light for a fog lamp, and seeing as you run them all the time you're putting out too much glare. Second, the 9005 does not fit correctly in the the 9006 socket; the base on the 9005 is a P20d and the 9006 is a P22d. The bulb will be loose and can move around, shifting the filament around in the lamp. It can also allow too much dust and dirt to go past the o-ring seal. Undo that mistake immediately.

But as I said, after reading this discussion, I’m kind of interested in those 9011s you talked about. How did those stack up against the 9005 Silverstar ultra‘s or even those Phillips Crystal vision ultra‘s?
Almost anything but a "Long Life" 9005 stacks up well against the 9005 "SilverStar Ultra" (although it does appear Sylvania is making them less bad by tinting less of the bulb than they used to). The 9011, however, will outperform even the best 9005 because it's written into the specification (the allowable output range on a 9005 is 1496 to 1904 lumens, the 9011 is 1955 to 2645 lumens). The filament precision requirement is also higher on the 9011, meaning the bulb focus is much better.

I just want to run a good bulb that puts out plenty of light that’s not HID or LED because apparently, $75 a bulb for those is not expensive enough to get good quality.
That was a lot of money to spend to make your lighting more dangerous, let alone the poor mechanical/electrical quality.

Note: While I used their numbers throughout, the bulb designations are:
9005 = HB4
9005 = HB3
9011 = HIR1
9012 = HIR2
 

corneileous

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There are two kinds of 9005, the 9005 with the P20d base, and the 9005XS with a P20d straight base. The '18 Ram uses the normal 9005 in both the high and low beams with projectors, or the H11 in the low beams without projectors.
So since they’re the same-looking bulb and since that Virgil guy didn’t go into too much detail about what comes stock in the premium projectors instead of just further explaining the name past the acronym, What’s the difference between a 9005 Long Life and a 9005 superluminous plus that was in the lowbeams? I have a pretty good idea that the long life bulb means just what it does as almost every other long life bulb that, you pay a little bit more for the bulb and it lasts a little bit longer but I don’t understand what’s different about the other bulbs in the lowbeams and why they just weren’t the same as the highbeams. If these bulbs were like the ones you described above where one of them is a straight base and the other one was an angled bsse then I could see that but both of these two bulbs look exactly the same.
They also don't work worth a crap. If you felt like they did, it's because there's a somewhat counterintuitive aspect of headlighting in that often the headlamps that are more comfortable to drive behind are less effective because of excessive foreground saturation.


You need to get rid of those bulb-shaped toys in your high beams. They make it harder to see correctly, despite your feeling that they help.
You sound like you’re a lot more knowledgeable when it comes to automotive lighting than I am but other than the fact the lights didn’t last for crap compared to what I paid for them, I thought they were awesome and I loved them. Half the time I didn’t even have to use my highbeams because those low beam HIDs put such a perfect focused area of light all in the right place and with my fog lights on to further illuminate the sides of the road, I could see just fine even without my highbeams.

But really the only time anybody ever highbeamed me was if I had the fog lights on but those were just a little bit on the bright side so I just tried to avoid using those for the most part when there was a lot of oncoming traffic.

I’m not trying to argue I’m just saying up until they started to go out at what I considered was very premature, I was very pleased with my purchase and didn’t feel like I spent too much money money on any of these lightbulbs.
Those HID kits are not only unsafe, ineffective, and illegal, they are often made with parts having low electrical or mechanical quality. Ballasts that fail early, ballasts that emit EMF that interferes with drive-by-wire systems, ballasts that can wear out igniters or the arc-discharge capsules prematurely. (Note that no matter how well made the system is, it's still never appropriate to put an arc-discharge capsule into a lamp assembly designed for a filament bulb, whether reflector or projector.)
Hmm, interesting.
Bulbs in fog lamps should last quite a long time since they should only be used in conditions that genuinely require them. They are not intended to be used every time you turn on the headlamps-- they should be used only in very thick fog or torrential rain, and in those conditions just at night and at very low speeds-- 25mph is pushing it (especially in fog when you can only see road markings and other vehicle lamps don't appear to you until you're about 2 car lengths away).
You’re right, I’m not gonna argue with this but the only reason why I do use them even if it’s not foggy out is because I like to be able to see the side of the road and so far, I’ve never had a headlight or headlight/light bulb combination that does that well with just the lowbeams enough without the use of fog lights.
At least you got rid of the HID kit, but the Sylvania ZXE is not a good bulb choice. The envelope is heavily tinted blue to make the what would *already be white light* have less yellow in it, which some people misconstrue as "whiter". This means that not only have you reduced your light output, you've left behind blue light which is harder for our optical system to deal with.
Like I said in my first post, before the HIDs and the LEDs, I was quite pleased with the ZXEs But after running the other bulbs for so long, those same bulbs I had before seemed to be all the sudden no better than the really junk bulbs that came in my headlights when I bought the truck brand new.
This was a bad idea on several levels. First, the 9005 puts out too much light for a fog lamp, and seeing as you run them all the time you're putting out too much glare. Second, the 9005 does not fit correctly in the the 9006 socket; the base on the 9005 is a P20d and the 9006 is a P22d. The bulb will be loose and can move around, shifting the filament around in the lamp. It can also allow too much dust and dirt to go past the o-ring seal. Undo that mistake immediately.
Increased glare, I guess you’re right but how is all that other stuff you said correct win the only difference I saw in the sockets was the one had the one center alignment tab right in the middle and the other bulb had two alignment tabs that were off to each side from where the tab was in the other bulb? After shaving that tab off in the new 9005’s, the wiring harness fit just as tightly in the 9005 as it did in the 9006.
Almost anything but a "Long Life" 9005 stacks up well against the 9005 "SilverStar Ultra" (although it does appear Sylvania is making them less bad by tinting less of the bulb than they used to). The 9011, however, will outperform even the best 9005 because it's written into the specification (the allowable output range on a 9005 is 1496 to 1904 lumens, the 9011 is 1955 to 2645 lumens). The filament precision requirement is also higher on the 9011, meaning the bulb focus is much better.
So what are some good options for those 9011 headlight bulbs? They have these[/url and [url="https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/sylvania/sylvania-9011-basic-halogen-headlight-bulb-pack-of-1/syl0/9011bp?q=9011&pos=1"]these. The Eikos only last 150 hours, are 12.8 volts, 5.1 amp, 2300 lumen and 3125k color temperature; the Sylvanias are only 12 volt, last 500 hours, 5.4 amp, 2300 lumen and only 2800k color temperature. Which of these would you think would be the better choice? They must be pretty spectacular at $25 apiece which is pretty much about the same price doubled as a pair of the Sylvania Silverstar ultra‘s.
 

Alaric Darconville

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So since they’re the same-looking bulb and since that Virgil guy didn’t go into too much detail about what comes stock in the premium projectors instead of just further explaining the name past the acronym, What’s the difference between a 9005 Long Life and a 9005 superluminous plus that was in the lowbeams?
The SL (superluminance) bulb has optimizations to the filament to give it a higher luminance (expressed in cd/m2​, or "candela per square meter"); higher luminance means more light being emitted for the surface area. As a result of these optimizations, you get more beam 'punch' and a better-focused beam (the total light output being more constrained to a smaller emission surface)-- but you also get reduced lifespan.

With a "long life" bulb you get... a long bulb lifetime. You also get a poorly-focused beam with less punch, and, despite "long life" being in the name it's not a long *useful* life. The bulb will blacken over time, and the filament will degrade, and the bulb will continue lighting up long after it stopped producing even the minimum required light for its spec.

You sound like you’re a lot more knowledgeable when it comes to automotive lighting than I am
I've been doing this a long time.

but other than the fact the lights didn’t last for crap compared to what I paid for them, I thought they were awesome and I loved them.
As before, poor lighting is often more impressive and comfortable to drive with based on the nature of its poorness. Oversaturation of the foreground, or too much glare in glare zones, can appear to the driver that they are "seeing better".

Half the time I didn’t even have to use my highbeams because those low beam HIDs put such a perfect focused area of light all in the right place
Impossible, because the arc-discharge light source has two hotspots equidistant from the light center length rather than *at* the light center length. A lamp designed for a halogen bulb is focused at the light center length rather than being designed around the twin hotspots.

and with my fog lights on to further illuminate the sides of the road, I could see just fine even without my highbeams.
Fog lamps are for lighting up the road markings and some of the edge of the road beyond the markings, they aren't for lighting up very far into the shoulder or the other lane. They are not auxiliary low beams and are not meant for use in clear weather. This is not their design.

Further, by having that extra foreground light, you're reducing your ability to see way off in the distance. Once you're going over 45mph, the reality is you need to be using high beams (where other traffic, both approaching or leading, permits). It's bad enough when having to remain on low beams in those conditions but you make it worse by putting just that much more light in the near field.

But really the only time anybody ever highbeamed me was if I had the fog lights on but those were just a little bit on the bright side so I just tried to avoid using those for the most part when there was a lot of oncoming traffic.
Probably because they had bulb-shaped LED toys in them. A similar problem with HID kits exists with LED "drop-ins": The lamp assembly is designed for a hotspot of a particular size in a particular location; the LED hotspot(s) are generally close to the light center length or axial center of the filament bulb it attempts to emulate. This throws off the focus badly. (Not that getting flashed or not getting flashed is a reliable indicator that you are or aren't generating excessive levels of glare.)

You’re right, I’m not gonna argue with this but the only reason why I do use them even if it’s not foggy out is because I like to be able to see the side of the road and so far, I’ve never had a headlight or headlight/light bulb combination that does that well with just the lowbeams enough without the use of fog lights.
You're misusing them. Fog lamps are fog lamps-- if your low beams aren't providing adequate width there may be something wrong (or you're expecting way too much from low beams). And then you installed "LED bulbs" which ruined the performance of the lamps. Again, the human optical system is such that we're fooled by a poor headlamp beam into thinking we have a good one.

Like I said in my first post, before the HIDs and the LEDs, I was quite pleased with the ZXEs But after running the other bulbs for so long, those same bulbs I had before seemed to be all the sudden no better than the really junk bulbs that came in my headlights when I bought the truck brand new.
It's still impossible for a headlamp designed for a filament bulb to perform better with an arc-discharge capsule. It's physics. You may well remember "angle of incidence equals angle of reflection"; replacing a single central hotspot with two hotspots means two hotspots whose light hits the optics with different angles of incidence from what it was designed for. (Similarly, a halogen bulb in an HID projector will result in a malformed beam. It's not a question of the amount of light, it's a question of the light emission pattern of the source.)

Increased glare, I guess you’re right but how is all that other stuff you said correct win the only difference I saw in the sockets was the one had the one center alignment tab right in the middle and the other bulb had two alignment tabs that were off to each side from where the tab was in the other bulb? After shaving that tab off in the new 9005’s, the wiring harness fit just as tightly in the 9005 as it did in the 9006.
All those tabs are to prevent accidental installation of the wrong bulb. The wiring harness will fit tightly on the bulb, the bulb will not fit tightly in the light housing. The bulb can jiggle and pivot around. It's not safe.

So what are some good options for those 9011 headlight bulbs?
The Eikos only last 150 hours, are 12.8 volts, 5.1 amp, 2300 lumen and 3125k color temperature
Sylvanias are only 12 volt, last 500 hours, 5.4 amp, 2300 lumen and only 2800k color temperature.
Between those two, I'd take the Sylvanias (although you could end up with a Philips PFR (purchase for resale) in the package); Eiko is really not all that great.
The ratings on both of them should from the nominal/legal description of an HIR2, and as voltage increases the life changes to the power of -13, the output changes to the power of 3.4, and the power consumption changes to the power of 1.6 (all of these 'in general'; different metallurgy and fill gases can result in slight changes to the exponents). The math for those up there seem to be someone taking the nominal wattage and dividing by the voltage, not applying the real formula with the exponent. For example, 65W/12.8A=5.07A; 65W/5.41A. The reality is that as the bulb voltage increases, the current also increases.

But instead of either of those, the Toshiba HIR1 from Daniel Stern would be the yet better (rather, best) choice but they may cost a bit more.
 

-Virgil-

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Sorry to resurrect an old thread

No apology needed when (as in this case) the renewed conversation is relevant to the old conversation and vice versa.

I’m looking for a pretty good replacement also.

Toshiba HIR1 (specifically) times four. Stern still has 'em as mentioned above, only now he can pre-trim them for you so they go right in.

I’d really rather not go HID or LED again because after spending 450 bucks; basically $75 a bulb for two pairs of LEDs- one pair for my fog lights and one pair for my highbeams and a pair of HIDs for my lowbeams, they didn’t last worth a crap.

That sucks, but it's actually all for the better that they failed, because they really don't work effectively or safely -- detailed info can be found here about LEDs and here about HIDs -- and that's why these kinds of "conversions" are illegal.

My LED high beams is all I’m still using

For safety's sake (yours plus everyone around you on the road) please put the correct kind of bulb -- halogen -- back in your headlamps.

I just replaced both my low beams with the set of Sylvania ZXE‘s

Oops...that's a move in the wrong direction. Those are near the bottom of the allowable output range for the 9005 bulb type, which is 1496 to 1904 lumens. The blue tint on the bulb glass blocks a lot of the light that would otherwise reach the road. See here and take note that spanking Sylvania got was for their Silverstar bulbs: still bad, but less bad than the darker-blue ZXEs.

When one of my LED fog lights quit working, I just bought a brand new set of the Sylvania halogen Silverstar ultra 9005’s to go in there which calls for a 9006 but after I read that you can shave off those two plastic tabs

Yikes, please don't do (undo) that. It's a really bad idea on several fronts. First of all, it makes your fog lamps produce unsafe/illegal amounts of glare, regardless of whether/how they're aimed. Also, the 9005 bulb has a smaller shank diameter than the 9006 bulb, which means even if you get it to apparently lock into place after shaving the tabs, it's not sealing itself to the lamp. This, in turn, does two bad things: it lets water/dirt into the lamp, which will eventually destroy it, and it also makes the bulb shake around in the lamp with normal road vibrations. This worsens the (already bad) excessive glare and ruins what was left of the already damaged beam focus.

You can significantly (and *safely*) upgrade the fog lamps; go talk to Stern for the latest/greatest, but even with the world's best bulbs in them, they should be used only very sparingly, because they're not of much (real) use. Good info on the how and why of that is here.
 

corneileous

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The SL (superluminance) bulb has optimizations to the filament to give it a higher luminance (expressed in cd/m2​, or "candela per square meter"); higher luminance means more light being emitted for the surface area. As a result of these optimizations, you get more beam 'punch' and a better-focused beam (the total light output being more constrained to a smaller emission surface)-- but you also get reduced lifespan.
I see. Where do you find those super luminance bulbs? Every time I go looking at headlight bulbs, I see the cheaper long life bulbs all the time but I’ve never seen anything about a super luminance classification, it’s always whatever the brand of the bulb has called those specific bulbs; you know, like the Phillips crystal vision for the Sylvania Xtra vision or the Sylvania Silverstar or the Sylvania Silverstar Ultra…

I think it’s awful funny they chose to say some special lightbulb that probably hardly anybody’s ever heard about that probably has people racking their brains trying to find just to go by what the owners manual says. Lol.



As before, poor lighting is often more impressive and comfortable to drive with based on the nature of its poorness. Oversaturation of the foreground, or too much glare in glare zones, can appear to the driver that they are "seeing better".
Well, like I said, they were a far cry better and much brighter than the stock bulbs that came in these headlights and they were still even better and brighter than those Sylvania ZXEs.
Impossible, because the arc-discharge light source has two hotspots equidistant from the light center length rather than *at* the light center length. A lamp designed for a halogen bulb is focused at the light center length rather than being designed around the twin hotspots.
I can understand that but you know, it really doesn’t even matter at this point because I’m really not interested in HIDs or LEDs in my headlights or fog lights anymore unless I buy a new vehicle that actually comes with that from the factory which, brings me to a question that I don’t know if you’ll know the answer to but in vehicles that come with either HIDs or LED headlights, like for example the new body style ram 1500 that has the upgraded factory LED headlights, I take it those don’t have an LED bulb about like the kit that I bought where it was an LED where the glass filament was but it still had the same twist in base?
Fog lamps are for lighting up the road markings and some of the edge of the road beyond the markings, they aren't for lighting up very far into the shoulder or the other lane. They are not auxiliary low beams and are not meant for use in clear weather. This is not their design.
I realize that but in my experience, they’ve all done a really good job of giving you just a little bit extra light on the side of the road but then again, maybe all this time with all of my other vehicles current and past, I just never have had the right lightbulbs in there to where I wouldn’t have a reason to have my fog lights on. A lot of times when I ran those Silverstar ultra‘s in some of the other cars I’ve had, they were bright enough that I really didn’t need to use my fog lights.
Further, by having that extra foreground light, you're reducing your ability to see way off in the distance. Once you're going over 45mph, the reality is you need to be using high beams (where other traffic, both approaching or leading, permits). It's bad enough when having to remain on low beams in those conditions but you make it worse by putting just that much more light in the near field.
I can also understand that and again if I have the right high beams that do what they’re supposed to, I may not even never have to run my fog lights. Which actually, if I could ever actually achieve that, I would much rather have a yellow tinted bulb in my fog lights anyway because whether or not that holds true about how the lens is focused on a true fog light, I was always told that part of what makes a really good fog light is the yellow tint because the yellow light breaks through the fog and doesn’t reflect off of it like the white light does. Is this true or is this just something I’ve heard that doesn’t make sense or is inaccurate?
Probably because they had bulb-shaped LED toys in them.
All but the three or four that never highbeamed me? Hmm.
A similar problem with HID kits exists with LED "drop-ins": The lamp assembly is designed for a hotspot of a particular size in a particular location; the LED hotspot(s) are generally close to the light center length or axial center of the filament bulb it attempts to emulate. This throws off the focus badly. (Not that getting flashed or not getting flashed is a reliable indicator that you are or aren't generating excessive levels of glare.)
Yeah, I don’t know, the guy that sold me the lights was from a company called vanquish auto that is no longer in business but he told me that the HIDs would work better in projectors than the LEDs would.

Also, I don’t know if this is like this with all LED replacements but the ones I had came with a little Allen wrench that allowed you to set the orientation of the diodes.
All those tabs are to prevent accidental installation of the wrong bulb. The wiring harness will fit tightly on the bulb, the bulb will not fit tightly in the light housing. The bulb can jiggle and pivot around. It's not safe.
Well, I don’t know what to say then because the wiring harness fit just as tight in the bulb socket as it did in the 9006 and the bulb itself fit just as tight inside the light housing as the 9006 did.
Between those two, I'd take the Sylvanias (although you could end up with a Philips PFR (purchase for resale) in the package); Eiko is really not all that great.
The ratings on both of them should from the nominal/legal description of an HIR2, and as voltage increases the life changes to the power of -13, the output changes to the power of 3.4, and the power consumption changes to the power of 1.6 (all of these 'in general'; different metallurgy and fill gases can result in slight changes to the exponents). The math for those up there seem to be someone taking the nominal wattage and dividing by the voltage, not applying the real formula with the exponent. For example, 65W/12.8A=5.07A; 65W/5.41A. The reality is that as the bulb voltage increases, the current also increases.
Ok.
But instead of either of those, the Toshiba HIR1 from Daniel Stern would be the yet better (rather, best) choice but they may cost a bit more.
Where would I find these? I found these on Amazon, are they about what you’re asking about?

ACDelco GM Original Equipment HIR1 High Beam Headlight Bulb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C9QPKS/?tag=cpf0b6-20
 

Mr. Merk

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You're on the right track! You can buy all six bulbs directly from Dan, and they will be the best available options for your truck.
 

corneileous

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You're on the right track! You can buy all six bulbs directly from Dan, and they will be the best available options for your truck.
I exchanged a couple emails with him last night and I ended up placing an order for two pairs of those Toshiba 9011s for my headlamps and then a set of those 9012s that have a yellow coating on them to go in my fog lights. At first I wasn’t going to buy any more fog light bulbs but after Mr. Stern explained the reason for that black coating on the end of a 9006 bulb and being that yellow color is better for fog anyways, that’s why I went ahead and decided to buy a new set of bulbs to go on my fog lights as well. If those Toshiba 9011‘s are that good enough to where I don’t feel like I have to run my fog lights at night time just to help illuminate the side of the road then I guess that’ll be more money well spent because even though it’s frowned upon, that’s the only reason why sometimes on desolate Two Lane Highway‘s, I run my fog lights when I can’t run my brights it’s just so that I could watch the side of the road for animals.
 

Alaric Darconville

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I see. Where do you find those super luminance bulbs?
I wouldn't bother looking since they'll still be a 9005; the maximum allowable output for a 9005 is still below the minimum required output of a 9011.

Well, like I said, they were a far cry better and much brighter than the stock bulbs that came in these headlights and they were still even better and brighter than those Sylvania ZXEs.
You keep saying that, and I keep saying that it's easier to fool someone into *thinking* they see better than allowing them to *actually* see better.

I can understand that but you know, it really doesn’t even matter at this point because I’m really not interested in HIDs or LEDs in my headlights or fog lights anymore unless I buy a new vehicle that actually comes with that from the factory which
Good-- thank you!

brings me to a question that I don’t know if you’ll know the answer to but in vehicles that come with either HIDs or LED headlights, like for example the new body style ram 1500 that has the upgraded factory LED headlights, I take it those don’t have an LED bulb about like the kit that I bought where it was an LED where the glass filament was but it still had the same twist in base?
While the exterior of the lamps look largely the same, the internals are completely different. There's no "bulb" stuck in there, it's a carefully selected emitter/set of emitters with the entire lamp built around that light source choice.

In my experience, they’ve all done a really good job of giving you just a little bit extra light on the side of the road but then again, maybe all this time with all of my other vehicles current and past, I just never have had the right lightbulbs in there to where I wouldn’t have a reason to have my fog lights on.
Essentially, there's only one reason to have fog lamps on (weather) and only one speed to have fog lamps on (very slow). They're not going to put light anywhere you need it for high-speed driving. It's more of a distraction than useful light, and it limits your distance viewing.

A lot of times when I ran those Silverstar ultra‘s in some of the other cars I’ve had, they were bright enough that I really didn’t need to use my fog lights.
The SilverStar Ultras barely put out the legal amount of light required, and don't last very long, and put out a poor-quality light that tends far towards blue. Color rendition is reduced, and the eye has trouble focusing with that light.

I can also understand that and again if I have the right high beams that do what they’re supposed to, I may not even never have to run my fog lights.
Considering fog lamps are for very low speed and for picking out the road edges, and high beams are for high speed and seeing far down the road, it doesn't follow that you think your fog lamps can substitute for high beams.

I was always told that part of what makes a really good fog light is the yellow tint because the yellow light breaks through the fog and doesn’t reflect off of it like the white light does. Is this true or is this just something I’ve heard that doesn’t make sense or is inaccurate?
You were always told that by people who were wrong. It's a very persistent myth. Rayleigh scattering (the reason the sky looks blue) occurs on particles orders of magnitude smaller than the water droplets in fog. Red, green, yellow, blue, it doesn't matter the color-- it'll bounce back off the fog and in our eyes. Yellow light is much easier for our optical system to process than blue light, so the backscatter is just less glaring and uncomfortable.

All but the three or four that never highbeamed me? Hmm.
Getting or not getting highbeamed is not a reliable indicator of the amount of glare you generate.

Yeah, I don’t know, the guy that sold me the lights was from a company called vanquish auto that is no longer in business but he told me that the HIDs would work better in projectors than the LEDs would.
I guess they got vanquished.

The guy's job was to sell products, not to be a vehicle lighting expert. If it means telling customers what they want to hear, or just making things up, or reading from promotional materials from sketchy companies, then that's what they do.

A light source works best in the lamp assembly *designed for that light source*. Choosing the light source is the first step in designing a headlamp, because all the optics must be designed for the characteristics of the light source.

Also, I don’t know if this is like this with all LED replacements but the ones I had came with a little Allen wrench that allowed you to set the orientation of the diodes.
If the LED bulb could genuinely replace the halogen bulb, there would be no such user adjustment necessary (or possible!), since the light source would be the correct size, shape, orientation, and location. It should have been a red flag for you, seeing as no halogen bulb or arc-discharge capsule has such an adjustment mechanism. That Allen wrench hack is a lousy attempt to work around the severe deficiencies of such a bulb-shaped toy.

Well, I don’t know what to say then because the wiring harness fit just as tight in the bulb socket as it did in the 9006 and the bulb itself fit just as tight inside the light housing as the 9006 did.
The socket in the lamp assembly itself (where you stick the bulb in and then twist it to lock in place) is a larger diameter. The bulb may appear to seat correctly but it doesn't. The o-ring on the bulb base may mask it a little, but it's not seated correctly.
 

Alaric Darconville

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At first I wasn’t going to buy any more fog light bulbs but after Mr. Stern explained the reason for that black coating on the end of a 9006 bulb and being that yellow color is better for fog anyways,
And surely he explained exactly *why* yellow is better, and included that it is not at all based on "penetrating fog".
And surely he also advised you not to use your fog lamps as "auxiliary low beams" or when you really ought to be using high beams.
 

corneileous

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I wouldn't bother looking since they'll still be a 9005; the maximum allowable output for a 9005 is still below the minimum required output of a 9011.
I wasn’t actually looking for them I was just curious because ever since I cracked open the owners manual for my vehicle, I had never heard of a bulb having a classification called superluminous plus. Like I said before, I’ve heard of long life but not that. I just wondered if these bulbs ever actually existed being that for those who want to follow the owners manual, where would you find that exact same lightbulb minus going to the dealer which I doubt they would have anyway?
You keep saying that, and I keep saying that it's easier to fool someone into *thinking* they see better than allowing them to *actually* see better.
I know that but this is just my own personal opinion that I did see better with those lights.
Good-- thank you!
You’re welcome I guess but I didn’t do it for y’all… Lol. I chose to quit using them because they’re expensive and you don’t even really get your moneys worth out of them if they’re not gonna last any longer than just a plain ole incandescent lightbulb which is should be the whole point of an LED anyway.
While the exterior of the lamps look largely the same, the internals are completely different. There's no "bulb" stuck in there, it's a carefully selected emitter/set of emitters with the entire lamp built around that light source choice.
Oh OK so probably in other words, if one of those LEDs was to quit working you’d probably have to replace the entire headlight, correct?
The SilverStar Ultras barely put out the legal amount of light required, and don't last very long, and put out a poor-quality light that tends far towards blue. Color rendition is reduced, and the eye has trouble focusing with that light.
Hmm. I guess maybe I’m wrong but I stand strong at saying all the vehicles I’ve used them in, they were pretty impressive except for how long the life you got out of them.
You were always told that by people who were wrong. It's a very persistent myth. Rayleigh scattering (the reason the sky looks blue) occurs on particles orders of magnitude smaller than the water droplets in fog. Red, green, yellow, blue, it doesn't matter the color-- it'll bounce back off the fog and in our eyes. Yellow light is much easier for our optical system to process than blue light, so the backscatter is just less glaring and uncomfortable.
What exactly is the myth because it sounds to me like you and I are pretty much saying the same thing except you’re getting a little bit more in depth of it by saying that no matter the color, it’s still going to do your eyes the same way but it’s just less hard on your eyes than the other color which is basically what I was saying all along when I said that a good fog light should always be yellow in color.
If the LED bulb could genuinely replace the halogen bulb, there would be no such user adjustment necessary (or possible!), since the light source would be the correct size, shape, orientation, and location. It should have been a red flag for you, seeing as no halogen bulb or arc-discharge capsule has such an adjustment mechanism. That Allen wrench hack is a lousy attempt to work around the severe deficiencies of such a bulb-shaped toy.
Well, it wasn’t a red flag because I’ve never used that stuff before and didn’t know nothing about it and I don’t know anything about anybody else’s headlights because I just always assumed the reason why you could loosen up those set screws and turn that light assembly from the actual base was just to make sure you could match where that light comes out to your headlight. I don’t know.

About the part where you said the LED having the setscrew adjustment and the HIDs not, why would the HIDs need to have the ability be turned when there’s a lot more of that light coming out all around that glass cylinder than there is just from the top and the bottom or either side of that LED barrel so again, that’s why none of that was a red flag.
The socket in the lamp assembly itself (where you stick the bulb in and then twist it to lock in place) is a larger diameter. The bulb may appear to seat correctly but it doesn't. The o-ring on the bulb base may mask it a little, but it's not seated correctly.
Oh OK, you’re basically saying the diameter of the bulb itself is smaller on the 9006 than it is on the 9005… Correct? If so then that makes better sense.
 

corneileous

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And surely he explained exactly *why* yellow is better, and included that it is not at all based on "penetrating fog".
And surely he also advised you not to use your fog lamps as "auxiliary low beams" or when you really ought to be using high beams.
Well, of course he did. He was very informative.

I just hope the stuff he sold me works better than anything else I’ve tried and hopefully I get pretty good lifespan out of these.
 

Mr. Merk

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I run my fog lights when I can’t run my brights it’s just so that I could watch the side of the road for animals.

Everyone does, and I used to until I was educated by this forum, Virgil, Alaric and Dan.

The simplest explanation I found: If you're driving over 40mph and see a deer running out in front of you in your fog beam, you've already hit it. You're less likely to see and avoid a deer up the road while driving over 40mph with your fogs on.

Too much foreground light keeps you from seeing things that matter up the road. You're over driving the depth of your vision.
 

Alaric Darconville

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where would you find that exact same lightbulb minus going to the dealer which I doubt they would have anyway?
The dealer might have them and may be fairly champing at the bit for a customer to pay their dealer prices for such a bulb.

I know that but this is just my own personal opinion that I did see better with those lights.
You're allowed to have opinions but not allowed to substitute them for facts. The fact of the matter is that you didn't see better with them. I know it feels that way in your heart of hearts and it's hard to give up the notion, but by objective measure people do not see better with those bulbs than with a quality bulb.

they’re expensive and you don’t even really get your moneys worth out of them if they’re not gonna last any longer than just a plain ole incandescent lightbulb which is should be the whole point of an LED anyway.
The whole point of a bulb replacement is the lamp performing the same or better with the replacement. If the LED lasts 30 years you're still not getting your money's worth because it's performing much, much worse than before.

Oh OK so probably in other words, if one of those LEDs was to quit working you’d probably have to replace the entire headlight, correct?
Yep, if the LED in such a headlamp fails, it will require an entirely new lamp assembly. I won't say they're 'overengineered' but the lens of the lamp itself will degrade and ruin the lamp performance long before the LED(s) fail. Since the LED headlamps should not be considered a wear item, they may have a longer warranty and you'll at least have more leverage with the dealer ("One of the selling points of LEDs is that they never need replacement!").

Hmm. I guess maybe I’m wrong but I stand strong at saying all the vehicles I’ve used them in, they were pretty impressive except for how long the life you got out of them.
For a given intensity of white light, white light that tends toward blue is more glaring than neutral white and even more so than white light tending toward yellow. And it's easy to equate the glaring effect of that blue-tinged light with "more light".

What exactly is the myth because it sounds to me like you and I are pretty much saying the same thing except you’re getting a little bit more in depth of it by saying that no matter the color, it’s still going to do your eyes the same way but it’s just less hard on your eyes than the other color which is basically what I was saying all along when I said that a good fog light should always be yellow in color.
But we did not "pretty much say the same thing":
I was always told that part of what makes a really good fog light is the yellow tint because the yellow light breaks through the fog and doesn’t reflect off of it like the white light does.
The myth is that "yellow light penetrates fog better than yellow light" or "breaks through fog". The myth is that it "doesn't reflect off fog light like the white light does". Light will reflect off fog regardless of the color.

Well, it wasn’t a red flag because I’ve never used that stuff before and didn’t know nothing about it and I don’t know anything about anybody else’s headlights because I just always assumed the reason why you could loosen up those set screws and turn that light assembly from the actual base was just to make sure you could match where that light comes out to your headlight.
And with a halogen bulb there's never ever EVER a need to "loosen set screws" to adjust the position of the filament relative to the base because it always ends up in the correct position every time.

About the part where you said the LED having the setscrew adjustment and the HIDs not, why would the HIDs need to have the ability be turned when there’s a lot more of that light coming out all around that glass cylinder than there is just from the top and the bottom or either side of that LED barrel so again, that’s why none of that was a red flag.
HID capsules also lock into place in the lamp assembly by means of a notch on the edge of the base and a pin in the lamp socket, and so cannot rotate. The return wire is in the right place and stays in the right place.

Oh OK, you’re basically saying the diameter of the bulb itself is smaller on the 9006 than it is on the 9005… Correct? If so then that makes better sense.
Right, the diameter of the bulb *base*. The envelope (the glass part)) diameter isn't issue, it's the plastic base with the tabs and the O-ring. The "20" and "22" in P20d and P22d is the diameter in millimeters (the "P" stands for "prefocus", which means that the bulb will be at the correct focus without any adjustments necessary when correctly installed).
 
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