Halcyon 2 C-cell Scout upgrade?

[Henrik]

Complete newbie here, so bear with me ...

I have upgraded a couple of Halcyon Scout 3 C-cell lights using the DX R2 drop-in modules: (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11836 , http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13658)

I cut a sliver of 1" PVC pipe as a spacer and used a brass washer drilled up to a press fit to complete the electrical circuit.

Hoping against hope ;-) I tried my "upgrade" in my 2 C-cell Scouts, but the LED didn't light up. My electrical knowledge is severely limited, but I'm guessing the voltage wasn't high enough ?

My "machining" options are limited to basic hand tools, but I can solder - not good at it, but it often works.

I was thinking that using a boost driver of sorts in the DX drop-in might work. I'm not sure if any of them would fit in the drop-in.

I bought extra reflectors from DX (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5955), so I'd be up for trying my hand at buying separate LED/star and drivers and installing them.

It looks like I'll need a driver that's 17.4mm diameter and max 6mm "tall" to fit. This one is too small in diameter to fit the reflector "tail" well, but the specs look like they're what I need - right: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25505

For LED stars I was looking at these: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15943 (star is too big - can it be filed down?)
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11022 (good size)

Any feed-back, parts pionters and ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Henrik

 

[Packhorse]

Option one. Use Li Ion cells instead that have a higher voltage.
Option two find a boost driver. The one you linked too should be able to be fitted. Just use some Fuji thermal glue to pot it into the back of the drop in and solder theouter ring to the brass pill with a piece of wire.

I wonder how hot these drop ins get inside a plastic light like the Scouts. If you can run them at reduced output of say 500ma heat shouldnt be much of a problem and run time will be plenty. It should still be brighter than a stock Scout LED too.

 

[Henrik]

Thanks Packhorse,

Li-Ion would work, however rechargeables are "frowned upon" for back-up lights, so I'd like to stick with standard C-cells.

Can the 20mm stars be filed down to fit the 17mm opening in the front of the pill? It looks like I could take off enough without getting into the electronics, but can you confirm?

The drop-ins get quite warm. The R2 drop-ins seem ok, but the XR-E drop-in feels very warm to the touch even after just a few minutes runtime. I'm sure it's not ideal.

To run them at 500 mA I would have to find a driver with those specs ... right (newbie question, I realize)? The one I linked to specs 600 mA ± 50 mA. That seems to be close ... is it close enough or does the 100 mA make the difference?

Can you recommend other stores to shop for reasonably priced drivers and LED stars - don't want to spend too much on my first try since I'm likely to bugger up at least some of these before I get it right

Thanks again,

Henrik

 

[Henrik]

Oops, edit: The XP-G drop-ins get quite hot: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32953

In the Scout the XP-G is only a tad brighter - as per my finely calibrated eye - and the hot spot is bit bigger.

Henrik

 

[Packhorse]

Thanks Packhorse,

Li-Ion would work, however rechargeables are "frowned upon" for back-up lights,

By who and why?

In the end its your choice but make sure you make that choice based on your requirements.

I use nothing but rechargeables in my lights.

Gone are the days where rechargables had to have high self disharge rates.
Li Ion and new generation NiMh cells will remain charged for 6 months to a year or more at reasonable capacity. If you cant charge up your cells twice a year then yes primary cells make sense. But is this really the case?

The other option is to not use C cells.
Perhaps Use Lithium primarys in spaces so they are the same size as C's. This way you could use CR123's or AA's.

I cant really answer the question about 500ma vs 600ma. For all I know 500ma may produce too much heat. This could be the very reason Halcyon produce such a low powered light in the first place.

 

[Henrik]

By who and why?

In the end its your choice but make sure you make that choice based on your requirements.

Oh, that's a long discussion for another day when we sit and share a couple of cold ones

The other option is to not use C cells.
Perhaps Use Lithium primarys in spaces so they are the same size as C's. This way you could use CR123's or AA's.

That's a very good idea. When I was testing out the first "upgrade" I used 3 x AA in spacers. Worked out great. 2 x CR123 should work fine in some form of spacer tube.

I cant really answer the question about 500ma vs 600ma. For all I know 500ma may produce too much heat. This could be the very reason Halcyon produce such a low powered light in the first place.

Good point. I can't give you any temperature measurements for the R2 upgrades so hard to know - I understand. A short term, anecdotal point of reference: I've run the R2 upgrade in my 3 C-cell light for about 15 hours under water now. So far seemingly no ill effects.

Thanks again for your help. I'll post if I come up with something that works.

Henrik

 

[buckeye_jeff]

Did you get your upgrade to work? I'm trying to figure out what battery configuration will work best for a Cree R5 in a 3 C-cell Scout.

 

[350xfire]

Yes Pack the hardcore GUE crowd doesn't like rechargeables in their back ups... To me, as long as you test the batteries periodically and they are found to be good I don't care.

 

[Klem]

"...however rechargeables are "frowned upon" for back-up lights."

Hmmmm.

If you believe there is a risk associated with using rechargeables vis-à-vis primary's then you must also concede there is a risk in following other people's risk-assessments.

Every aspect of diving contains a measure of risk, which by definition is the combination of potential outcome, and the probability of occurrence. When you weigh the potential outcome against the probability of occurrence of your back-up failing because of using rechargeable batteries, and you are worried about this to the point of not wanting to use them...then it's probably a good time to take up golf.

(or carry a $2 glow-stick for emergencies...or a third torch...or swim with a buddy who has torches...or golf)

 

[350xfire]

Very nice Dr. Klem!

 

[Klem]

HAHAHAHA...Yes, I put my other hat on for that reply . Always happy to dish out advice to people who probably don't want it.

Henrik, mate if you disagree then by all means tell me to belt-up. Truth be known however, I can't remember the last time I put non-rechargeable batteries in any of my torches...it would be too expensive.

 

[jtivat]

By who and why?

I
Gone are the days where rechargables had to have high self disharge rates.
Li Ion and new generation NiMh cells will remain charged for 6 months to a year or more at reasonable capacity. If you cant charge up your cells twice a year then yes primary cells make sense. But is this really the case?

I think the issue is that a lot of tech divers have been taught this and do not realize that there are newer better rechargeable options out there.

 

[Packhorse]

I think the issue is that a lot of tech divers have been taught this and do not realize that there are newer better rechargeable options out there.

Which brings us back to this....

If you believe there is a risk associated with using rechargeables vis-à-vis primary's then you must also concede there is a risk in following other people's risk-assessments.

If rechargables are such a no no in backups why use them in primary lights?

Perhaps I simply do not do the kind of "technical " dives that warrant concern of rechargables batteries. But I cant recall a single issue I have had where the rechargable battery pack was at fault.

 

[lucca brassi]

I have GUE boks and they are written in times when Scout still have normal bulbs , that's why C size.
NiCd was expensive and have fast self discharging (that's why alakaline )

PS: I still like C size more than AA ,AAA,C123 , but I use all NiMh and no LiXXX . I just like more NiMH discharging graph than others .

NiMh made during discharging voltage difference in range 0,1 V (1,3 Vat max -1,2V min at cca 85% ) what make almost constant current

LiXX made during discharging voltage difference in range 1V or more. (and bring more loses on driver )

http://www.buchmann.ca/article4-page1.asp

 

[Klem]

"Li-Ion would work, however rechargeables are "frowned upon" for back-up lights..."

The maxim makes two assumptions;
1. Rechargeables are less reliable than primary's, to a critical degree.
2. Divers need the guidance of a maxim because they don't fully understand electronics.

Reviewing the maxim in October 2010;
1. Times have changed and battery chemistry is more reliable.
2. Frequent posters on this site know more about batteries than the average diver...and it's a a fair bet that also includes the person who designed the maxim.

Next time I put rechargeables into my back-up's (which I have been doing for twenty years) I'm going to feel a little strange

...Thanks Mr GUE!