Has anyone read any new LED in research?

[CalgaryGuy]

Has anyone read any new LED in research? Cree and Rebel has been out for over 2 years now and their efficiency seem to have been push to the limit. Latest cr123 light from Fenix doesn't have much improvement as they used to be. Luxeon LED was the king for about 3 years and taken over by the other two. If anyone read any new Led, please point me to the right direction. Thanks.

 

[xpea]

interested too to get some fresh news here. It's so boring to see these "new" Q5 and R2 lights...

So when is the next jump in efficiency ?




PS: I don't consider MC-E and P7 new stuff, same efficiency as 2 years old parts...

 

[Glenn7]

This is a quote from sunlites website:

Technology

We make the LED head starting from LED chip level. It has better thermo management than Cree, Lumileds
and Seoul LEDs. The thermal conductivity of our LED is 8 times higher than Cree's Q5 LED

The output light beam of Eagle 8W is more parallel and can reach further than any of the LED flashlights
using same size reflector but with Cree Q5, K2 TFFC or Seoul P4 LEDs. Our LED chip is 1.5 X 1.5 mm, larger
than the LED chip (1 X 1 mm) used for Cree Q5, K2 TFFC or Seoul P4 LEDs, so it can be driven at much
higher current.

Our LED chip is not packaged in the 5mm dome as other power LEDs. The reflector of our flashlight sees the
1.5 X 1.5 mm LED chip, instead of a light source enlarged by the 5 X 5 mm dome. Our flashlight therefore
can throw the light further than other flashlights.

and here is a thread for in CPF of some of us that have bought one http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=217294 :thumbsup:

 

[Tirodani]

There's been discussion very recently about exciting experimental results from Cree. Should be easy to search out.

 

[Kestrel]

I've been wondering about this exact topic as well and have been tempted to start a thread like this myself over the last few days. Even though I'd like to see some brighter emitters on the market (wouldn't everyone), all I really want is for someone with the inside scoop to say that company xxx expects LED's with yy% higher output to be released for the the consumer market approximately z months from now.

experimental results

I'm involved with research where I work and I know that anybody can write about good results in the laboratory. I've seen promotional brochures from our organization that say our work is getting all these fantastic results, and I'm thinking, Do they even work here? Our lab results were nowhere near that promising.:thinking::hairpull:

 

[Glenn7]

I've been wondering about this exact topic as well and have been tempted to start a thread like this myself over the last few days. Even though I'd like to see some brighter emitters on the market (wouldn't everyone), all I really want is for someone with the inside scoop to say that company xxx expects LED's with yy% higher output to be released for the the consumer market approximately z months from now.

I'm involved with research where I work and I know that anybody can write about good results in the laboratory. I've seen promotional brochures from our organization that say our work is getting all these fantastic results, and I'm thinking, Do they even work here? Our lab results were nowhere near that promising.:thinking::hairpull:

did you go to the forum i posted? - you will see an LED that is new and out shines the others - i only ask because the question was asked - then i showed you were a brighter led was - then you said where is a brighter LED? :thinking:

and BTW sunlite is bringing out a 16W LED in a single die that will put out more than 500 lumens - that will kill the P7/MC-E - not to mention their 8w one they have now that produces 300+ lumens 😗

 

[Kestrel]

Sorry to miss it, I could've sworn that your post wasn't there when I posted, but most of my brain cells are working on a big thread I'm running at the moment. Will check back tomorrow or over the weekend. Thanks,
K

 

[sol-leks]

I know this may sound like heresy to say, but I wonder if research has slowed down a little simply because LED's are already so bright. I mean of course we are talking about efficiency even more than brightness, but led's are already quite efficient. It seems to me that the biggest area for led research is perfect tint and creating a feasible led for home lighting use.
I guess I just remember not too many years ago when we were all carrying around enormous maglites that put out a pretty feeble beam, and being happy with it while now I have a lod with a 10440 that can put it those old mags to shame.

 

[Glenn7]

Thats ok buddy - just trying to help 😀

 

[mejesster]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/14/researchers-develop-higher-efficiency-leds/
Is that of interest?

 

[CalgaryGuy]

Thanks guys for your input. I agree with Kestrel that unless they can actually produce the lumen that they claim, there is no point on claiming "experimental result" and unable to archive what they claim. I sure hope that Surefire UB2 Invictus is still in progress, 400 lumen on 2 x 123.

 

[DM51]

This thread belongs in LED rather than LED Flashlights, so I'm mving it now.

 

[was.lost.but.now.found]

and BTW sunlite is bringing out a 16W LED in a single die that will put out more than 500 lumens - that will kill the P7/MC-E - not to mention their 8w one they have now that produces 300+ lumens 😗

I could be mistaken but while this may be a gain for light output from a single die, is it not a horrible loss in efficiency compared to other leds on the market today (31lm/watt compared to nearly (or over) 100lm/watt for many cree and seoul leds)?

We make the LED head starting from LED chip level. It has better thermo management than Cree, Lumileds
and Seoul LEDs. The thermal conductivity of our LED is 8 times higher than Cree's Q5 LED

Isn't the main issue with heat syncing not necessarily getting the heat off the physical led, but rather getting it through a network of epoxy and metal to the surrounding flashlight body? Again I could be wrong; this is just by observations from CPF posts and readings over the last few months.

 

[Stefans]

161Lumens/Watt seems to be Cree:s latest proved result:
http://flashlightnews.org/story1825.shtml

If that could have 130-140 Lumens/Watt driven att 3W then that would be sweet.

 

[2xTrinity]

The output light beam of Eagle 8W is more parallel and can reach further than any of the LED flashlights
using same size reflector but with Cree Q5, K2 TFFC or Seoul P4 LEDs. Our LED chip is 1.5 X 1.5 mm, larger
than the LED chip (1 X 1 mm) used for Cree Q5, K2 TFFC or Seoul P4 LEDs, so it can be driven at much
higher current.

I understand how larger die area can accomodate more current, and have lower thermal resistance than a small die.. but how does could that possibly be MORE collimated in the same sized reflector than a light with a smaller, more point-like die?

I could be mistaken but while this may be a gain for light output from a single die, is it not a horrible loss in efficiency compared to other leds on the market today (31lm/watt compared to nearly (or over) 100lm/watt for many cree and seoul leds)?

So much so that you could overdrive a Cree R2 to mayble 1.3 Amps, and get 300 lumens. Compare that to 300 lumens at 8 watts. Even despite the better thermal conducitivity, 8 watts is so much that it would more than offset the improved thermal conductivity and STILL be running hotter than the "overdriven" Cree R2 pulling just about 4...

 

[glenda17]

I don't think any of these LED's are being developed for flashlights. If flashlights are .1% of their business I would be surprised. There is no way the flashlight market could be supporting the R&D costs.

 

[jashhash]

Sunlite claims that removing the dome of an LED increases throw. Is there any way to remove the dome of a Cree?

 

[Ryanrpm]

Sunlite claims that removing the dome of an LED increases throw. Is there any way to remove the dome of a Cree?

I don't know that they claim removing that dome will increase throw. They claim rather that by not having a dome just gives you a smaller light source which makes a tighter beam. Sunlite LED's are not designed to be used with a dome.

You could remove the dome of a Cree, but you would then have to adjust the height of the emitter to get the correct focus. That dome helps position the light source inside the reflector.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you remove the dome from a Cree, the emitter now sits inside a small 'bowl' and might not have all of its light reach the reflector.

 

[saabluster]

Sunlite claims that removing the dome of an LED increases throw. Is there any way to remove the dome of a Cree?

Yes. It happens all the time with Crees without even trying. The glass dome is very easy to knock off. The result is an LED with a reduced apparent die size which does help with throw but along with it comes a tint shift and reduction in lumen output somewhere in the 25-30% range.

 

[saabluster]

I don't know that they claim removing that dome will increase throw. They claim rather that by not having a dome just gives you a smaller light source which makes a tighter beam. Sunlite LED's are not designed to be used with a dome.

You could remove the dome of a Cree, but you would then have to adjust the height of the emitter to get the correct focus. That dome helps position the light source inside the reflector.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you remove the dome from a Cree, the emitter now sits inside a small 'bowl' and might not have all of its light reach the reflector.

Yes Ryan it does increase throw and that is essentially what they are saying. The "tighter" beam is refering to the more collimated beam because of it being closer to a point source light. That means the light rays are more parallel to one another and will go farther before they spread apart to the point where the intensity of the beam is decreased and you cannot see a target.
Also the dome is never used to "center" the LED in a reflector as it has a very weak bond to the underlying metal ring. The metal ring is what is used to center with. If you remove just the dome then yes the die would rest in what might be described as a bowl but you can also remove that "bowl" or ring that surrounds the die. The die actually sits right on top of the ceramic so that if the ring was removed the light from the die would be able to go a full 180 degrees.