HDS High Noon Second Run interest thread

[Eciton]

Sorry. The heads have been built, just waiting on the Rotary switch cap which are done but at the anodizer.

Hey Hogo — I know I'm starting to sound like a stuck record now, but... any update? The clock is ticking for me on this since I'm coming over to the US on a business trip in less than a month and I was hoping to pick the HDS up from my brother while I'm over. I figured I had plenty of safety margin but apparently not!

 

[Kgp]

Hogo, I know its not your problem, you were just looking out for others and offering a great light. I am not happy with the wait. Waiting a couple months for december was no issue, another couple months is too much. I would like a refund. I'm sure you can sell it to someone else but I dont want my money tied up any longer. Its 24 lights, why cant henry take them off other production models? Or make mine a clicky.. regardless, I don't want it any longer.

 

[F89]

Hogo, I know its not your problem, you were just looking out for others and offering a great light. I am not happy with the wait. Waiting a couple months for december was no issue, another couple months is too much. I would like a refund. I'm sure you can sell it to someone else but I dont want my money tied up any longer. Its 24 lights, why cant henry take them off other production models? Or make mine a clicky.. regardless, I don't want it any longer.

I'm sure Hogo will look after you and you're well entitled to your view.

I've bought two lights from Hogo from group buys and experienced waits, anyone who looks into HDS has been aware of this factor.
Out of the five HDS I've bought, two have been Hogo group buys, two from HDS and one from an auction. I experienced quite a wait on my first one from HDS perhaps similar to most group buys.
Personally I just waited but I can understand the desire to hurry up.
Hogo puts in a fair amount of effort to make these great runs happen and I'd like to see more in the future. That said I find this discouraging and would recommend those not willing to experience the delays to not get involved.

 

[d13avo]

I'm sure Hogo will look after you and you're well entitled to your view.

I've bought two lights from Hogo from group buys and experienced waits, anyone who looks into HDS has been aware of this factor.
Out of the five HDS I've bought, two have been Hogo group buys, two from HDS and one from an auction. I experienced quite a wait on my first one from HDS perhaps similar to most group buys.
Personally I just waited but I can understand the desire to hurry up.
Hogo puts in a fair amount of effort to make these great runs happen and I'd like to see more in the future. That said I find this discouraging and would recommend those not willing to experience the delays to not get involved.

Agreed. With this High Noon I will have seven HDS, one auction, two from HDS and four from Dan. I am self employed and know sometimes things go wrong which are totally out of your control. I also am very patient and will wait, whatever will be will be.

 

[Kgp]

I'm sure Hogo will look after you and you're well entitled to your view.

I've bought two lights from Hogo from group buys and experienced waits, anyone who looks into HDS has been aware of this factor.
Out of the five HDS I've bought, two have been Hogo group buys, two from HDS and one from an auction. I experienced quite a wait on my first one from HDS perhaps similar to most group buys.
Personally I just waited but I can understand the desire to hurry up.
Hogo puts in a fair amount of effort to make these great runs happen and I'd like to see more in the future. That said I find this discouraging and would recommend those not willing to experience the delays to not get involved.

I respect your opinion, but as a business owner myself, I try and give accurate ETA's. If the last 2 went well over the ETA by months, why would I make the same mistake the 3rd or 4th time ETC..? Why would I tell people an inaccurate ETA based of my previous experience? I try and learn from my mistakes, not keep making the same ones over and over. Just thinking back to 2009 when I bought my first HDS, they were having the same issues, was I wrong for hoping 9 years later they might have worked out their bugs or slow downs in production? When I do a bid for a customer and give them a time frame, I have to honor that and if the customer is unhappy that I went over by months I would expect to have an unhappy customer. We are not talking building a house, we are talking about anodizing a tailcap. I did email henry and although you cant interpret emotion in written word, I got the impression that I was bothering him and he didn't want to do this to begin with. He said it will be done when its done. These have no rush and no priority. If I remember correctly, I ordered in september with an ETA of december. I was willing to wait. January came and gone, I was patient, its almost the end of february. I have lost interest. Also disappointed in the communication. I have no doubt both Hogo and Henry will make good on their end of the sale eventually. But as a paying customer, I would like to be kept in the loop. Last I heard, he was thinking to have them done before shot show and that's where the communication stops. I feel like I have been patient and understanding in the delays, so to say you find my post discouraging and recommending those not willing to experience delays to not get involved, I have to rebuttal. I find the constant delays and lack of communication discouraging. I find you and others who do not hold a business to any sort of eta and lack of communication as totally acceptable discouraging. I have been a loyal HDS customer from the beginning. I have seen the delays and what not. I have seen the prices go up substantially. I find it hard to believe that even with premium prices he cant find someone to anodize 24 tail caps for months and months.. Im thinking the problem is he is not willing to pay the extra to get it done to keep the ETA and trying to keep his bottom line sourcing the cheapest around at his customers wait. Just my opinion, I have been wrong about other things many times before. Just ask my wife. I know things go wrong and are out of your control, but if thats how my business is run for the last 9 years, the problem might be with me. Or I say "we have a back log of about 6 months. Do not order unless your willing to wait a year to get your 300 dollar flashlight". That way, anyone willing to wait knows up front, and if you can get it to them faster, you are the hero not the problem. If that was the info I was told, i would have never jumped on...

 

[F89]

I respect your opinion, but as a business owner myself, I try and give accurate ETA's. If the last 2 went well over the ETA by months, why would I make the same mistake the 3rd or 4th time ETC..? Why would I tell people an inaccurate ETA based of my previous experience? I try and learn from my mistakes, not keep making the same ones over and over. Just thinking back to 2009 when I bought my first HDS, they were having the same issues, was I wrong for hoping 9 years later they might have worked out their bugs or slow downs in production? When I do a bid for a customer and give them a time frame, I have to honor that and if the customer is unhappy that I went over by months I would expect to have an unhappy customer. We are not talking building a house, we are talking about anodizing a tailcap. I did email henry and although you cant interpret emotion in written word, I got the impression that I was bothering him and he didn't want to do this to begin with. He said it will be done when its done. These have no rush and no priority. If I remember correctly, I ordered in september with an ETA of december. I was willing to wait. January came and gone, I was patient, its almost the end of february. I have lost interest. Also disappointed in the communication. I have no doubt both Hogo and Henry will make good on their end of the sale eventually. But as a paying customer, I would like to be kept in the loop. Last I heard, he was thinking to have them done before shot show and that's where the communication stops. I feel like I have been patient and understanding in the delays, so to say you find my post discouraging and recommending those not willing to experience delays to not get involved, I have to rebuttal. I find the constant delays and lack of communication discouraging. I find you and others who do not hold a business to any sort of eta and lack of communication as totally acceptable discouraging. I have been a loyal HDS customer from the beginning. I have seen the delays and what not. I have seen the prices go up substantially. I find it hard to believe that even with premium prices he cant find someone to anodize 24 tail caps for months and months.. Im thinking the problem is he is not willing to pay the extra to get it done to keep the ETA and trying to keep his bottom line sourcing the cheapest around at his customers wait. Just my opinion, I have been wrong about other things many times before. Just ask my wife. I know things go wrong and are out of your control, but if thats how my business is run for the last 9 years, the problem might be with me. Or I say "we have a back log of about 6 months. Do not order unless your willing to wait a year to get your 300 dollar flashlight". That way, anyone willing to wait knows up front, and if you can get it to them faster, you are the hero not the problem. If that was the info I was told, i would have never jumped on...

I'm not condoning poor business practice here and your disappointment is understandable.
My main point is that it's generally known that delays, likely lengthy ones, are common with HDS. For good, bad or indifferent it is what it is.

To ad to that, Hogo has indicated his own frustrations with getting these group buys sorted. He obviously doesn't want to **** people around but is sometimes put in a compromising position due to manufacturing delays.
Once again, delays have become common knowledge with HDS production but regardless Hogo perserveres to bring us cool group buys.
Hogo has communicated here many times that HDS delays and so on tick him off, as you may expect, to which I believe he is now becoming more involved with HDS and striving to improve on such issues.

 

[aginthelaw]

I've waited up to 18 months for custom stuff, i.e., Randall and Hartsfield knives, guns from Seecamp, Ed Brown, Novak's, Wilson...it was always worth the wait. HDS is along those same lines

 

[Kgp]

I'm not condoning poor business practice here and your disappointment is understandable.
My main point is that it's generally known that delays, likely lengthy ones, are common with HDS. For good, bad or indifferent it is what it is.

To ad to that, Hogo has indicated his own frustrations with getting these group buys sorted. He obviously doesn't want to **** people around but is sometimes put in a compromising position due to manufacturing delays.
Once again, delays have become common knowledge with HDS production but regardless Hogo perserveres to bring us cool group buys.
Hogo has communicated here many times that HDS delays and so on tick him off, as you may expect, to which I believe he is now becoming more involved with HDS and striving to improve on such issues.

Understood, but you will have to forgive me because I do not hang out on this site often. Whats common knowledge for you, isnt for me. When someone tells me a time and date, I try and stick with it.

I've waited up to 18 months for custom stuff, i.e., Randall and Hartsfield knives, guns from Seecamp, Ed Brown, Novak's, Wilson...it was always worth the wait. HDS is along those same lines

That's the thing, when I order a custom ed brown or wilson, on the website it says about 18 months for delivery. If I ordered and expected to wait 18 months, and 3 years later I am still waiting... And, custom firearms are hand fit to the tightest tolerances. These flashlights are all machine lathed. You really cant compare. Now if Henry was building each one by hand and making sure the threads were .001" in spacing, that the checkering matched perfectly and the anodizing wasnt a shade off from each part, and that each piece fit together like a puzzle piece, and advertised such a wait, I wouldnt be here complaining.

 

[F89]

Understood, but you will have to forgive me because I do not hang out on this site often. Whats common knowledge for you, isnt for me. When someone tells me a time and date, I try and stick with it.

That's the thing, when I order a custom ed brown or wilson, on the website it says about 18 months for delivery. If I ordered and expected to wait 18 months, and 3 years later I am still waiting... And, custom firearms are hand fit to the tightest tolerances. These flashlights are all machine lathed. You really cant compare. Now if Henry was building each one by hand and making sure the threads were .001" in spacing, that the checkering matched perfectly and the anodizing wasnt a shade off from each part, and that each piece fit together like a puzzle piece, and advertised such a wait, I wouldnt be here complaining.

No worries, all valid points.
Things being as they are if you're ready to pull out I'm sure you'll be refunded and someone will jump on your spot which is likely close to the end of the big wait.

 

[fisk-king]

Understood, but you will have to forgive me because I do not hang out on this site often. Whats common knowledge for you, isnt for me. When someone tells me a time and date, I try and stick with it.

That's the thing, when I order a custom ed brown or wilson, on the website it says about 18 months for delivery. If I ordered and expected to wait 18 months, and 3 years later I am still waiting... And, custom firearms are hand fit to the tightest tolerances. These flashlights are all machine lathed. You really cant compare. Now if Henry was building each one by hand and making sure the threads were .001" in spacing, that the checkering matched perfectly and the anodizing wasnt a shade off from each part, and that each piece fit together like a puzzle piece, and advertised such a wait, I wouldnt be here complaining.

Kgp, respectfully this issue has been going on for over 10 years. Henry delivers its just that part times stretches out in an untimely matter. You can go back to HDS threat #8 (for ex.) and this was an issue. Henry will make due.

 

[FroggyTaco]

No worries, all valid points.
Things being as they are if you're ready to pull out I'm sure you'll be refunded and someone will jump on your spot which is likely close to the end of the big wait.

These special orders were billed as non-refundable because my understanding is that Hogo isn't really making money on the lights rather he just like the end results & didn't want to buy 20 of them so he proctored the special run so we all "profit" the customized LED.

This all falls on Henry's production planning & intolerance for out of spec parts measurement wise.

 

[Keitho]

OK. Expect the second run of High Noon lights to ship in December. It should be earlier, but I want a nice cushion of time.
They have been placed in my web store. Once the limit is reached, they will be pulled.

Hogo out!

While I appreciate the effort of Hogo and HDS, I have to echo the frustration from above that the root cause of delays on previous group buys obviously hasn't been addressed. As business owners and process managers, we are not judged by what we do (that is, long hours), but by what we get done (delivering results to customers). Blaming customers for complaining about broken promises is backwards.

It is time to evaluate true root cause of repetitive schedule failures, and implement solutions that guarantee that the same thing won't happen a fourth, fifth, and sixth time.

 

[d13avo]

While I appreciate the effort of Hogo and HDS, I have to echo the frustration from above that the root cause of delays on previous group buys obviously hasn't been addressed. As business owners and process managers, we are not judged by what we do (that is, long hours), but by what we get done (delivering results to customers). Blaming customers for complaining about broken promises is backwards.

It is time to evaluate true root cause of repetitive schedule failures, and implement solutions that guarantee that the same thing won't happen a fourth, fifth, and sixth time.

I think this is the reason why Dan has joined HDS as Henry is an engineer and Dan is better on the business end.

 

[FroggyTaco]

While I appreciate the effort of Hogo and HDS, I have to echo the frustration from above that the root cause of delays on previous group buys obviously hasn't been addressed. As business owners and process managers, we are not judged by what we do (that is, long hours), but by what we get done (delivering results to customers). Blaming customers for complaining about broken promises is backwards.

It is time to evaluate true root cause of repetitive schedule failures, and implement solutions that guarantee that the same thing won't happen a fourth, fifth, and sixth time.

I would obviously prefer to have my lights I'm waiting on as well already so I'm more with y'all than against but I'm privileged enough to already have some HDS to tide me over until these arrive.

Also if you peruse the last 2-10 pages of HDS Megathread#19 you will see that as of a few weeks ago Hogo is now "partnering" with Henry & will be tackling the business sides of HDS & that will allow Henry to focus on what he does best.

For all of you entrepreneurs I would think you would know better than most the challenges of moving your business from a one man show to a multiple person operation & the herculean change in so many facets of business that takes. Add into the calculation where Henry is in life & I don't blame him for not wanting the extra risk/headache/stress. I know I wouldn't & I have been self employed for the last eight years so I have some experience to back what I'm saying.

 

[Kgp]

I just wanted to update everyone. Hogo is a stand up guy. He took care of me and we have another member who jumped in my spot. So it looks like everyone got what they wanted. All is well that ends well. This is a great forum and a great helpful community. I do apologize for my rants above. Not really my style.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

No problem KGP. The rant was deserved and not even close to being as hostile as I have been with Henry regarding this last delay. I went full on pissed off LEO mode on him this last time... and I didn't let up. Which is probably why he brought me into HDS to fix these issues back in January. It is quite unacceptable. If I ran my leather business this way, I would be living under a bridge in downtown Tucson and deservedly so. I try to communicate that there can be extensive delays, but previously, I had no control on these and no other point of contact other than Henry. Now I can deal with the vendors producing parts directly. In fact, I told Henry once to stop saying "2 weeks" because everyone knows it isn't going to be "2 weeks". I was much cruder and hostile and when I said it. It's a good thing we are friends or he might have armed himself.

It is true, I don't give refunds on these as I no longer have the money, but I do try to connect folks to others who may want to take their spot as done in your case.

As you said, all is well that ends well. My reputation here is important to me, and my reputation with my leather business. I'm working on Henry's reputation now with HDS and actually shipping lights and having these production delays stop. It's been a bear of a last month doing parts inventories and frantically contacting vendors to stop delays we saw would happen again in a few months if nothing was done. Henry is a brilliant engineer and extremely anal retentive when it comes to the lights, but tracing inventory and time... well, not so much.

 

[FroggyTaco]

Well I have to give Henry some credit & I respect him more for being willing to own his weak areas & allow you to come alongside & assist with improving those areas of the business.

 

[karlthev]

"And now, the rest of the story...".....

I'm the mystery man (aka, "legend in his own mind") part in this Grimm's Fairy Tale it seems.:devil: I came across this thread only the other day, did a quick read and, wanted to get in on this, the 2nd limited run. I PMed Kgp, asked him if the entry door had closed yet and, did the same for "Hogo" calling him "Henry"!! Good show I thought and, fat chance getting one now! Anyway, Kgp threw me some bait indicating he might be willing to part with his spot in line. "Hugo" (I'm using CPF nomenclature since I'm not sure everyone wishes his/her? true identity divulged) told me that his proper name wasn't Henry but also said he might have someone who might relinquish their position in the wait line! Turns out I had just (JUST!) been in contact with Hugo earlier this week about another matter AND, Kpg was the other whom I had contacted via a PM. No doubt ALL of you are on the edge of your seat now...right?!! :huh:Well, through the mystery of cyberspace, funds were transferred from karlthev to Kgp and, shazam, I'm on the the list and, with renewed vigor and enthusiasm!!

I just know we can all rest peacefully tonight and, not have our cell phones on, waiting for the next chapter. Nah, I'm not quitting my "day job"!

Karl

 

[jerrybryant86]

I just bought someone's place in this run too!

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

So everyone knows, your High Noon lights will be shipping with the latest version of the software, version 2.18.
Sometimes delays can be a good thing!