HDS HDS Systems #23

kerneldrop

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The 219b 3500k R9080 I have has a magenta tint.
If you like magenta then you'll like a 219b lower flux bin, otherwise you'll think it sucks and you'll want a more neutral emitter.

To further complicate this....
Within the 219b, there are rankings "Flux Bins" and each ranking has its own tint properties
The lower the rank the more rosy the tint (excluding 2700k which is orange)
HDS shows a D180 ranking...that's not on the datasheet, but it has to be rosy.

1663285152278.png
 

ekardscribner73

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How does the throw of the Nichia emitter HDS lights compare to the NLT [at comparable output levels]? Both emitters have a footprint of ~3.5mm so I'd expect them to be very similar.
 

kerneldrop

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How does the throw of the Nichia emitter HDS lights compare to the NLT [at comparable output levels]? Both emitters have a footprint of ~3.5mm so I'd expect them to be very similar.

It's the die size that mostly determines the beam profile. The die size is different than the footprint.
For example, an SST20 is a 3.5mm but will be more throwy than a 219b or 351 due to its smaller die size.

The larger the difference in the reflector/optic size to the LED die size, the more throwy it will be.
In other words, the smaller the die size and the larger the head, the more throw you will have.

The LED emitter datasheets do not publish die sizes...usually an LED junkie will take measurements and post up on BLF or reddit
 

LRJ88

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Just got word back from ye olde European cutlery shoppe, apparently the wait list for the SDR50 is now to 2202/01/29, i’m asking about other models too but this is getting silly.
 

LRJ88

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My advice would be buying the SDR50 Rotary at HDS directly. I did this with my NB27 today.
I was considering that at first, but the cost would be as much for the flashlight and customs as for all of the stuff i ordered on the site, not counting shipping from HDS as well. I'll wait until i get a reply regarding other coming models there, if there's none coming i'll reconsider just ordering from HDS instead.
 

Duster1671

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I'm just curious -- why are the 218b emitters limited to up to 200 lumens?

1500ma is max forward current
700ma is ~240 lumens (ranges from 200-280 depending on cct)
1.5ma is ~456 lumens

Are the lights tuned to 1/2 throttle?
In short, yes.

HDS is very (imo excessively) conservative with LED power. I think the 219b models end up driving the LED at about 1A on max brightness. After ~30% loss between emitter output and light OTF, that gives you the 200 lumens for the higher CCTs and 180 lumens for the lower CCTs.

I would prefer if max brightness drove the 219b at 1.5A, which is a safe drive current assuming the host can draw heat away effectively. A couple of potential issues that might have informed the lower drive current:

1. HDS does not use a MCPCB for the LED.
2. There is apparently a heat-sensitive component on the driver directly under the LED. Maybe there was no other way to do it, but that seems like an obvious design problem that could limit how hard the LED is driven.
 

LEDphile

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In short, yes.

HDS is very (imo excessively) conservative with LED power. I think the 219b models end up driving the LED at about 1A on max brightness. After ~30% loss between emitter output and light OTF, that gives you the 200 lumens for the higher CCTs and 180 lumens for the lower CCTs.

I would prefer if max brightness drove the 219b at 1.5A, which is a safe drive current assuming the host can draw heat away effectively. A couple of potential issues that might have informed the lower drive current:

1. HDS does not use a MCPCB for the LED.
2. There is apparently a heat-sensitive component on the driver directly under the LED. Maybe there was no other way to do it, but that seems like an obvious design problem that could limit how hard the LED is driven.
My understanding is that the limiting factor is the battery, not the LED. The highest continuous load current that the major CR123 vendors provide data for is 1A, which gets you 700-800mA at the LED by the time you are done with driver efficiency and any needed voltage step-up (a CR123 can be as low as about 2.5V with a 1A draw). That's right in line with 200 measured lumens out the front of the light.
 

Hogokansatsukan

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My understanding is that the limiting factor is the battery, not the LED. The highest continuous load current that the major CR123 vendors provide data for is 1A, which gets you 700-800mA at the LED by the time you are done with driver efficiency and any needed voltage step-up (a CR123 can be as low as about 2.5V with a 1A draw). That's right in line with 200 measured lumens out the front of the light.
 

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WarriorOfLight

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I was considering that at first, but the cost would be as much for the flashlight and customs as for all of the stuff i ordered on the site, not counting shipping from HDS as well. I'll wait until i get a reply regarding other coming models there, if there's none coming i'll reconsider just ordering from HDS instead.
It should also clear that the price increase that HDS did and also the currency exchange betwwn USD and EUR will also flow into the price at K&T. I expect there also a price increase.
 

kerneldrop

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My understanding is that the limiting factor is the battery, not the LED. The highest continuous load current that the major CR123 vendors provide data for is 1A, which gets you 700-800mA at the LED by the time you are done with driver efficiency and any needed voltage step-up (a CR123 can be as low as about 2.5V with a 1A draw). That's right in line with 200 measured lumens out the front of the light.

I didn't think about that....
Malkoff tunes to similar output on his CR123 flashlight with the SST20.

Well there we go, now it's settled and fully understood.
 

LRJ88

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It should also clear that the price increase that HDS did and also the currency exchange betwwn USD and EUR will also flow into the price at K&T. I expect there also a price increase.
See there's where there's an interesting thing going on, K&T sells the SDR50 for €339, whereas the flashlight with the same configuration at HDS is $393. Currently from what i can find the value of the USD and Euro is pretty much the same, and with VAT and all that added too i'm surprised that it managed to get to that low, but that also allowed for the inclusion of spare parts etc. while still being under the cost of the light from HDS's website.


If anything this feels like an oversight on K&T's part to not make sure that they don't accept more orders than they can fill, but to make matters worse there's no easy way of just finding a replacement option. While i can say i want a refund i also then ensure that i'll end up spending more money for less, even if it'll likely mean i get the flashlight this year then. Henry time's supposed to be over for now.
 

Duster1671

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I've been running my HDS lights on li-ion exclusively for so long that I hadn't even thought of current capacity of primaries. Excellent point LEDphile!
 

RPC

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I've been running my HDS lights on li-ion exclusively for so long that I hadn't even thought of current capacity of primaries. Excellent point LEDphile!
I’ve become really curious about the trade off between 123 primaries and their li-ion equivalents but haven’t made the li-ion plunge given the seemingly marked reduction in mAh of the li-ion (~700 vs ~1400?).

Can anyone weigh in on the real-world use, maybe runtime specifically, of INR 123 li-ions vs 123A primaries in HDS lights?

*if there’s a better place to ask this question, please boot me that direction
 
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tech25

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For me, it’s not as much about runtime as it is ease of mind. I find it easier to swap batteries and pop the used battery on the charger than to calculate if the CR123 is going to run low during usage. ie. “free runtime”

Now that I’m using an 18500, it’s more fun to use (yes even on high!) and not worry!
 
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