HDS Systems EDC # 20

[emarkd]

Nahh, I bought one of the seal lights and I'm almost certain it was "just" the normal 250. If usdiver got an especially white and clean one, that's great, but I'm pretty sure it was just due to normal binning variances. Its not like every emitter of the same type is exactly the same, that's why HDS hand-tunes each light, and why so many folks here on cpf get so worked up playing the "tint lottery". You win some, you lose some, so when you get a light that you find especially pleasing, you hold onto that thing.

But I could be wrong of course.

 

[knucklegary]

^ Word!! Agreed!!

**The SEAL crest laser etched onto bezel is a very nice touch. Even tho I was US Army, 101AB.. I wouldn't mind owning one!

 

[usdiver]

I can only suspect that the end result was accidental or just lucky but I m as impressed as I am pleased. Wish I could find out. I have some spare bezels I can always switch if needed.

 

[greatscoot]

I will say that I am very pleased with the 219C 4000K. I had the 5000K, but for some reason, it just didn't do it for me.

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

I could be wrong but I thought I read somewhere that HDS intentionally chose them this way.

Nope. Just the emitter variance.

I can only suspect that the end result was accidental or just lucky but I m as impressed as I am pleased. Wish I could find out. I have some spare bezels I can always switch if needed.

Even traveling... I have to check in. What's wrong with me anyway?

usdiver, you just got lucky. They were standard 250's and you won the lottery.

Lot's of variation in bins. It's why we calibrate and adjust output.

It also why HDS lights always seem to appear brighter than other lights. The FL1 Standard only says to "pick 3 representative lights" and doesn't say that has to be random. You can cherry pick the lights you want to test... which means most of the others are not achieving the outputs stated. HDS could claim 400 lumen lights if we cherry picked and didn't calibrate. HUGE variance in the same emitters.

I find the F89HG rosy when compared to the High Noon, but used on it's own, it is extremely nice. It's why I say don't cross the beams.
I really think one needs to use the light as they normally do in order to really know if you are going to like it. One of the things I will do is hold a light in each hand and then alternately click one on and the other off on something like my leather bound book library to compare how they look rather than on a white wall next to each other. You can then see which one makes what colors "pop" or not.

 

[emarkd]

I tried to make some comparison shots of something colorful instead of the whitewall (ok, paper..) photo I shared a bit ago. So here's the same three lights illuminating a scene of random kid's toys dumped in my basement floor. The camera is on a tripod and white balance is locked on daylight, but the lights are being hand-held by me, so the spot and angle may vary from pic to pic. Sorry. I also tossed in a cool white XP-G2 for comparison, mostly to show the difference that high-cri makes. Its not in an HDS though, I don't have that setup. Its a little AAA twisty and is more floody, so try to ignore the beam-shape difference.

Hope this works:

And here's the original images if you'd rather look at them still.

...and finally a link to the imgur album where all this is hosted, just in case cpf does something funky with the formatting here: https://imgur.com/a/FmfJEPk

 

[Modernflame]

Great photos tonight, gents. We should all be well enough equipped to make an informed decision. Based on the description and the hype, I had originally planned to get the R9080, but I've changed my mind after seeing all of the pictures. To that lucky someone out there who is now going to score the one that had my name on it, you're welcome.

 

[INFRNL]

Thanks for the additional photos emarkd

And thanks modern for giving me a tiny bit better chance at getting one.

I'm not exactly liking the r9080 in emarkd pics, but that isn't going to stop me from getting one

 

[moltenmag]

Great comparisons guys. Can someone post a beam shot comparison of the lowest moonlight modes? When I had my 219c 5000k and a 219b 4000k, the 4000k beam had a significantly lower low mode... which in the middle of the night is more crucial to me. Just curious on anyone else’s observations?

 

[glimmer]

I tried to make some comparison shots of something colorful instead of the whitewall...

Thanks for the great comparison shots emarkd! They are informative and fun to study, despite their limitations. Good work!

Just a few thoughts after studying them...

The 219b 4000K is such a nice emitter! I have several lights using it, and it's a favorite. Your pictures just confirm this! I'll probably always regret not grabbing one of the last HDS with this!

I'll be nice and just say the Cree is not my thing. Really not my thing.

The most interesting comparison to me is the 4500K 219c vs. the 5000K 219c. I generally have a strong preference for warmer emitters, so I was surprised at how much I liked the 5000K. In some respects I actually prefer it to the 4500K, which really surprises me. I would be interested to know the actual floor color relative to the photos. Big difference there. Might still go with the 4500K between the 2, but I could be really happy with either.

Might have a much different opinion seeing them in person, blah blah blah.......

 

[INFRNL]

Great comparisons guys. Can someone post a beam shot comparison of the lowest moonlight modes? When I had my 219c 5000k and a 219b 4000k, the 4000k beam had a significantly lower low mode... which in the middle of the night is more crucial to me. Just curious on anyone else’s observations?

my 5000k has a slightly brighter min mode than my 4000k as well. There is a noticeable difference and i am with you. When i am at home and go to bed, I need the lowest output possible, but lately I just use what i have and if it's too brigh; I will cover the lens a bit with my finger, but I really don't like doing that. I do not always take the same light to bed, so it varies and I am slowly getting used to it.

Thanks for the great comparison shots emarkd! They are informative and fun to study, despite their limitations. Good work!

Just a few thoughts after studying them...

The 219b 4000K is such a nice emitter! I have several lights using it, and it's a favorite. Your pictures just confirm this! I'll probably always regret not grabbing one of the last HDS with this!

I'll be nice and just say the Cree is not my thing. Really not my thing.

The most interesting comparison to me is the 4500K 219c vs. the 5000K 219c. I generally have a strong preference for warmer emitters, so I was surprised at how much I liked the 5000K. In some respects I actually prefer it to the 4500K, which really surprises me. I would be interested to know the actual floor color relative to the photos. Big difference there. Might still go with the 4500K between the 2, but I could be really happy with either.

Might have a much different opinion seeing them in person, blah blah blah.......

I was kind of thinking the same thing.
I have a 4000k 219c of a different brand, but I'll be curious how the HDS 4000K 219c compares to my 4000k 219b and my 5000k 219c.

I was also wondering what the actual color of the wood floor was. We can have our preference going off the pics, but that may not be what reality is.

The 4500k seems to make the reds pop a little more. 4000k was my favorite but I really like the 5000k as well. It really depends on time of day and particular task for me to have a preference on color temp. I used to be set on just 4000k but as i have mentioned before; certain lights work better for certain tasks and time of day along with ambient light.

4000k 219b is great but it does not always render accurate colors, but i still love the tint

 

[usdiver]

The photos are a big help. I now see I like the r9080 but high noon is still my favorite.
Hogo:
“I really think one needs to use the light as they normally do in order to really know if you are going to like it. One of the things I will do is hold a light in each hand and then alternately click one on and the other off on something like my leather bound book library to compare how they look rather than on a white wall next to each other. You can then see which one makes what colors "pop" or not” this is what I do to determine which I prefer

 

[tech25]

Lot's of variation in bins. It's why we calibrate and adjust output.

It also why HDS lights always seem to appear brighter than other lights. The FL1 Standard only says to "pick 3 representative lights" and doesn't say that has to be random. You can cherry pick the lights you want to test... which means most of the others are not achieving the outputs stated. HDS could claim 400 lumen lights if we cherry picked and didn't calibrate. HUGE variance in the same emitters.

So the runtime between two emitters could be drastically different as well... Just curious, how much of a difference in runtime would there be?

 

[jon_slider]

I made a comparison shot too. Not sure if its helpful or just causes more confusion, but here it goes:

From the top down:
* 219c 5000k on top (the 3'oclock high emitter, although not in an HDS in this case)
* 219b sw45k r9080, the HG emitter in discussion
* 219b 4000k, the recently-discontinued HCri200 option

So for me, I see the 219c 5000k as slightly greenish, the sw45k is slightly pinkish, and the Hcri200 is slightly tannish. But this is basically a "whitewall" shot and doesn't nearly tell the whole tale. Without the comparisons right next to them, I find all three emitters very clean and nice to look at, and when you point these emitters at something very colorful, especially something with lots of red tones, that's when the sw45k really shows what it can do. I'd never try and discourage anyone from trying the sw45k, its a special emitter, but I'd also not want anyone to think its sunlight-in-a-can, cause it isn't. It does its own thing, just like all the others. But the thing it does is very very good.

re above
Those are absolutely excellent beam comparisons, and I agree with all your comments and observations

---------

I tried to make some comparison shots of something colorful instead of the whitewall (ok, paper..) photo I shared a bit ago. So here's the same three lights illuminating a scene of random kid's toys dumped in my basement floor. The camera is on a tripod and white balance is locked on daylight, but the lights are being hand-held by me, so the spot and angle may vary from pic to pic. Sorry. I also tossed in a cool white XP-G2 for comparison, mostly to show the difference that high-cri makes. Its not in an HDS though, I don't have that setup. Its a little AAA twisty and is more floody, so try to ignore the beam-shape difference.

Hope this works:

And here's the original images if you'd rather look at them still.

...and finally a link to the imgur album where all this is hosted, just in case cpf does something funky with the formatting here: https://imgur.com/a/FmfJEPk

re above
these images will create confusion because the white balance of a persons brain changes in different environments.. to make those pics as relevant as possible, would require setting the white balance of the camera, to match the Color Temperature of the individual lights.

the way the white balance was chosen for those photos, will always make the light with the CCT closest to the White Balance setting, look the most natural, white.

It is very difficult to explain how important the effect of the Brains White Balance at the time of flashlight use, can be. Here is a snapshot. Try any one light during the day, and try it again when you wake in the middle of the night. I think you will find that during the Day, cooler Color Temperatures look "right", but when the brain is fully dark adapted, it likes warmer Color Temperatures.

fwiw, I have been carrying a 4500k 9080 N219b, and although it is excessively pink in certain situations, it works very well when my brain is adapted to daylight. otoh, I find my 4000k 9080 219b slightly yellow, during the day. But the 4000k is more pleasant after my brain is adapted to the incandescent lights in my house.

I change lights based on the ambient white balance.. I like having a range of choices, 3000k, 4000k, 4500k..

just my opinions.. applause for your excellent photos
Happy 4th
Jonathan

 

[JKolmo]

Wowser, the R9080 seems to be a true Rose Queen. Now to decide whether to get the F89RQ or the High Noon. Decisions decisions...

 

[F89]

Wowser, the R9080 seems to be a true Rose Queen. Now to decide whether to get the F89RQ or the High Noon. Decisions decisions...

I try to stay away from the in depth tint and so on talk these days, particularly with reference photos.
Here's the thing, yes the sw45k has a bit of magenta in the tint but I for one don't notice it without comparison as much as I do with the blues and greens of the 219C sm573 for example.
The R9080 LEDs (219B sw45k F89HG for example) simply blow away the R9050 LEDs (219C for example). Tint aside the F89HG is simply the highest CRI HDS ever produced and bringing tint into it, yes it's a very nice clean tint.
If you're a high CRI and neutral tint hound the F89HG is the one.
I banged on about this LED for ages hence the F89HG thing but yeah it's a nice LED.
Hogo has really lifted the game here bringing all these flavoured LEDs so it's hard to go wrong whichever way you turn.

 

[RCS1300]

Emarkd, thank you for the posts in #1826 of the different LED emitters. My focus was on the wood floor primarily. I was considering the Nichia 219b R9080 until the hotspot of the beam washed out the wooden floor compared to the Nichia 219b R9050. For my purposes, I may already have the best emitter for my needs. In addition, to my eyes, the 219C versions in all varieties tended to turn the wooden floors slightly yellow.

I may still purchase the R9080 but now will not sell my Nichia R9050 219b 4000's.

 

[lion504]

The R9080 LEDs (219B sw45k F89HG for example) simply blow away the R9050 LEDs (219C for example).

Was the (now discontinued) 4000k 219B Hi CRI a 9080 or 9050?

 

[F89]

Emarkd, thank you for the posts in #1826 of the different LED emitters. My focus was on the wood floor primarily. I was considering the Nichia 219b R9080 until the hotspot of the beam washed out the wooden floor compared to the Nichia 219b R9050. For my purposes, I may already have the best emitter for my needs. In addition, to my eyes, the 219C versions in all varieties tended to turn the wooden floors slightly yellow.

I think people are going to go off track here by judging photos and so on (not trying to take anything away from emarkd as he's done a decent job in an attempt to be helpful).
The R9080 makes colours pop like no other and renders better than anything I've tried. Wood for example looks great with it.
All the R9050 LEDs look washed out and anemic in comparison.
The standard 4000K 200 219B isn't a patch on the R9080 when it comes to CRI and so on.
It's like Hogo said about actually using these LEDs, only then you'll see what they're really like.

 

[F89]

Was the (now discontinued) 4000k 219B Hi CRI a 9080 or 9050?

It's an earlier model 219B with a tan type tint, little to no pink. It's a nice LED but not R9080.