Help deciding on caving headlamp.......

[Unforgiven]

I need some input on a good headlamp, must be bright with a long runtime and most important >RELIABLE<.......reasonably priced is always good too.

Thanks

 

[papasan]

there seems to be alot of smaller companies making lights these days...or perhaps i'm just begining to notice them. especially european companies and LED headlights.

a friend of mine uses a petzl duo with a 5 LED replacement for the low-beam light. it's nice: uses 4 AAs, waterproof to 50 feet or more, the hi-beam is good for spotting things further away (though its output isn't great) and the LEDs go for 17 hours at a good light level (or so the box says). it's a little costly for me at $100+ for the light and LED module.

i'm making my own headlamp with 17 LEDs run off of 4AAs with a dimmer control. i've also got a couple of 2 AA headlamps with a step-up circuit and luxeon LED.

 

[cave dave]

Well its hard to get bright and a long runtime unless you go to a waist mount battery pack. Which I personally don't care for.
Currently an inexpensive light I'm recommending is the Black Diamond Lunar 3AA for around $25. http://www.bdel.com/backcountry/headlamps_lunar.html
Or the Princeton Tec Solo 2AA for around $20 (on sale at campmor). For caving you really want 2 headlamps (one backup, best if they are the same kind for interchangability) plus a 3rd backup that can also be mounted on the helmet. (I recommend the Opalec Minimag conversion and Duct Tape)

The Black Diamond has a really nice smooth focusable wide beam and a choice of 3 different bulbs (Low and Med come with it) so you can customize the light output. You can also go with the Gemini which also includes a LED, but its pretty dim, and the switching is complicated. You always seem to have to turn the other bulb on and off before you get what you want. I think you might be better off with an infinity or Arc AAA as a backup in the LED department.

I own a Duo and frankly don't care for it, but I still use it most time because it has a very long burn time. You use the low beam most then switch to the high beam when needed. I can easily get 6 hrs on NiMh with this setup. Problem with it include the bezel gets stuck so you can't change the bulbs and it doesn't tilt up, only down, which sucks for crawling in cave.

I haven't tried the 5 LED mod, but so far I am not impressed with multiple LED caving lights. They are expensive and brightness drops off quickly. The LS with regulator looks like a promising future.

I just bought a BD Supernova, so far I'm not terribly impressed <B>(edit- becomming more impressed see below)</B>. The non potted regulator is in the non-waterproof battery compartment, so reliability could become an issue if it gets wet. The led has a very lopsided beam because it is in the 9:00 position when it should have been in the 12:00. The light does have 3 brightness levels (pulse width modulated) but running a bulb below its optimum voltage makes the light very yellow, it is inefficient and it could blacken the bulb prematurely. Plus you could buy 3 Lunar headlamps for the price of this thing.

I am sort of a gadget-aholic so I've tried lot of things, but for caving you want something that is reliable and easy to fix. When you start getting into the fancier lights you can get circuit failures, switch failures, cord failures etc. The Princeton Tec lights are the simple and durable, no switch, no circuit, no wires. Plus they use common PR bulbs which you can get anywhere. I have had a battery cover snap break, but the light still worked with some duct tape and they have beefed up the design some since. Plus they are waterproof.

Damn, I think I just convinced myself to return the Supernova. <B>(edit- maybe not, the more I play with it the more i like it)</B>

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have this one and like it alot. It has a beam focusable to an extremely narrow spot. The battery pack in an ingenious cylinder arragement, and I think it's waterproof ;
http://www.caves.org/imo/ --
  "... 17-4001 Easter Seal "Headlite III" $55.00

A Willie Hunt LVR3 microprocessor controls the light output, holding the brightness steady for the life of the batteries. A touch of the push-button micro-switch soft-starts the xenon-halogen bulb and cycles through 4 brightness levels. Provides 8 hours of light on highest setting, longer on lower settings. When batteries are exhausted, the lamp flickers to let you know you have 20 minutes to find new ones. New battery pack holds 5 AA cells (not included). Segmented cord allows use of a larger waist battery pack (coming soon)...."

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The TAG-Lite I rechargeable system might be a good choice if you cave frequently. They are very popular amongst serious cavers. It uses a belt-mounted 7AH lead-acid battery and a sturdy headpiece that takes standard PR bulbs. Depending on bulb choice, you can have anything from 4 hrs. of REALLY bright light (1.5A Halogen) to 24 hrs.+ of lower-intensity (200mA bulb or a PR-base LED array). The batteries have a very flat discharge curve and much more consistent lifetime (IMHO) than NiMH. They are not cheap to buy ($120), but they are cheap to use (rechargeable, cheap bulbs). I do not recommend the C-battery version or the TAGLite II (which has two bulbs and looks cool, but doesn't have nearly the beam quality of the original.) IMO

 

[Lux Luthor]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papasan:
...i'm making my own headlamp with 17 LEDs run off of 4AAs with a dimmer control. i've also got a couple of 2 AA headlamps with a step-up circuit and luxeon LED.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm just curious. What kind of dimmer are you planning on using? A simple pot? This is what I had in mind, for lack of anything else.

With regard to the thread topic, I don't cave, so I'm not sure about the requirements for that, but I've been through some headlamps, and have spent the majority of my time on headlamp mods.

I have (had) the BD Lunar. I really just bought it for its 3 AA battery pack to retrofit my Moonlight, but I did use it several times before butchering it. It does have a nice beam quality and is reasonably bright, comfortable, and solid. I've used the Aurora for lower level illumination, and even though it's a popular light, I took it back to the store. For me, it feels more like a toy than a solid piece of equipment. I have a number of complaints about it which I won't go into here.

My LS headlamp mods have all failed. Unless you like moving your head excessively to see something, the beams are simply too narrow. I've even stuck them in reflectors without the optics, and they have broader beams, but really aren't being run very efficiently and aren't bright enough that way.

 

[papasan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lux Luthor:
I'm just curious. What kind of dimmer are you planning on using? A simple pot? This is what I had in mind, for lack of anything else.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

check out the electronics forum, i'm trying to work this out now. definatly not just a straight pot, way too inefficient. i was looking at linear regulators because of their super simple layout but i think that mr.al has convinced me to go with a buck regulator for increased efficiencey. the best IC suited to my purpose i've seen so far states a 96% efficiencey.

i found the white LSes to be a bit too narrow as well, but the amber one i tried was better. and in a 0 light situation your eyes adapt pretty well and there actually is more light spill then is otherwise apparent.

dave, i haven't noticed any of the problems you mention with the duo in my very limited experience with it. and my friend hasn't mentioned anything like you talk about. maybe you just got a lemon? the bezel on his seems to point straight out when all the way up and he's removed the head many times without problems that i know of. it is a sort of odd set-up and takes some getting used to, but the waterproofness is worth it imho. and i really like the idea of having a hi and low beam in one package yet seperate bulbs. and the led module does have some sort of IC controllers on it (1 per led) but i'm not sure what they do.

 

[cave dave]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by papasan:
dave, i haven't noticed any of the problems you mention with the duo in my very limited experience with it. and my friend hasn't mentioned anything like you talk about. maybe you just got a lemon? the bezel on his seems to point straight out when all the way up and he's removed the head many times without problems that i know of. it is a sort of odd set-up and takes some getting used to, but the waterproofness is worth it imho. and i really like the idea of having a hi and low beam in one package yet seperate bulbs. and the led module does have some sort of IC controllers on it (1 per led) but i'm not sure what they do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most people with the Duo don't seem to notice that it won't point up. You are right it points straight out. Which is fine for walking, But when you are crawling it points strait at the ground in front of you when you really need it to point down the passage.

The hard to remove tractor tread bezel is a well known problem. The trick is to keep it well lubed, clean it occassionally and don't tighten it down to far.
Also the beam quality is terrible.

All in all I still use the Duo the most because of it dual beam design.

PS I think the small chips on the LED module are resistors.

 

[cave dave]

I edited the comments on the BD Supernova. I think one of the 1300 mAh Nimh I used for the first test was bad.

When I ran the test the second time with 1600mah Nimh. It preformed much better. I got consistant light for 3.3 hrs before the warning flicker came on.

I will post a seperate review when I get more experience with this light.

 

[Unforgiven]

Thank everyone for their input. I will use the information to compare lights and make an informed decision.

I had a Petzl Mega, which I really liked even though it was a bit bulky, But I have moved since and cannot find it

. Thank again to all for the advise and suggestions.

 

[cave dave]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cave dave:
[QB]
When I ran the test the second time with 1600mah Nimh charged 20 days ago. It preformed much better. I got consistant light for 3.3 hrs before the warning flicker came on.
[QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ran a third test with Freshly charged batteries. Got 4hrs of runtime. Not bad considering the packaging says three hours on alkalines.

The mega used C batteries right. If you are willing to go with a belt pack then the BD Spaceshot is pretty nice. Customize with 3 different bulb choices.

Bulb Type Burn time
Long Life 9 hrs
Bright 4 hrs
Superbright 2.5 hrs

 

[Unforgiven]

Until I can find my mega (which is the older style battery box mounted to head band).
I will probably go with the BD Lunar. They say LL bulb is 7 hours, Bright is 3.5 hours and SB is 2.5.
The Lunar runs on half the batteries 3aa as opposed to six. Hopefully they are not exaggerating on the times. If they are not it will be the most economical light to run. The times on the Lunar do seem A little hard to believe, but maybe the spaceshot has something built in that uses more current.
Here is the comparison chart at the BD website. http://www.bdel.com/compare/headlamps.html

 

[cave dave]

Well, the spaceshot is regulated. So the regulator will use up some energy also as the voltage drops the current increases to maintain brightness, so battery life will be less, but Brightness the same the whole time. The Lunar on the other hand will get dimmer, but as it gets dimmer it draws less current so lasts longer. Make sense?

I think the battery claims are comparing apples and oranges. For the spaceshot 9hrs will be when the regulator stops working (when batterries have reached 4.5v/6 = 0.75 v each) The Lunar will get dimmer and dimmer the whole time, like a traditional light.

I think you'll like the BD's as they have the nicest reflectors on the market as far as headlamps are concerned. I'm not sure if the Long life bulb will be bright enough for caving though.

IMHO: regulation may not be that much of an issue for caving because even though the light dims your eyes are slowly becoming more adapted to the dark enviornment. In my experience you don't even notice your light is dying till the last 1/2 hr or so.

This assumes you are enter the cave in daylight and it takes a while for your eyes to dark adapt.

 

[Unforgiven]

The LL bulb was a concern of mine too, but I compared my old mega bulbs (standard and halo) from memory anyway and the rating of BD LL is more than twice that of petzl standard and only about 30% less than the halo. I do agree as your eyes adjust initial brightness is of little concern. I know that Petzl and BD probably rate their bulbs differently but I feel resonably confident that I will be satisfied.
I have been interested in caving for a long time but only went into a few "public" caves with a friend of mine. Needless to say they were pretty much defaced.
I recently heard of a grotto in my area and are now in the process of initiation. (Going on trips with members and hopfully being voted in a full member).
If you don't mind me asking..... How long have you been caving? You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject.

 

[cave dave]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Unforgiven:
...
If you don't mind me asking..... How long have you been caving? You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know about knowledgeable, more like opinionated. I've only been caving for about three years, but I've managed to collect a lot of gear in that time (mostly lights of various kinds). I have also seen what works and what doesn't work for other people.

I'm still searching for the perfect caving light. Bright, long lasting, reliable, light weight, smooth beam and cheap to operate.

 

[Unforgiven]

Well I found my Mega last night, and the Lunar came today. I'll let you know what I think of the lunar. Like most other headlamps it does not point up either (I have been able to overcome some of that downfall by positioning the lamp higher on the front of the helmet). As far as brightness, I believe it will be more than adequate. The spare bulb is brighter about 43% but uses about twice the power. I will use it the next time I go caving, and give a more informed review.

(I may have to get the space shot just to see how it works.....For a backup of course

)

 

[papasan]

do tell...still in seach of a good shell to convert to an led headlamp. this one i'm making now is going into a rayovac sportsmans headlamp which seams fairly water resistant but very cheaply made. and a b!tch to change the batteries.

the easter seal waterproof headlamp looks good, especially for $30, but i'm not crazy about the head strap. does this one have a rocker switch on-off like the non-waterproof ones do?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

pappa, it's got a rubber covered push button. push and hold for 2 seconds, as the light comes on, push without a hold to sequence through intensities, push and hold for off...comes back on at last intensity it was used at, unless you disconnect the battery, in which case when you reconnect it automatically comes on at it's brightest level.
..one drawback; the clear bezel of the lamp conducts light into your face, wrap the edge with tape, and it's good to go...

 

[papasan]

this is the 3 with willie's lvr, yeah? how does the 2 turn on/off?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

yup, the "3" -- here's the copy right out of the IMO online catalog;
 "... 17-4001 Easter Seal "Headlite III" $55.00
It looks the same, but it's vastly improved!
A Willie Hunt LVR3 microprocessor controls the light output, holding the brightness steady for the life of the batteries..."
I don't know about the "2"..