Help me spot fake Panasonic CR123A...or not

[RobertMM]

I have the suspicious Panasonic cell I was talking about here with me with a store bought cell, I have no doubt it is fake. It looks exactly like the pic in the original post. I even managed to get hold of a few U.S. ARMY issue Panasonic cells(black wrapper, small silver blister packs), they have the green ring and apart from the label/wrap they have the same top hutton, insulators and green ring as the store bought cell. The suspicious cell is clearly inferior in quality compared to these two.

 

[Lithium466]

Thank you for the intel.

I think I am going to do some discharge test with my suspicious cells. I was a bit reluctant but I've tried one in a light, and I am under the impression its voltage declined fast compared to a Battery station one.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, can you post a picture of the Army issue cells?

 

[Lithium466]

You're lucky
I have some "WF" from around 2002-2003, around 3,02V. None have leaked, but I think I'm going to recycle them...

 

[RobertMM]

Thank you for the intel.

I think I am going to do some discharge test with my suspicious cells. I was a bit reluctant but I've tried one in a light, and I am under the impression its voltage declined fast compared to a Battery station one.

Just to satisfy my curiosity, can you post a picture of the Army issue cells?

They are like these, only individually wrapped in foil backed blister packs:
http://www.batteryjunction.com/1pcencr3voph.html

Hey WF brand, I once bought two pairs to use in a SF G2 incan, one shrink wrapped pair was fine at 3.15 volts each but the other pair was grossly mismatched, 3.18V and 3.03V IIRC. I hate to think what might have happened if I discharged them in the G2 without testing with my DMM.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

I would bet that if the shop prides itself in selling high quality goods, they would be happy to be informed that one of THEIR suppliers is supplying them with counterfeits. We are flashaholics, and by nature of the hobby, battery nerds. The shopkeep probably doesn't have the time to know everything about every item he sells, and while it is bad news, it's free research, and an answer straight from the manufacturer would be the nail in the coffin or the icing on the cake.

Fakes are all around us, I've heard rumblings recently of fake AMC7135 voltage regulator chips, those 350mA linear LDO regulators that budget lights commonly use. Being a trustworthy supplier in this day and age will gain value as counterfeits become even more common for such low-priced items.

 

[RobertMM]

Yup reputable owners would probably even thank you for the info and compensate in some way, after all he sold fakes for the price of authentic cells, even unknowingly.
As for the fake cells, any idea how they perform, capacity, discharge characteristics,safety,etc.? Just curious. The WF branded cells I used in my G2 were somewhat disappointing. An HKJ like review would be probably impractical but fun to read and compare with the good stuff.
The idea of fake drivers makes me shudder.

 

[Lithium466]

Ok Guys, please tell me I'm wrong, but I did a discharge test, and these batteries are screaming "FAKE" !!!



888mAh under 0,5A load, discharge stopped at 1,6V (practical end working voltage of some CR123A lights I have). Internal resistance is measured between 224 and 265 mOhms. Ambiant temperature was 20,1°, max temp of the cell was 26,6°, rising at the end of the discharge (I was starting to worry, since the charger is configured to stop at 28°). Initial voltage of the cell was 3,26V.

I did a comparison with a Panasonic Industrial cell (authentic I think) I had, capacity was 1230mAh, and internal resistance between 170 and 210 mOhms. You can compare this with HKJ review here : http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Panasonic Lithium Industrial CR123A UK.html

he found a higher capacity, but also stopped the discharge under 1V.

I sent a mail to the store, with the above elements, now waiting for an answer.

PS: and yes, I know, I discharged just one cell. But I suspect I can discharge as many cell I want and get similar results. I used an Hyperion EOS720i charger to discharge, I hope it can be considered as somewhat reliable.

 

[Lithium466]

Wow, that was fast, I got an answer (did I say "top notch" ?) from the store.

The owner is surprised but he said he don't have enough elements to answer me, since he bought the battery stock to the previous owner. He told me we he will get in touch with this previous owner, to see if he can get further information regarding the "problem".
He also said the stock may be old (very old), and that the batteries may be from an older type, which doesn't exist anymore. In the meantime, he also told me he removed the batteries from the site, awaiting further information.

 

[snakebite]

FAKE!
btw mine have the green ring and were wrapped like a piece of candy.
they were for oem use and i bought them in bulk at a hamfest.for 7 year old batteries they performed identical to some new energizers.

 

[Lithium466]

The green ring seems to be the key...

 

[RobertMM]

888mAh, that sucks. I had experience doing tests with 2018 expiry Surefire cells, that makes them 6yrs old, they achieved runtime claims by the light manufacturer so I was happy.
I look for the green ring always, as it is there on SF, Sanyo and Panasonic cells. Not sure about other brands though, but those are the brands I buy.

 

[Lithium466]

There's no ring on the Nitecore primary, but these are "high quality" made in China, and I somewhat trust them.
Nextorch and WF didn't have the ring, made in China too. I don't think Trustfire primary have that sort of ring either.

All my "authentic" Panasonic (various forms, made in USA/Indonesia/Japan) have the ring, so does my Surefire, Duracell, Energizer and Battery Station.

I hope to get an answer quickly from the seller, don't know if the previous owner will be honest enough to tell the truth. I don't care about the money, I'd like to know the truth

 

[Lithium466]

I got further information today. The previous owner of the store bought them to his usual Chinese supplier. Actual owner made them disappear from his store. 99% fake ?

 

[Lithium466]

End of the story, I just had the confirmation from Panasonic, they are fake. I guess that was to be expected

 

[ChrisGarrett]

End of the story, I just had the confirmation from Panasonic, they are fake. I guess that was to be expected

Live and learn.

Buy from reputable dealers, or the super markets.

Chris

 

[Lithium466]

It was a very reputable vendor, who reacted quickly and like it should have

 

[RobertMM]

Did you test the WF brand for capacity? I always thought this was one of the "suspect" brands, like GreatPower, Tianqui, etc.

 

[Lithium466]

Unfortunately, no, and I don't have them anymore...