Help with a dive torch

Wurkkos

deepbluediver

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Hi all,

I recently bought a second hand underwater kinetics uk600r off the net and was really eager to recieve it. I was thinking, great:thumbsup: a nice wide beam to see underwater with. As soon as it came i put the batteries in and turned her on. The results were extremely dissapointing. I tried it against a uk c8 light which was nearly three times as bright was a beam amost double the width despite being half the size. I noticed that there is a bit of paint flaking at the base of the reflector near the bulb. How much would this affect it? Also It runs on a 6v rechargeable 4 ampere hours (whatever that means!) lantern battery. Now i'm new to this buisness of modding torches and i want to get it as bright as i possibly can. The only problem is i have a small budget and not very much knowledge in this field. Would it be possible to upgrade it to led or stick with halogen. Can somebody please help me as i dont want to waste all the money i have just spent on this torch :(

Cheers,
deepblue
 
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Darker View

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I can not answer any specific questions on the 600, I do not have one. I can clear up the bit about ampere-hours. Ah are a measure of how much current is available from the battery and for how long. In theory it works like this... If the lamp takes one amp, it will run for four hours with that battery. If it takes 500mA (1/2A) it would run for eight hours. In practice it is a bit more complicated, but that will work for a first explanation.
 

Klem

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Plastic housings limit the amount of heat you can generate which translates into less light possible, however you can still build something that will outshine what you currently have. Plastic acts as an insulator to the perfect heat-sink that is the surrounding water. You could design a thermal path from inside to outside using a metal object poking through the body and waterproofed (e.g. one or more bolts connected directly to the emitter).

If you don't want to get too involved and happy to forgo squeezing the maximmum amount of light available from that housing you could buy an off-the-shelf emitter in the 6V range and with some cutting, gluing, soldering, affix it to the inside. Depending on how hot it gets you might need to fortify the existing head-sink of the emitter to avoid damaging the LED's or the battery.
 

Packhorse

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Hate to put some one off DIYing but you are probably far better off throwing it away and getting a much smaller and brighter light.
 

deepbluediver

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Hi all,

Thanks for replying so quickly, also thanks 'darker view' for clearing that up and 'packhorse' i cant afford to do that. Also i dont really want to go drilling holes in my torch as i dont feel confident in my waterproofing skills. My question is though how hard would it be to upgrade it to LED and how would i go about that and if i can't do that what is the brightest halogen i can put in there? All i know about the current halogen thats in there at the moment is that its a bi pin socket and the lantern battery is a pj996 6v. What can i do to get it nice and bright without drilling holes in the body

Any help would be much appreciated,
James
 

DIWdiver

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I usually agree with Packhorse, and this is no exception. With very few exceptions, DIY is mutually exclusive with "save money". By the time you buy lamp and socket (or worse yet, emitter, driver, heatsink), reflector, glue, wire, a tool or two, you're going to end up with a disappointing light that cost more than a good one. If you're not into it for the joy of building, learning, and growing, you're just going to be disappointed.
 

Packhorse

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OK then if you must.

I recommend you dont use to high a power LED. Something like a XPG should be OK. Use a heat sink with lots of surface area.
You have the opportunity to use quite a wide reflector but I am guessing you will not have much depth.
A wide deep reflector will give you a nice tight beam. A smaller reflector will give you a wider flood beam.
Beam choice is personal preference. I prefer a tight beam. Especially when using a "low power" LED which will not really supply a huge amount of lumen.

A XPG P60 drop in from DX would be a good start. But its small form in behind such a large lens will make for a big light with average output.
 

lucca brassi

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cooling_led_through_plastic_enclosure1.png
 
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350xfire

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There are many lights out there for less than $100 (Even $70) that are better than anything you will end up with out of the UK DYI... Just a thought.
 

deepbluediver

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Hi Guys,

Thanks again for replying, also thanks to lucca brassi for that diagram. I have a sample XPG from cree components on its way. Looks like i am going to have to have a shot at modifying the torch. It Shouldn't cost to much if the answers to these questions are what i want to hear. Would a piece of bright mild or mild steel or aluminium work for the actual heatsink?
And would araldite be ok to use as a water sealant ( my only worry is would it start to break down with the heat from the led?)

I also heard that led's need a resistor, now do i need a resistor for it or would there be one on the sample led coming? Also what is the driver? is it the pcb? And what battery would i need? ( i need to get a new one whatever happens because the other one died last night :sigh:)

And this may be asking too much but has anyone got any spare thermal paste they would be willing to donate?:broke:

I am also going to need some help on the reflector aswell. Would the current one suffice? ( i can upload a photo of it if need be)

Sorry for all the questions,
James
 

350xfire

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Driver and LED will cost you about $20... All that hacking will probably get you a flooded light... In the end, I think you know where I'm headed... Just sayin'
 

deepbluediver

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Driver and LED will cost you about $20... All that hacking will probably get you a flooded light... In the end, I think you know where I'm headed... Just sayin'

Yeah thats what i was thinking but i got conned out of 40 quid so you know i'm just trying to see if i can salvage it :L
 

Packhorse

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Hi guys,

Also how hot would the xp-g get?

Cheers,
James

It shouldnt get hot at all. Thats the whole idea of using a heat sink.
But if the heat sink cant transfer that heat to the water then it will just slowly heat up and cook the LED.
In reality it will dissipate heat to the air inside the torch and that will dissipate heat to the plastic body and out to the water. This is a very inefficient method but given a large enough surface area heat sink a single XPG should be OK.

I guess we shouldnt mention any thing about throwing good money after bad.
 

Klem

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The guaranteed quick-fix solution in your shoes would be to dump that torch and buy an off-the-shelf brighter one. However...I would counsel to get over the dollars spent on that original housing.

Having a go turning it into a brigher LED torch... DIW is right, if you add up the cost of components and put a price on your time it is cheaper to ditch and buy. 350 and Packhorse are also right; that housing without cutting a thermal path through to the surrounding water will never permit an output that this forum would agree is impressive. Lucca's idea of having a disk of aluminium fixed to the inside by say 4 bolts solves two problems; thermal path and how to affix the disk in the right spot. You would need to consider how to recharge those batteries behind the disk and your o-ring system would have to be pretty good to prevent water seeping in if you plan to constantly unscrew those bolts to recharge. Four potential new points of ingress increases the probability that flooding will occur.

You could permanently fix that disk in place, and If deciding this I would use something that cures flexible, like 'Sikaflex' marine polyeurathane. Araldite would also work but it cures hard and brittle and I imagine the glue will eventually crack with all the expansion and contraction, and banging around of multiple dives. Remember, that housing is plastic and it will contract, expand and flex to a greater extent than metal. Even submarines made of titanium have only half the usable life of a surface ships for that reason. On the inside have a plug that runs past the disk to the front so you can plug it in to recharge.

Point is...you'll get satisfaction and learn a new skill if you try an fix it. Put a price on that and compare it against the difference between DIY, and 'ditch and buy'. Up to you.
 
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lucca brassi

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You would need to consider how to recharge those batteries behind the disk and your o-ring system would have to be pretty good to prevent water seeping in if you plan to constantly unscrew those bolts to recharge
.

+1 agree , for recharging you could use wet contacts , but you need space inside

Araldite would also work but it cures hard and brittle and I imagine will eventually crack with all the expansion and contraction, and banging around of multiple dives.

+1

after all that could become at end more costly than light ...
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Sketch that I have drew ,presented what I would do with little Halcyon 10w HID primary light using original POM housing
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Common problem with thin plastic is that after producing when are all openings designed by mould is enclosure very strong.
If yo made holes on non reinforced place you could break down force structure that work on enclosure ....result is destroyed or leaking housing.
 
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deepbluediver

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Hi guys,

Thanks for all that info, This is going to be harder than i thought for another reason. Looking at where everything fits in the torch i don't think i would be able to put the bolts in there. So i think thats the heatsink idea gone down the pan.

So i have two options:

Can i get away with putting the LED in and using the air and body for the heatsink?

Or am i just going to have to just replace the halogen thats in there?

Cheers,

James
 

Packhorse

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Can i get away with putting the LED in and using the air and body for the heatsink?

Yes. Should last you up to 5 seconds.
Mind you if you use a P60 drop in you may get up to a few minutes.

If you want something that will last a full dive you need to get a decent heat sink.
 

deepbluediver

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Yes. Should last you up to 5 seconds.
Mind you if you use a P60 drop in you may get up to a few minutes.

If you want something that will last a full dive you need to get a decent heat sink.


So can i put a heatsink onto the led and have it dissapate heat into the air in the torch because that is really the only option:confused:
 
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