Hey Aragorn... check this out
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DonL
Enlightened
YC, that's a great comparison photo.
Could you please tell us more about the swap/conversion? Dumb question, but what light is that? I'm not recognizing it. Also, I can make out that the batteries are NiMH, but what size are they? I've got this spare P61 in the closet...
BTW, is that a bottle of margarita mix on the far left?
Could you please tell us more about the swap/conversion? Dumb question, but what light is that? I'm not recognizing it. Also, I can make out that the batteries are NiMH, but what size are they? I've got this spare P61 in the closet...
BTW, is that a bottle of margarita mix on the far left?
Xenon
Enlightened
The photo shows '650 mHa', that's for AAA batteries.
DonL, thats a Energizer Double Barrel.
DonL, thats a Energizer Double Barrel.
Yes i guess that is a AAA light now that i have looked at the pics better.... Whoa! Ive got one of these AAA sitting right here already wired in series... now to get a p61! I wonder what the run time is Lemlux/ you human battery calculator you!! Where are you!!!
Mike:
A P61 in a DB 4AAA is drawing on a battery with maximum capacity of only 700 mAh (650 in this case) compared to 1200 to 1400 mAh in 123's and the 1800 mAah in AA's. Brock posted something a couple of days ago telling someone who measured the draw of a P61 of 4AAA's that it underdrove the lamp and would shorten its life.
This same string showed that 4AA's almost matched the output of 2 123's, so a DB 4AA conversion is feasible and attractive.
The most I would recommend doing with a DB 4AAA is to put the UKE 4 cell 5.8 Watt bulb in it.
The DB configuration is fairly large and heavy for the number of batteries it holds.
The 4-cell versions are apparently more compact because the tube holes don't provide for battery holders.
I'd clearly go with the DB 4AA (If I could find them) because of the 2 1/2 time greater capacity for marginally larger size.
A P61 in a DB 4AAA is drawing on a battery with maximum capacity of only 700 mAh (650 in this case) compared to 1200 to 1400 mAh in 123's and the 1800 mAah in AA's. Brock posted something a couple of days ago telling someone who measured the draw of a P61 of 4AAA's that it underdrove the lamp and would shorten its life.
This same string showed that 4AA's almost matched the output of 2 123's, so a DB 4AA conversion is feasible and attractive.
The most I would recommend doing with a DB 4AAA is to put the UKE 4 cell 5.8 Watt bulb in it.
The DB configuration is fairly large and heavy for the number of batteries it holds.
The 4-cell versions are apparently more compact because the tube holes don't provide for battery holders.
I'd clearly go with the DB 4AA (If I could find them) because of the 2 1/2 time greater capacity for marginally larger size.
Brock's site (I think half my posts reference this) says that the P61 wants to draw 3.75V and 2.30 amps off of 2 123's.
The thread I read two days ago but can't find shows how 4 AA's feed slightly less voltage and amperage to the P61 and how 4 AAA's feed even less.
With 650 to 700 mAh in an AAA Nimh you'll be lucky to get 15 minutes worth of quality run time that stresses they bulb and you won't make it to 20 minutes without severely stressing the bulb.
The run time of a DB 6AA in a DB 4AA should be almost identical to the run time of a P91 in in a DB 6AA. (P91 uses 3 123's pulling 2.35 Amps or 6 AA's and P61 uses 2 123's pulling 2.30 Amps or 4 AA's.) Aragorn reports that he makes it to 25 minutes before significant dimming.
The P91 is designed as a 14.6 W bulb.
The P61 is designed as a 8.5 W bulb.
As I said earlier, I wouldn't try to drive a 4AAA with any more than the UKE 5.8 W or 6.6 W four cell bulb. If I had a DB 4AAA I would be more inclined to run my OEM .70 amp stock bulb for the DB 8AA in it which should generate about 3 Watts for about 50 minutes. Bushman said he tried this and liked the result.
The problem is that 4 cell .70 amp T 2 1/4 lamps are unobtanium as far as I can tell.
On the other hand, I haven't called Energizer and they may still sell some replacement bulbs. I have looked on their Web site and don't remember finding 4 cell bulbs.
The thread I read two days ago but can't find shows how 4 AA's feed slightly less voltage and amperage to the P61 and how 4 AAA's feed even less.
With 650 to 700 mAh in an AAA Nimh you'll be lucky to get 15 minutes worth of quality run time that stresses they bulb and you won't make it to 20 minutes without severely stressing the bulb.
The run time of a DB 6AA in a DB 4AA should be almost identical to the run time of a P91 in in a DB 6AA. (P91 uses 3 123's pulling 2.35 Amps or 6 AA's and P61 uses 2 123's pulling 2.30 Amps or 4 AA's.) Aragorn reports that he makes it to 25 minutes before significant dimming.
The P91 is designed as a 14.6 W bulb.
The P61 is designed as a 8.5 W bulb.
As I said earlier, I wouldn't try to drive a 4AAA with any more than the UKE 5.8 W or 6.6 W four cell bulb. If I had a DB 4AAA I would be more inclined to run my OEM .70 amp stock bulb for the DB 8AA in it which should generate about 3 Watts for about 50 minutes. Bushman said he tried this and liked the result.
The problem is that 4 cell .70 amp T 2 1/4 lamps are unobtanium as far as I can tell.
On the other hand, I haven't called Energizer and they may still sell some replacement bulbs. I have looked on their Web site and don't remember finding 4 cell bulbs.
yclo
Flashaholic*
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:
The thread I read two days ago but can't find shows how 4 AA's feed slightly less voltage and amperage to the P61 and how 4 AAA's feed even less.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup that thread is
here (second half of the page), and the guy that got told off by Brock is me... But I went ahead and did it because I just wanted to know if it'd fit. And I reckon it would be perfect with a P60 lamp.
More later, got class.
YC
The thread I read two days ago but can't find shows how 4 AA's feed slightly less voltage and amperage to the P61 and how 4 AAA's feed even less.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup that thread is
here (second half of the page), and the guy that got told off by Brock is me... But I went ahead and did it because I just wanted to know if it'd fit. And I reckon it would be perfect with a P60 lamp.
More later, got class.
YC
YCLO:
The P60 lamp runs at 5.3 Watts: Pretty close to what you'd get just by putting in either the UKE 5.8W bulb that would probably voltage reduce down somewhat.
For the same output, I'd be inclined to use a form-fit bulb. On the other hand, I can certainly appreciate your desire for a SF beam.
Since I can get as bright a beam using a more compact PT40 with Nimhs and a 1.2 amp 3.85V KPR lamp as I do with my E2, I remain disinclined to do much with a DB smaller than the DB 4AA. (In other words, I personally would prefer to carry my E2 vs my PT40, and I'd prefer to carry my PT40 vs. a DB 4AAA P60.)But hey -- personal preference is personal preference.
None of this is meant to suggest that your mod isn't interesting and attractive. (After all, I'm going to have Aragorn put a P91 in my DB 6AA.)
I just find the combined size / run time / brightness features of the DB 4AAA package less enticing than the others mentioned.
Enjoy.
The P60 lamp runs at 5.3 Watts: Pretty close to what you'd get just by putting in either the UKE 5.8W bulb that would probably voltage reduce down somewhat.
For the same output, I'd be inclined to use a form-fit bulb. On the other hand, I can certainly appreciate your desire for a SF beam.
Since I can get as bright a beam using a more compact PT40 with Nimhs and a 1.2 amp 3.85V KPR lamp as I do with my E2, I remain disinclined to do much with a DB smaller than the DB 4AA. (In other words, I personally would prefer to carry my E2 vs my PT40, and I'd prefer to carry my PT40 vs. a DB 4AAA P60.)But hey -- personal preference is personal preference.
None of this is meant to suggest that your mod isn't interesting and attractive. (After all, I'm going to have Aragorn put a P91 in my DB 6AA.)
I just find the combined size / run time / brightness features of the DB 4AAA package less enticing than the others mentioned.
Enjoy.
Brock
Flashaholic
No worries yclo. I am just saying I wouldn't run the P61 for a long time on the 4 AAA's. But it would be really impressive to get that much light from such a small package on freshly charge batteries even if it were only for 3 to 5 min
I was thinking, I wonder how the P60 would fit in the UKE Q4, or even 2L for that matter, since I am at work I can't go try it out. Probably no chance of getting the P60 in the PT rage (is that the 4AAA one?)
Hummm.....
I was thinking, I wonder how the P60 would fit in the UKE Q4, or even 2L for that matter, since I am at work I can't go try it out. Probably no chance of getting the P60 in the PT rage (is that the 4AAA one?)
Hummm.....
Lemlux,
on your point of running 8AA bulbs in 4AAA or 4AA - I did exactly that months ago - nice - but even nicer is running the 6AA bulb in the 4AAA or 4AA and the WA 01307 (4.8V, 1.1A) in the 4AA - look at 4AA / 4AAA to 6AA bulb mod
Just for reference - the "old" DB bulb where made by WA and here´s the "chart"
T2-2 Bi-Pin 4/AAA 2.8 0.550 20lu WA 01284
T2-3 Bi-Pin 6/AA 4.2 0.700 54lu WA 01286
T2-4 Bi-Pin 8/AA 5.5 0.700 81lu WA 01288
TX15-2 Bi-Pin new 4/AA/AAA 2.8 0.55 20lu other manufacturer
(these are the ones with the white plastic base - so another post from don´t-know-anymore referrencing the white plastic base as the old good WA bulbs isn´t correct IMO)
WA High-Power bulb - 4.8V 1.1A 104lu WA 01307
Nice data at Welch Allyn - these guys are also doing the Solarc HIDs.
Klaus
on your point of running 8AA bulbs in 4AAA or 4AA - I did exactly that months ago - nice - but even nicer is running the 6AA bulb in the 4AAA or 4AA and the WA 01307 (4.8V, 1.1A) in the 4AA - look at 4AA / 4AAA to 6AA bulb mod
Just for reference - the "old" DB bulb where made by WA and here´s the "chart"
T2-2 Bi-Pin 4/AAA 2.8 0.550 20lu WA 01284
T2-3 Bi-Pin 6/AA 4.2 0.700 54lu WA 01286
T2-4 Bi-Pin 8/AA 5.5 0.700 81lu WA 01288
TX15-2 Bi-Pin new 4/AA/AAA 2.8 0.55 20lu other manufacturer
(these are the ones with the white plastic base - so another post from don´t-know-anymore referrencing the white plastic base as the old good WA bulbs isn´t correct IMO)
WA High-Power bulb - 4.8V 1.1A 104lu WA 01307
Nice data at Welch Allyn - these guys are also doing the Solarc HIDs.
Klaus
yclo
Flashaholic*
And now for more info...
Seeing as I had the idea earlier on, and finally went and purchased a DB 4AAA yesterday. I was rewiring the DB to 6v (please refer to Quickbeam's page on how to).
However, some points that I'd like to point out is that the end cap of the DB (where the negative side goes) has a circular shaped contact with a hole in the middle. This means that if you put the positive contact of a AAA cell to it, the nipple will just go in the middle and no contact can be made. As many people has pointed out, you can use a bit of aluminum foil to provide contact but I put solder on the contact covering the hole in the middle. You can see this in the following photo.
For the bezel side of the DB, the contacts are designed for positive contacts of AAA cells, being the nipples. The photo above shows the bezel (with reflector forcefully removed), the end cap with one side soldered, and two springs. These two springs are the positive contacts for the DB. There is a little black plastic cap that is on the end of the spring which fits over a nipple of an AAA cell, this and the end cap provides some polarity protection. I trimmed the black plastic piece all the way around until contact could be achieved when pushing it against the negative end of an AAA cell.
If you've successfully rewired the light to operate at 6v, then you'd already know that there's a white housing that contains the bulb and the switch.
First I took the P61, and removed the two springs with a soldering iron. Then I placed it in the bezel and attempted to screw it in. Nope, too tall, it's pushing against the white bit where the stock bulb goes in. So we have to carve a hole for it to go deeper. I don't have access to any powertools at all, so I "carved" out the hole with soldering iron, melting the plastic and fitting the P61 at the same time to see if it fits. After getting a big enough hole, I put the P61 in the hole and screwed the bezel back on. It works, however there is a small approx 2.5mm gap between the bezel and the light. Anyway, it screws on, who cares about a gap anyway. On to the next step.
Take your favorite knife, this can be anything from a paper cutter, to fancy folders, to a meat cleaver. And use it to cut and wedge the white switch/bulb assembly apart. Leave the switch alone, and solder wires to the original bulb connector to the P61 contacts. Try to make the length of the wire just right, because it will be a tight fit. Put it back together, and it should look like the above photo. Shove the whole thing back into the DB, note that you can't screw the two screws on the white bit back in because the reflector is in the way. But this doesn't matter since the lens will push on the reflector which will in turn hold the white bit in place anyway. Screw the bezel back on, and vola, light.
YC
Seeing as I had the idea earlier on, and finally went and purchased a DB 4AAA yesterday. I was rewiring the DB to 6v (please refer to Quickbeam's page on how to).
However, some points that I'd like to point out is that the end cap of the DB (where the negative side goes) has a circular shaped contact with a hole in the middle. This means that if you put the positive contact of a AAA cell to it, the nipple will just go in the middle and no contact can be made. As many people has pointed out, you can use a bit of aluminum foil to provide contact but I put solder on the contact covering the hole in the middle. You can see this in the following photo.
For the bezel side of the DB, the contacts are designed for positive contacts of AAA cells, being the nipples. The photo above shows the bezel (with reflector forcefully removed), the end cap with one side soldered, and two springs. These two springs are the positive contacts for the DB. There is a little black plastic cap that is on the end of the spring which fits over a nipple of an AAA cell, this and the end cap provides some polarity protection. I trimmed the black plastic piece all the way around until contact could be achieved when pushing it against the negative end of an AAA cell.
If you've successfully rewired the light to operate at 6v, then you'd already know that there's a white housing that contains the bulb and the switch.
First I took the P61, and removed the two springs with a soldering iron. Then I placed it in the bezel and attempted to screw it in. Nope, too tall, it's pushing against the white bit where the stock bulb goes in. So we have to carve a hole for it to go deeper. I don't have access to any powertools at all, so I "carved" out the hole with soldering iron, melting the plastic and fitting the P61 at the same time to see if it fits. After getting a big enough hole, I put the P61 in the hole and screwed the bezel back on. It works, however there is a small approx 2.5mm gap between the bezel and the light. Anyway, it screws on, who cares about a gap anyway. On to the next step.
Take your favorite knife, this can be anything from a paper cutter, to fancy folders, to a meat cleaver. And use it to cut and wedge the white switch/bulb assembly apart. Leave the switch alone, and solder wires to the original bulb connector to the P61 contacts. Try to make the length of the wire just right, because it will be a tight fit. Put it back together, and it should look like the above photo. Shove the whole thing back into the DB, note that you can't screw the two screws on the white bit back in because the reflector is in the way. But this doesn't matter since the lens will push on the reflector which will in turn hold the white bit in place anyway. Screw the bezel back on, and vola, light.
YC
Klaus:
When I searched WA for t-2 1/4 bulbs I saw the ones you mentioned.
I also noted:
bulb # Wa 01183 rated at 4.70 V 3.85 A 18.1 W and 410.92 Lumens. (Do you think this is the same 18W 4 cell UKE bulb I overpaid for? Those lumens are 150 or so higher than my extrapolated guesstimate.)
bulb # Wa 01148 rated at 6.3V 1.95 A 12.29 W generates 263.89 lumens. Assuming a DB 6AA serial generates 6.6 V the WA table shows 323.59 lumens. Either number is considerably more than the P91 mod.
There are many 2 1/4 bulbs that come up on search. Is there another search parameter you know of that specifies a base parameter that will fit the DB series?
When I searched WA for t-2 1/4 bulbs I saw the ones you mentioned.
I also noted:
bulb # Wa 01183 rated at 4.70 V 3.85 A 18.1 W and 410.92 Lumens. (Do you think this is the same 18W 4 cell UKE bulb I overpaid for? Those lumens are 150 or so higher than my extrapolated guesstimate.)
bulb # Wa 01148 rated at 6.3V 1.95 A 12.29 W generates 263.89 lumens. Assuming a DB 6AA serial generates 6.6 V the WA table shows 323.59 lumens. Either number is considerably more than the P91 mod.
There are many 2 1/4 bulbs that come up on search. Is there another search parameter you know of that specifies a base parameter that will fit the DB series?
Quickbeam
Flashlight Enthusiast
YC - If you want, I can post your pics and description on my site for a little more "permanancy" (wont' have to dig through threads to find it)- Just e-mail me permission to do so.
Thanks!
Thanks!
lemlux,
I re-measured my modified DBs and it looks like the voltage drop using NiMhs is quite high (see also my work with the 12 NiMhs driving a 12V halogen) - the 01307 (4.8V 1,1A) is dropping to around 4,3-4,4V (NiMhs in unkown state - maybe 2 weeks since loaded) or 1.1V per cell - so I would expect if you go to around 1C its more like 1V - so for the 01183 bulb with 4.7V I would use the 8AA and see what happens - don´t expect miracles - I think you might underdrive it to maybe 4-4,2V and around 300 lumens ? Maybe the 01319 is the better choice as it will drop the voltage less and give you almost 200 lu for approx double the time.
The 01148 in a 6AA should be driven almost to spec I would assume - maybe even slightly less - again you are at 1C load (and higher) so with all other losses (switch, connecions etc) you possibly again should expect 1V per cell maybe slightly higher - possibly better try the 01113 at 6V for that reason - or 01165 or 01110 or 01279 - maybe 10W is still OK for all the parts and 200 to 250 lumens is not too shabby either
Good luck and keep us posted
Klaus
I re-measured my modified DBs and it looks like the voltage drop using NiMhs is quite high (see also my work with the 12 NiMhs driving a 12V halogen) - the 01307 (4.8V 1,1A) is dropping to around 4,3-4,4V (NiMhs in unkown state - maybe 2 weeks since loaded) or 1.1V per cell - so I would expect if you go to around 1C its more like 1V - so for the 01183 bulb with 4.7V I would use the 8AA and see what happens - don´t expect miracles - I think you might underdrive it to maybe 4-4,2V and around 300 lumens ? Maybe the 01319 is the better choice as it will drop the voltage less and give you almost 200 lu for approx double the time.
The 01148 in a 6AA should be driven almost to spec I would assume - maybe even slightly less - again you are at 1C load (and higher) so with all other losses (switch, connecions etc) you possibly again should expect 1V per cell maybe slightly higher - possibly better try the 01113 at 6V for that reason - or 01165 or 01110 or 01279 - maybe 10W is still OK for all the parts and 200 to 250 lumens is not too shabby either
Good luck and keep us posted
Klaus
