Hi CRI or neutral white ?

defloyd77

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
2,638
Location
Wisconsin
Just when you thought everyone in the forum actually understood both terms, this comes up.

Thanks Sven, but it seems that not only are there those who don't understand, they actually don't want to.

People understand the difference just fine for the most part. What this thread is proving is more people don't seem to understand hypothetical situations.

Come on guys, this isn't that hard to understand. If you HAD TO choose for whatever silly reason, which one would you choose? Nobody in this thread is asking if you actually have to make this choice in the real world.
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,440
Location
Dust in the Wind
Alright, I'll play.
Neutral white.
Why? Because it actually allows my eyes to decide vs those so called hi cri numbers that are at tint which actually adds a yellow, red, green or pink bias to objects causing my eyes to say "huh? thought that was brown but it sure looks green now".
 

kaichu dento

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
6,554
Location
現在の世界
People understand the difference just fine for the most part. What this thread is proving is more people don't seem to understand hypothetical situations.

Come on guys, this isn't that hard to understand. If you HAD TO choose for whatever silly reason, which one would you choose? Nobody in this thread is asking if you actually have to make this choice in the real world.
That's not what it's proving at all; what it's proving is that some people like to post on the internet just so long as they can have others participate in stuff that has no purpose and no goal.

The post from bykfixer was the funniest and the one from sven that you ignored was the most helpful.
 

defloyd77

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
2,638
Location
Wisconsin
That's not what it's proving at all; what it's proving is that some people like to post on the internet just so long as they can have others participate in stuff that has no purpose and no goal.

The post from bykfixer was the funniest and the one from sven that you ignored was the most helpful.

That's the internet in a nutshell. It's just for fun, just like the "you can only have 1 flashlight" threads. We all know none of us will ever have just 1 flashlight, but people participate in those threads anyway.

Which post from sven? The one I obviously read, said was a good post and responded to?
 

SMar

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jun 12, 2021
Messages
41
So for a possible real world scenario, let's say there was a shortage (well there is, but worse in this scenario) of LEDs. Due to their popularity, high CRI neutral white LEDs are unavailable. So you have to choose between a standard CRI neutral white emitter or a warm or cool white high CRI emitter.

My choice would be a neutral white emitter with standard CRI then. Color rendering can take the back seat if I don't have to have degrees Kelvin veering to either the warmer or cooler side.
 

TMedina

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
1,737
That might work if only the thing that was being looked at was washed out, but not when the background is too. That's why low pressure sodium lights suck as far as being able to see much of anything as they have a truly low CRI of 25.

It's a lot easier to notice things when you are able to see that they aren't the same color
That might be the key difference - I keep thinking in terms of near colors, like black on black, or dark gray on black.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2009
Messages
900
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Building upon sven's excellent post above, I find it useful to also keep in mind that what I see is reflected light. The color temperature and color spectrum components flowing out of my pocket torch are just the starting point of the visual circuit that must be completed if I am to see anything: the emitted light is next modified by the object being illuminated, with some spectra being absorbed and some spectra being reflected, in different amounts, depending on the material and surface treatment of the illuminated object. It's this partially redacted, reflected light that is returned to my wee eyeball.

My suspicion is that the reflectivity of objects in the illuminated environment is too often ignored (or at least discounted in importance). I've noticed that objects in urban environments tend to have hard surfaces that reflect more light as compared to objects in a woodland environment: tree bark absorbs light, granite buildings and concrete sidewalks reflect light (at least relative to trees and the dirt of the forest floor). This suggests that in urban environments, a higher color temperature light might be more useful, because the surfaces are more reflective. In support of this, the LEO's I know who work urban beats all prefer cool white emitters, or at least neutral white emitters at not less than 4500K. Reflexively, all of my outdoor-type friends swear by high CRI lights, with 4000K-4500K being the most common.

So, if for some reason I were to be limited to one emitter type, my choice would depend on where I would be most likely to be using the light; cool or neutral white in the city, high CRI lights in suburbia or in the woods.

But as a caveat, remember that we're CPF...it'll be a cold day in hell when I have only one light on me. :cool:
 

kaichu dento

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
6,554
Location
現在の世界
That's the internet in a nutshell. It's just for fun, just like the "you can only have 1 flashlight" threads. We all know none of us will ever have just 1 flashlight, but people participate in those threads anyway.
It's all choices for each as they see fit, and in a nutshell to me the title which drew me in immediately struck me since for years now many of us have been going for not one, but both.
 

defloyd77

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
2,638
Location
Wisconsin
It's all choices for each as they see fit, and in a nutshell to me the title which drew me in immediately struck me since for years now many of us have been going for not one, but both.

That's the fun of the thread, making people make the choice they really don't have to (or want to) make in real life.

Id rather take a pleasant CCT with average CRI, then a high CRI with bad CCT.
Whats exactly neutral is kinda up for Interpretation. Technically its the CCT of the sun, which is something like 5800K, although thats not neutral white to me personally.

To me neutral white is something that you could use during the day
(with the sun being the dominant light source) and at night (with warmer lights being the dominant light source) and for your light not to look too warm during the day or too cold at night. So smack dab in the middle of the typical 2700K bulb and the 5800K sun would be 4,250K, which aligns with my preference of 4000K LEDs. Bonus points for being about the same CCT as the moon and stars.

I don't think there's really such a thing as "bad CCT", but nowhere in this thread is the point of good or tint mentioned for the choices. Both options can have good and bad tint, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
 

sven_m

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
100
Location
Southern Germany
defloyd77 might have a point, OP meaning purely hypothetically, for fun, "If you could only have 1 flashlight". If so, then I'm out.

Yet, my thoughts about the very background might do no harm anyway. They even might make the decision a bit harder :cool:
 

SLLHUT

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 6, 2023
Messages
11
Location
HK
Theoretically speaking, CRI and neutral white are two different things. Neutral white is usually accommodated in the category of color temperature, as well as soft white and daylight. CRI (color rendering index) is to measure a light source "good or bad". It is not recommended that lamps with a low color rendering index (Ra<80) be put into daily use.

Neutral white, soft white, and daylight white are the most commonly used color temperatures in LED lighting. Their lights bring you different moods and feelings. And they all can be with high CRI.

Now the color temperature of warm white, neutral white, and daylight is used confusingly. In the field of LED bulbs and strip lighting, daylight is usually a color temperature around 5000K or between the 6000K-6500K range. 4000K to 4500K is what we classify as neutral white. Below 3500K is called warm white. The color temperature of real daylight in the day can never be single, so I guess that's why your daylight may not be the same as others'. So the best way to do this is to add a color temperature range or a specific color temperature value.

Here are the differences between soft white vs. daylight, take a look if needed: https://www.superlightingled.com/blog/soft-white-vs-daylight-whats-the-difference
 

cerbie

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
556
Easy choice: high CRI. My night walk/hiking light of choice is not neutral white by any definition (HDS High Noon), and TBH, I can't even tell the CCT is high, without a comparison point, once my eyes are adjusted.

But, that goes back to my D10 with an Osram Golden Dragon Plus, which had a very cool white output, but much higher than average CRI, for the time. More of those in-between wavelengths let's me see much better, outdoors, where so much is red and brown, plus some green. Things I want to see, as in process into an accurate mental map of what is around me, tend to look very flat until the mid-80s, CRI-wise. During over half the year, when leaves litter the ground, that's kind of important. The roughly 40% output drop from mid 70s to >=90 CRI is barely noticeable, while the difference in perceived depth of green, red, and brown surfaces is huge. It can be the difference between noticing a hole in the ground, a muddy patch, or an animal...and not.

Above maybe 92, CRI begins to fail as a useful measurement to compare different lights. But IME, even with a hideous white wall tint, anything close to that looks good enough, in actual use, to fully replace incandescent lights, for task lighting.
 

idleprocess

Flashaholic
Joined
Feb 29, 2004
Messages
7,197
Location
decamped
If I absolutely must choose one it would be a neutral white with merely good CRI. ≤4000K, mid-80s CRI. Pretty fond of my latest acquisition: Emisar D2 with 2700K / 5000K LEDs averaging out to ~3850K - an ideal dog-walking light for the smaller doggo less inclined to get into trouble than the big puppers.
 
Top