Hid's or projectors in halogen reflectors.

Crazytestpilot

Newly Enlightened
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After retrofitting hid projectors into my Oem reflectors I realized that when in low beam mode the bi-xenon projector is only putting out about half of the light that is being created do to the mechanical block off plate. The whole idea here was to get more light on the road for high AND low beams. I bought new aftermarket reflectors that claim to have better light focus than OEM reflectors and I'm testing the unthinkable. Yes Hid's directly into the reflectors. This is In most cases a terrible idea but what I have done is I moved the bulb around in the reflector by hand searching for a good beam pattern. I was able to find a really good pattern with a good cutoff almost as good as a projector. Then of course I had to customize the mount to hold the bulb in that position. The on-road results were great , way brighter than the projector without blinding oncoming drivers. Problem is now I have no high beam. I've tried the Hids with the solenoid but they don't shift to an optimal location so I can make the lows good or the highs good but not both at the same time. I really like the light output of this setup but am unaware of any product that will allow me to have low and high beams both with accurate beam patterns. Any Input would be greatly appreciated. thankyou.
 
Fundamentally not a good idea.

One, you're altering the lightsource from the one the lamp is intended to use. Halogens and HIDs emit light very differently. Halogens use a tightly coiled filament that is hottest, and most intense along its center, with very even nesrly 360* coverage around the axis of the filament, and light projected at all sngles to the front and rear.

HID burners have two extremely intense points of light at the tips of each of the electrodes, and the arc that is spanning the gap is very high intensity, but can move slightly.

It's interesting to try to play around and "optimize" the placement of an HID in place of a halogen, but without access to a goniophotometer (light meter that is capable of moving and testing intensity across a brosd range of vertical and horizontal points in a darkened room, basically) you can't really compare the changes in beam pattern, check for glare levels, your eye isn't really capable of actually determining what makes for "good" vs bad.

While you're correct that projectors fundamentally block out a significant amount of light, that's not a terrible problem. Headlamps are not meant to be flood lamps, too much light is as much a problem as too little. HIDs are also significantly more more efficient than halogen lamps. There's light to waste, and still have excellent performing lamps.

Headlamp codes call for ranges of intensity at certain test points throughout the beam pattern. It takes some serious r&d to determine what makes for s reasonable compromise for the lamp to optimize its performance.

This forum has under previous moderation take a very strict stance about retrofitting discussions. For generally good reasons- the biggest being the legal aspect, followed by issies sourcing legitimate lamps, then how to securely mount an assembly in a housing it was not designed for, and lastly resealing the housing once its cobbled together. That stance was basically "No, we don't discuss it."

I'm going to suggest you don't try to retrofit, for practical reasons. As far as this project has gone, it's neat to tinker, but chances are you're not going to be swayed. I'd suggest sticking to an OEM equivalent HID projector to retrofit, and not trying to modify the shutter mechanism to not obstruct the highbeam.
 
The reason it is against federal law to change the type of light source in a lamp is because it always changes the beam pattern. In my 50 years of fiddling with lights, the only time I have ever seen a change for the "better" was when I swapped halogen bulbs in a Cepek Super Offroader and went from "worst pattern I've ever seen" to "merely terrible."

I have come to realize the type of light source is far less important than the beam pattern. Exceptions might be where charging system and/or available space is severely limited, such as motorcycles or small cars. But as long as you have adequate power to run them, look for the very best bulbs of the type your lamp requires (yes I run 9011 in place of 9005 and 9012 in place of 9006), judged by precision of beam pattern, not just wattage. And make sure the lights are clean, clear and properly AIMED.

Good luck. Life is learning.
 
Yes, I know you guys are 100% correct. That setup was discarded immediately anyways. I did however just install your basic HID projectors and they work pretty darn good. I really don't like the shelf on the cut-off, it doesn't really serve a good purpose from what I can tell. Anyone ever try to remove that say with a dremel or something.
 
Hey Hamilton, if you are into off-roading you may like this build : I used the classic 6" round chrome halogen lights that we've been seeing for decades on old sand buggies and installed hids with a 100 watt ballast. Again manipulating the position of the bulb for a preferred beam pattern a locking it down with steel putty epoxy. With this you can get get a spot beam out to about a half a mile or a nice bright flood beam, whichever you like. It's crazy bright and each light can be built for only around $40.
 
The problem I have with the hi/lo shutter in the projector is that, say you aim your left or low shelf at dot spec, 2'drop over 25ft from level then the right shelf is high and will blind oncoming drivers anytime you are turning right. Now adjusting the right shelf to not blind anyone leaves the left shelf to low. It's kinda silly really, just a straight cut all the way across makes so much more sense to me not to mention it would be less distracting and therefore safer.
 
I've only played with a couple projector lamps, but some have had a flat horizontal cutoff, some have had a step, one had a very very large step. The main problem with the couple mini-H1 types that I just bought to play with, never was interested in using, was that, as other seemed to occassionally note or discuss on hidplanet, some had such a hard cutoff that emitted seemingly almost no light above the low beam cutoff. While that may seem ideal, it's actually not. While you don't want a ton of light above the horizontal low beam cutoff, you also don't want none. Roads are not flat, level straightaways. Some light above the cutoff is needed for you to be able to see both retroreflective/non-illuminated street signage, but also to allow the driver some ability to see the non-illuminated roadway when going up and down hills. It's often what you don't see, that causes problems.

I wouldn't try to level off the cutoff shutter, you may be exposing a portion of the beam that is far too intense, intended to be a portion of the highbeam, for safe use in traffic. If you have a lightmeter that is meant to accurately measure the lightsource you're using, you could make a replscement shield that has no step pattern in it, and see if this is the case, but I wpuldn't modify the original shield at first. The step may cause additional glare for drivers traveling the same direction of traffic as you, but the step is often meant to try to minimize glare for opposing traffic, while extending the reach of the low beam to the off-hand side of the beam pattern, to increase the reach of the lowbeam. I have also seen pics on hid planet of cutoff shields (usually oem or oem clones) where the cut off shutter has minute nubs on it that are meant to shade small areas of the lowbeam, decreasing intensity to try to minimize glare for oncoming traffic, sometimes "above" the projected horozontal cutoff, sometimes below, to attempt to reduce foreground intensity. My guess for the latter examples would be to reduce reflected light on wet roadways.
 
You seem to be very knowledgeable on this subject and I appreciate your input. To late though on the cutoff shelf mod. I ground it flat and everything seems to be ok. I'm kind of obsessive about checking and testing on the beam pattern and it just seems to be missing the shelf shift and nothing weird happening. I found I was looking at the shelf break on the cutoff line a lot while driving and I didn't like that fact. Now I'm looking down the road and feel less distracted and so in this particular case I think I made the right call to modify the plate.
 
Another thing I want to look in to is the overall beam shape. Low beam is great but when I go to high beam there is a whole lot of light happening and it lights up not just the road but the forest on both sides as well as high up as well. While this is nice it seems unnecessary to light up a bunch of stuff i'm not looking at and I would prefer that light be tapered in a bit to be focused more on the road. I'm sure this is something that will vary between manufacturer and different fixtures but I'll fiddle with bulb placement just a little to see if any focus adjustment can be found. Better lighting is safer lighting I believe.
 
On my 35 year old F350 with the badly yellowed 9004 headlights, nobody would flash their high beams at me even when my high beams were on.
I put in LED replacements for the 9004s and suddenly everyone was flashing their highs at me even when my highs were NOT on. They came out the next day.
I put in new, clear housings and Phillips bulbs, and I now I can sorta see and only get flashed when I leave the high beams on.

I put LED projectors in my van. They're way brighter, the cutoff is astoundingly sharp, and nobody flashes his highbeams at me.
 
I really don't like the shelf on the cut-off, it doesn't really serve a good purpose from what I can tell. Anyone ever try to remove that say with a dremel or something.
Generally, the cut-off is there to make sure the beam pattern doesn't blind oncoming traffic.

I'm not sure what make or model you've got, but if you check out some German cars, you can more starkly see how and why that cut-off exists. Germany takes their lighting on the road very seriously (high speeds on the Autobahn, with a strong culture of "don't be a nuisance to others"), so their cars tend to have a very well optimized cutoff that sends light forward, but keeps drivers from being blinded.

To give you an idea of how much research goes into correctly aiming lights, this is a kind of fun little blurb video about Hella's light tunnel research facility:


I'll second what others have mentioned; typically keeping to a like-kind bulb and/or cleaning the housing makes a WORLD of difference. Depending on the style of your car, you can also call around to dealers in your area, and see if anyone has the equipment to re-align your headlights.

Long story short, it's a really expensive, niche machine that dealers don't use a lot (people rarely want to pay for the service), but it's AMAZING. While most individual dealerships won't have access, if they're part of an overall "family" of dealerships, they likely have one machine for all the different dealerships, and you might be able to get someone to bring it out for you. I got to have the lights on an old car of mine properly re-aligned with one of those machines, and it absolutely blew my mind. That was even after I'd polished the lenses clear, which had made an astounding difference. Over the years, lights very much can drift out of alignment, and getting them properly re-aligned is something no one suggests, because not too many people realize it's even an option.

But also, it can be really hard to find out if that's even an option. Often the service writers aren't techs, so they don't know that's a thing, and even many techs don't know it's a thing. You have to essentially find one of the like 6 people within the dealership organization that knows what the equipment is AND/OR if/where they have theirs. A couple of phone calls, and maybe a double check with some of the management (or some of the good techs) might get you a lead, though.

The other issue, which I think the U.S. is culturally struggling with (and then compensating by selling vehicles with insane, blinding lights) is that as people age, they need more light. It's something like a 50 year old needs twice the light to see as a 25 year old.
So, historically, that was part of the "old people drive so slow," but that was actually quite a smart move by the oldies of yore, as they were ensuring they never overdrove their physical capabilities. I don't know your age or situation, but if you're new to the "old guy club," let me just be at least ONE VOICE that says it's okay to alter your driving as a means of keeping you safe. There's a bit of a Zeitgeist in the U.S. that we have to pretend aging is a bad, evil thing, and everyone needs to spend money to pretend we're all just as capable as we were at 20.

I put in new, clear housings and Phillips bulbs, and I now I can sorta see and only get flashed when I leave the high beams on.

I put LED projectors in my van. They're way brighter, the cutoff is astoundingly sharp, and nobody flashes his highbeams at me.
If you guys haven't tried it, simply wet sanding the housing removes the outer layer of UV degraded plastic, and you can essentially make your housings as bright and clear as new. Toothpaste makes for a decent finish buffing compound, and/or mild abrasive if it's not too bad.

Saves a LOT of money versus a new housing, and you get to retain the stock beam pattern.

Project Farm did a video on it, and Cerakote apparently makes a UV resistant final protection coat you can rub on when you're done to retard the future UV degradation.
 
I actually bought new headlight housings for my vehicle, they are only about $85 /pair. Aiming the projectors isn't difficult, I just think the shelf on the cutoff is a really poor design. If you bring the drivers side up to the recommended elevation then any vehicles approaching me from my right side will get blinded by the high shelf. If I correct that by lowering the right side then I'm loosing light elevation on the left side. So it's a no win situation, unless you go in and level it out with a dremel tool which fixes the problem and is so much better. After aiming my lights to DOT spec I then pay special attention to where my lights are hitting oncoming drivers. If it seems a little high or low I just make a little adjustment . No big deal
 
I've just had really bad experiences with any aftermarket lighting options - for on-road use. I used to be into "tuning culture" with Jeeps, German, and Japanese makes in a former, younger life, and when non-halogen options first came about, there were so many people trying different things, and it...just always kind of was disappointing and expensive. That's where I got really into German lighting regulations, haha. There was some interesting projects people did with retrofitting German market lights, and those were actually kind of neat because Germany is so serious about their cut-offs.

Again, I don't know what make or model you have, what your goal is, etc., so it's hard to say for sure.


Meanwhile, in the US, for the aftermarket, they tend to make housings to a price point, and the engineering for good optics is expensive. Half the time, if they even mount properly, that's a HUGE victory, haha. I kind of slowly came full circle, and just settled on cleaning my old lights, cleaning/fixing the circuits, getting new halogens, and then aiming them - and the results have always been way, way better than all the snake oil aftermarket shenanigans...for maybe $25 total. It's one of those funny things in life where the cheapest (albeit needing elbow grease) option is the best...and one of those things I wish I'd discovered when I was like 16, hahaha. So much wasted money.

Interestingly, I was doing some repairs yesterday on my car (my headlights went out), and it reminded me of another important aspect;
Check for corrosion on grounds or within the circuit!

Long story short, I live in the Midwest and there was a not-quite-recall for corrosion on relays from road salt on my vehicle, and it had been reducing the output of my lights, the dealer didn't actually fix it, and it ended up actually killing the whole circuit recently. I fixed now, but it made me think of this thread. As I was doing the repair, I ended up cleaning up the circuit, and it was a marked boost in overall output.

I also really do need to polish my lenses clear on my current car...so someone post in this thread in Spring 2025 to remind me, hahah.
 
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