Home use rechargeable batteries.

So, I guess, for me, misleading specs that kind of over promise and under deliver are bad, because (understandably) people are expecting really high capacity. Instead of misleading people to try and sell the product, list the specs like anything else, and let people decide.
I guess "relatively poor" would have been a better statement, which better reflects that the companies are under delivering the capacity they're implying.


From what I'd seen, they post the 1.5V cells in mWh, versus the normal mAh. mWh/V = mAh.
The tricky part is that these output 1.5V, but they're normal 3.7V Li-ion cells. If that's calculated at 1.5V, it's pretty crazy capacity, while if it's at 3.7-4.2V, it's okay (about a typical 14500). Some of the testing I saw showed them outputting what appeared to be closer to the lower end of that range (which means mAh is likely calculated with the higher voltage). So, it seems like they're switching to mWh so people will calculate them out to some monster capacity, only to end up with a capacity similar to a 14500.

This is a decent video where he looks at the Xtar ones:


There was another one (with a different brand...EBL?) I remember watching that talked more about capacity, but that was at work on lunch, so I can't find it, now, haha. There is another one somewhere, too, and they disassemble the...Xtar ones. That was kind of neat, as IIRC, the circuit was surprisingly compact.

I think if they had really impressive capacity, they wouldn't use a different metric, so that means I tend to assume these are going to be on the lower end of a 14500 capacity (since it's just a 14500 with a circuit), and then sprinkle in some marketing magic.
 
@Schokokeks, funny but according this Xtar FAQ, the new 1.5V Li-ions are better suited for sub 300lm AA flashlights on account of their protetion, and NiMH are still better suited to the speedlights I mentioned earlier, so I was wrong about the Eneloops being supplanted for that specifc purpose. Sounds they've had a 20 year reign for photo flashes. Learning new things!

Why does the 1.5V lithium battery not work on the high lumen flashlights?


The internal circuitry of 1.5V lithium batteries has limited current-handling capacity, making them unsuitable for high-current-demanding devices. Batteries with a stronger load-bearing capacity require better heat dissipation support.


NiMH and dry battery do not have protection designs and can reach a very high momentary current, so they can still work. While the 1.5V lithium battery has built-in protection board with over-current and temperature protection. The output will stop when the current exceeds 2-2.5A. Therefore, it is not recommended to use 1.5V lithium batteries in devices requiring instantaneous current exceeding 2.5A and continuous input current exceeding 2A.


Some flashlights has no current limit design, and they use linear drives. This kind of flashlights only fit the unprotected rechargeable batteries and dry batteries. For the flashlight with 300lm or higher requires a discharging current of about 2.5A, the 1.5V lithium batteries are not suitable. For the regular EDC flashlights with small discharge current (less than 200LM), the 1.5V lithium battery can work well.


In addition, if the 1.2V NiMH battery continuously discharge with current of more than 2A, it will shorten the cycle life. That's why some new batteries have an obvious shorter battery life after a period of use.


Can it be used on camera flashes?


The 1.5V lithium battery does not work on some camera flashes. First, camera flashes require a high instantaneous current and consume a lot of power. The maximum protection current for 1.5V lithium battery is 2.5A, and if the power of flashes exceeds the battery's maximum current limit, 1.5V lithium battery cannot be used. The second is that the battery will heat up and the temperature will rise after continuous flashing, causing the battery to enter protective status (but will not be damaged). Even you use NiMH batteries for camera flashes, you are suggested to use High-drain NiMH battery that can discharge at high rates.
 
@Schokokeks, funny but according this Xtar FAQ, the new 1.5V Li-ions are better suited for sub 300lm AA flashlights on account of their protetion, and NiMH are still better suited to the speedlights I mentioned earlier, so I was wrong about the Eneloops being supplanted for that specifc purpose. Sounds they've had a 20 year reign for photo flashes. Learning new things!
I think this was the key, "In addition, if the 1.2V NiMH battery continuously discharge with current of more than 2A, it will shorten the cycle life. That's why some new batteries have an obvious shorter battery life after a period of use."


I don't use camera flashes, but I'm assuming they use capacitors, and then dump that all at once?
Have you tried Eneloop Pro's in those? I only have a few Pro's, so I don't use them as much, but I think they can allow for more amps without it deteriorating as much...though, they're only rated for 500 cycles total, so maybe it's just that they rate the lifecycle assuming you're dumping them hard.

I always forget the Pro's exist, and that people choose them for more than the capacity.
 
I think this was the key, "In addition, if the 1.2V NiMH battery continuously discharge with current of more than 2A, it will shorten the cycle life. That's why some new batteries have an obvious shorter battery life after a period of use."


I don't use camera flashes, but I'm assuming they use capacitors, and then dump that all at once?
Have you tried Eneloop Pro's in those? I only have a few Pro's, so I don't use them as much, but I think they can allow for more amps without it deteriorating as much...though, they're only rated for 500 cycles total, so maybe it's just that they rate the lifecycle assuming you're dumping them hard.

I always forget the Pro's exist, and that people choose them for more than the capacity.
Yes, that's pretty much exactly how they work. To be clear, I haven't used them professionally for a while.

Did try Pros when they came out for that purpose. They died faster than regular eneloops with no noticeable improvement in performance. Funny, but early gen 1.5v lions did work very well but also died very quickly. Maybe the protection wasn't there. Probably some quietly settled lawsuits. (I know those happen with carbon forks on bicycles).

Always wondered why they never just made speedlights to use 3.6V 14500 cells. Would have made more sense, kept the form factor. Have a feeling it was because photographers run through cells so quickly that occasions will always arise when one needs to race to 7-11 for emergency AAs. Photojournalists too. AAs are ubiquitous all over the world.
 
Have a feeling it was because photographers run through cells so quickly that occasions will always arise when one needs to race to 7-11 for emergency AAs. Photojournalists too. AAs are ubiquitous all over the world.
100% this.

I actually have a 2xAA Surefire Scout. They were a fairly limited run for a Government contract, and they used AA because you can get them anywhere.

I think, too, at a certain point, professionals just kind of have expenses, and don't mind as much. Photographing an event? Just bring a 24 pack of AA's and call it a day. I remember, back in the day, if you bought in BULK, AA's were pretty cheap. Right now, if you buy more than 2500 on BatteryJunction, you can get a Panasonic AA for $0.25/each.

"Time is money," and it's probably honestly cheaper for a business to just buy a case of AA's and carry a few dozen to an event than to pay someone to manage charging batteries. Rechargeable cells make sense for individuals, but disposable makes a lot more sense when you have to pay people for their time.
 

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