Household Lighting Lineup

[tnuckels]

We are redoing a 1950s house – gut, add-on, remodel – and the interior is headed toward a sort of wood & steel look which is allowing me to place simple, utilitarian, & inexpensive fixtures and to splurge on the bulbs. Enter LED bulbs into the realm of possibilities.

I'm aware of the older LED manufacturers: Cree, Endor, Nichia, Osram, Phillips & Seoul, but haven't been following the market for a while now (even when I did, it was more from a shiny flashlight bauble angle) and so am wondering if there are any other new, viable players I should be looking into. I also know that some LED manufacturers, like Phillips, cover many market segments by making the LED components as well as the devices they end up in, while others seem content to continue to only make the bits & pieces.

So, my main question is this: Who's got the best household lighting product line on the market currently in terms of various applications & reliability?

Yes, I know there's a SEARCH feature on the board, but I'm in a bit of a hurry & suffer from "pronounced slothful tendency" disease. Any helpful opinions are appreciated, sarcastic quips … not so much.

In case you've not see this one, here's a real work of ART.

 

[LEDninja]

At the $10-25 range you get 40W (CFL 9-11W) equivalents.

-Finally! A decent LED bulb for $10 (review) 7.5 watts, 430 lumens.
Note this bulb is normally just under $20. The under $10 is a sale price.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?313596-Finally!-A-decent-LED-bulb-for-10-(review)

-EcoSmart A-19 40 watt LED (<$20 Home Depot) 8.6W 429 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?284926-EcoSmart-40-watt-LED

-Zetalux 2 standard (~$20 Earthled.com on sale now at $9.85) 6W 300 lumens.
-Zetalux 2 pro (~$35 Earthled.com on sale now at $19.85) 7W 450 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?307285-Zetalux-2-standard-and-pro
-There is a picture of the Philips 8W remote phosphor bulb at the bottom of the '2nd post'. (CAD$25 Home Depot Canada) 8W 410 lumens. Not available now.
Philips has changed their lineup again. they now have 3 types of globe style bulbs.
- Philips 9W LED "A" Dimmable Soft White 470 lumens $25 (these are fairly directional);
- PHILIPS 4W A19 Non-Dimmable Bright White (25W) 250 lumens $20, PHILIPS 6W A19 Non-Dimmable Bright White (40W) 450 lumens $25 (these have more sideways light);
- PHILIPS 7W LED G25 Soft White 250 lumens $20, PHILIPS 9W G25 Globe Soft White (40W) 435 lumens $25 (these are the big vanity mirror kind).
Ref (CANADIAN site! US site carries slightly different stuff)
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...atchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&s=true

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At the $40 range you get 60W+ (CFL 13-15W) equivalents.

Philips 12w Teardown (~CAD$40 Home Depot Canada) 12W 800 lumens.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308557-Philips-12w-Teardown
Philips now have a 18w 1100 lumens bulb. 75W equivalent.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?318302-Philips-18-Watt-A21-LED-Bulb

New EcoSmart 60 watt equivelent A-19 LED bulbs
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...uivelent-A-19-LED-bulbs-75-watt-R30-eqivelent

-

100W equivalents are expected before the end of this year. Expect to pay around $40 to $55. I do not think the liquid filled 'piece of art' is out yet. Again should be out before the end of this year.
-----

If you will have some downlights:
How much cooling airflow is in your recessed downlights? LED and CFL bulbs do not like hot environments/enclosed fixtures.

LED 'bulbs' specially built for downlights are Cree's LR6 and CR6.
- Hacking the LR6/CR6 Lighting Modules
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?289164-Hacking-the-LR6-CR6-Lighting-Modules
- Cree LR6 vs. CR6 including color temp?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?312165-Cree-LR6-vs.-CR6-including-color-temp
There are many more Cree light bulbs LR4 for 4" cans and brighter versions of the LR6.
Installation of the Ecosmart/CR6 is easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UKP_lvzY3A

If there is airflow through the cans you will probably get away with a reflector CFL or LED equivalent.
- Trying out the new Home Depot EcoSmart LED BR30 bulb
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...out-the-new-Home-Depot-EcoSmart-LED-BR30-bulb
- PHILIPS 13W BR30 Interior Flood, Dimmable, Soft white (65W) 650 lumens.

PAR bulbs tend to have narrow beams (spotlight). Get the R or BR kind.

-----

In additional to the above all the bulb manufacturers are introducing LED bulbs, See the link in this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-comparison-includes-Samsung-LG-Toshiba-Sharp
This should get you started.

 

[skyled]

I've sworn by Tuwago bc their stuff is priced a bit below the larger players and so far their bulbs have held up quite well.

And after buying a lot of junk from those LED e-tailers and importers online, I've learned my lesson. - cheap quality and worst of all bad service.

Had the Tuwago candelabras for about a year now, A bulb (a19) for half a year used indoor and one on porch, globe in bathroom for half year - held up in my humid small bathroom thus far, and several of their reflectors for some track and can lights.

All their bulbs are solid but only the candelabra is dimmable. I wish the others were but im happy with them so far. http://www.amazon.com/Tuwago-3-8W-Dimmable-Candelabra-LED/dp/B004MDEM6E/ref=zg_bs_2314207011_29

check both their site and amazon though, bc i found amazon is sometimes more expensive. but amazon takes credit card so i like that.

 

[tnuckels]

I've had nothing but bad experiences with products from Feit so I'm not surprised that their subsidiary UtiliTech reviews equally poorly. Thanks for connecting the dots.

Not surprising that Phillips has a strong lineup and well built products. I was especially impressed with the teardown of the remote phosphor bulb, its color and dispersion, and am typing my reply by its light now.

I like the Cree can retrofits, but I doubt if we'll be doing any can fixtures, which should allow for more bulb sizes & shapes.

Of the smaller players, EcoSmart looks like it has promise, as well as Tuwago.

My main concern with LED household lighting is reliability. I too have purchased "bulbs" from e-tailors that are poorly made & insufficiently cooled that failed, not because of LED failure, but due to the support system they were packaged in. All our fixtures thus far will have the bulb hanging out there in the breeze, such as it is, and are not much more than a covered socket, be it hanging as a pendant (plastic), mounted to a ceiling (ceramic), or on an articulated arm (metal, think outdoor spot fixture mounted inside). So, while buildup should be minimal, I still have concern that the heat generated by the LEDs & stepping down from 120vac could still be the Achilles' heal for this solution.

Thanks for your replies Ninja & Sky. Pity the mundane world of household lighting doesn't seem to generate the same love & attention as $500 flashilghts.

 

[Ken_McE]

Based on my own experience with a 72 watt LED office light I think I'd look for the ones with the best warranty.

 

[idleprocess]

I bought one of the UtiliTech "40W" bulbs in April, installed it in a nearly-enclosed fixture (there are 4 semi-circular slots at the top about 2 inches long and a quarter-inch wide), and have left it running 24/7. It's at about 2000 hours now and output looks to be the same as it was on day 0. Its output seems comparable to the EcoSmart "40W", which I have had for longer (but have not run as long).

No idea how well it performs in aggregate relative to the other manufacturers/models.

 

[purduephotog]

I've quite a bit of experience with Cree Cans here, and I'll say that if you want bright- get the DR1000 units. However there is a new LMR4 coming out that is 1000 lumens as well- but I didn't buy the eval kit from Cree to test them out.

That said 4 DR-1000 units in a 12x12 room is too bright- but it looks very good.

 

[tnuckels]

These are the 5 LED "bulbs" I can easily get my hands on for evaluation: Sylvania, GE, Phillips, CREE, & EcoSmart.

Siemens seems to own OSRAM which seems to supply Sylvania & they may all be sprouts from the same root

Don't know who's in bed with GE (& from their web presence, I'm not sure they even know)

Phillips is their own "soup to nuts" entity

CREE seems to be doing their own deal, but unfortunately seems to have a small product lineup

Not sure who supplies EchoSmart, but the one tear-down used Citizen's LEDs.

I'd like to use CREE as my feel for their reputation is good, they appeal to any knee-jerk xenophobic urges I might experience, but from what I can tell the seem to only offer can-light retrofits at this time.

Besides the intentionally directional (spot & flood) lights and the unintentionally directional (snow cone) lights, I am interested in lights that mimic incandescent's halo of light (out the front, to the sides, & spill toward the base). I see couple mfrs that produce this type light:
Sylvania – lousy picture, it's the bulb on the left – announced but not delivered?
GE – still insists on their big, distracting logo on the bulbs tip
Phillips – I like it, my wife hates it

Even Phillips, who seems to have the best lineup & the most coherent website, gets a bit confusing when trying to discern their offerings: they have Ambient LED, Deco LED, & possibly something called Endura LED (industrial non-consumer line?). The marketing tends to obscure the engineering, unfortunately.

Most fun of all is trying to compare across 2-3 mfrs standing in the hardware store when some rate by lumens, some by watt-equivalence (there seems to be some fudge on how many lumens = how many watts), some include color ratings in K while others just say warm or cool, and even within a single mfr the packaging updates keep moving & changing the info available. Crikey! It's enough to put you off the entire subject.

Right now I'm leaning towards Phillips as they offer a good selection, have a good (K2 aside) reputation, and pound for pound seem to produce the sturdiest product.

Corrections or clarifications of what I've gleaned so far are welcome …

 

[idleprocess]

Philips Ambient LED line seems to be directed at general lighting; their Deco LED line seems to be accent lighting and other small-scale form-factors.

I have the so-called "alien head" 60W-equiv bulb. Difficult to distinguish its output from an incandescent, but also a tad larger than an A19 incandescent. Gets pretty hot with use. I wish its color temperature were cooler, but I'm a distinct minority in the lighting market.

EcoSmart appears to be less a manufacturer and much more an outfit that brands stuff from whoever makes something that fits into their present line-up. They seem to be of better quality than one of Home Depot's previous house brands, N-Vision. Their "40W" bulb and their new "60W" bulb are pretty clearly sourced from Lighting Science. I gather that at least one of their recessed downlights is a re-badged Cree of some repute.

 

[deadrx7conv]

http://www.muanalysis.com/_document...n Feit, GE, Pharox, Philips, Sylvania(1).pdf

GE needs to make their omnidirectional bulb in a 60w equivalent. 40w equivalent isn't enough. Looks like GE might make some of us happy next year: http://www.genewscenter.com/Press-R...ng-Goes-from-60-to-100-in-16-Months-3297.aspx

I haven't seen the omnidirectional Sylvania anywhere yet. Sylvania had a bunch of press releases a couple months ago and now we hear nothing. I have their regular A19 LED 60 watt equivalent. It, like the Phillips bulb, is plenty bright. But, whether you can use it, like the other non-omnidirectional bulbs, depends on fixture type, bulb placement, and whether you like the way they look.

Still waiting:
http://www.switchlightbulbs.com/wheretobuy.php
http://www.lumenflow.com/VWLG Overview-5-2-11-u-lume.pdf

And, HD's ecosmart bulbs now available in 4900k(60w & 40w), and 3000k 60w equivalent, featuring the huge heatsink and squished bulb look. I need to pick up a couple but don't care how they look. I have several of their original 40w LED equivalent bulbs, and they had several revisions, which forced me to buy more in order to match them in my downward firing light fixture. I even had a defective one. I was a little surprised in the quality control and revisions.

 

[tnuckels]

I really like the Phillips "alien-head" A19 so far, despite my wife's misgivings regarding how it looks. I saw the EcoSmart Jellyfish Head squishy head, beret capped offering in silver (cool) & gold (warm) offerings and brought home one of the warm 2700K ones to try out.

I want to stay away from the blue/purple/green end of the spectrum that we saw when LEDs were young. Neutral to warmish would work for me, but I'm not exactly sure what the temp range of a neutral light is, though several mfrs are calling around 2700-3000K warm.

 

[ryguy24000]

what phase of the construction are you in? you'll have time to reasearch between rough in and trim!!

 

[tnuckels]

In a re-model/add-on, who can say what stage of construction we're in? Electrician starts next week.

We are using the underside of the original house's 4/12 pitch roof as our new slightly vaulted ceiling throughout about 2/3 of the house. Day one on the construction site, tearing off the old sheet rock, my wife falls in love with the 50yr old 6" tongue and groove boards they used back then for the decking. Shored up from below or suspended from above by the new roof structure, the ceiling joists, struts, & ties are now out leaving only the rafters & decking as our ceiling. It's a nice look plus adds volume to an otherwise cramped 50's house 8' ceiling height room.

But I digress …

I've now got a couple of "alien-head" Phillips running around the current house. Perhaps my wife will acquire a taste for them through exposure … same way she originally balked at pricey LED flashlights, but now carries one on her keychain. So far, so good. I'm gonna' install some more of the Phillips throughout the house as I've just about settled on them.

My previous question stands about neutral color lighting: What would be a good guide for selecting a color range in K for a neutral light source?

I can look at the charts, make a good guess, but in the past when upgrading LEDs in flashlights it never seemed to work out quite right. LED lottery!

 

[idleprocess]

Incandescents are generally rated with a CCT of 2700K; as blackbody radiators they tend to reside right on that curve. Sunlight is supposedly around 5500K. I'd say that "neutral" lies closer to 5500K than 2700K, myself.

As you know, the CCT for LED's is what point along the curve that the LED's white balance is closest to, with the bin spec typically defining a limited 2D region on the CIE chart... when running at rated current. Manufacturers have been producing tighter bins with each new iteration of product, but there's still variation. I suspect that LED light bulbs are tuned on the production line for consistency, so there's some truth-in-labelling - can't say that my 2700K units are particularly distinguishable from incandescents for example.

I can't really say that there's any sure means of getting the exact color temperature you want short of purchasing one and testing it in your intended application before committing. Perhaps some retailer will have some semi-isolated fixtures that you can test with a color swatch or photo.