How do you really feel?

C

CM

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Handlobraesing said:
...CM, does the Cree have the same Vf at 300mA compared to the Luxeon at 400-450mA?

So far all the Cree's that I have tested are running similar to H forward voltage in Lumiledland terms at 700mA. Some are lower. One interesting thing with Cree is that they do not bin by Vf. If they did, I think it would probably make Lumileds look even worse.
 
C

Curious_character

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It's the same dilemma faced by users of any modern electronic device, where the bang for the buck is constantly and rapidly increasing.

If you have a light that adequately serves some useful purpose, like seeing your way around the house at night, walking the dog, or peering into an engine, there's no need to throw it away and replace it with the newest and fanciest. If the light level is adequate and you replace the battery once a year (or even month) or recharge it every month, the XR-E won't buy you anything much. And if there's a Luxeon light currently available and you need one now, and available ones are adequate for your purpose, there's no need to wait -- although I'll bet we'll be seeing fire sales of Luxeon lights before long.

But there are a lot of cases where double the run time, double the brightness, half the battery size, or some combination of those benefits are really useful. In my case, I'm always on the lookout for a long-throw light to take backpacking to supplement my headlamp. The lighter weight and brighter, the better. So there's a real advantage to the XR-E for that purpose.

And if you're considering buying a new light anyway, what you'll get if you wait is that doubling of brightness or run time, or smaller size. The first manufacturers to come out with XR-E lights are understandably charging a premium, just like they do for the latest and greatest computer or MP3 player. But before long the prices will come down to roughly where they are today for Luxeon lights. Every person has to decide whether the wait is worth it.

I don't really have any daily use for any flashlight, and get them just because I'm fascinated by the technology and find them interesting. Brighter, lighter weight, and long run time are all cool, so there's no point for me to buy any more Luxeon lights.

And I know it won't be long before I'm saying exactly the same thing about the XR-E when the next advancement comes along. That's just how it is.

c_c
 
B

Bozzlite

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I am very happy with my "old" L1P Fenix 1 watt luxeon. Sheesh, I've had it for less than a year.

On the other hand, as soon as Fenix comes out with the Cree version of the L1P with tail clickie, I'll be grabbing one up.
 
Atomic_Chicken

Atomic_Chicken

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Greetings!

I'll only become really excited about CREE Emitters when they stop trying to squeeze every lumen out of them, and instead focus on the improved battery life for the same output level. Battery life is FAR, FAR more important to me than having a sun-in-a-pocket blazing wall-o-light.

Sure... I'll probably pick up a L1P CE or two when they're available, but my favorite lights are things like the Princeton Tec Impact XL which give me over 50 hours of CONTINUOUS and very useful (read: not blinding) light output from a set of AA Lithiums.

Best wishes,
Bawko
 
EngrPaul

EngrPaul

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I feel fine, thank you for asking.

5mm LED's are still floating around in consumer flashlights. I guess Luxeons will do so for a long time.
 
Chronos

Chronos

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SUUUPER, Thank you for asking. :)

Actually I'm impressed with the advances of LEDs. Much lower voltage for the same output. So far I've really loved my Cree-based lights, but they are all single-cell configurations. That said, my two favorite lights are still LuxV based, due to the wonderful large and bright beam patterns they produce, though my ML-1 is close behind.

I'll be interested to see what Surefire produces with their KL5 Cree-based replacement with optics. Can it go toe-to-toe with my custom optic light? Can it beat the output and beam pattern of my HD45? Right now I doubt it, but am open minded.
 
Anglepoise

Anglepoise

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I am older than many on this site and age begets caution.
Lights I use daily and love don't suddenly overnight stop work as useful tools.
Certainly the new LEDS are exciting but there is no hurry to tear all my light apart, re machine expensive reflectors. And there is the ever present possibility of improved Lux III's that might just drop in, and be just around the corner.

I have done my own tests and am quite happy to wait just a little longer to see
how things develop.
 
Ty_Bower

Ty_Bower

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I've got too many lights already, so I'm not rushing out to buy new ones. If I did, they'd probably be Cree. That said, I'm not about to go dump my current load of Luxeon lights just so I can go buy new Cree versions.

Of course, I'm a flashaholic, so I will inevitably buy another light in the future. It very well may be a Cree, if the price and features look good.
 
MarNav1

MarNav1

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Personally, I can't wait for the firesales to begin! I don't have a Cree based light yet
but got in on the group buy Jetbeam light that's Cree based. I don't have a problem
buying Lux based light's at all but I did buy a couple that should be Cree friendly. Let
the sales begin! :naughty:
 
Icebreak

Icebreak

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I have some old Dat2Zip sandwich driven Mag 2AAs. Not strong by today's standards but they still perform flawlessly. They will continue in their roles.

I have one quandry. My version 1 ElektroLumens Tri-Star works great. I would like to upgrade it to Cree's. I don't think I'm going to right now because the Cree Q3 may be the way to go. Or I'll just leave it alone and continue using it as I have. I haven't decided yet.

Last week was a banner week for me and LED lights. I received both a MilkySpit Creemated HDS and a modamag Cree Draco. Having experienced what Crees can do in excellent, optimally collimated lights I will not buy another LED flashlight with a current Lux III in it. I might buy a headlamp with a Lux III in it at a heavily reduced price. I would prefer to purchase a regulated, variable brightness Cree Q3 headlamp with massive runtime next spring or summer.

How do I feel? I go through stages of excitement, boredom and excitement. I'm pretty freakin' excited right now. Cree Draco and Cree HDS are awesome.
 
yekim

yekim

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I bought a pile of lux lights. dozens of them, outfitted my family and friends with them, as well as nearly every nook and cranny of my home, and now the cree thing came along, and hot on its heels the promise of even more efficient lights in the not too distant future.

I think that while the cree is pretty cool, they do not take anything away from the usefulness of the lux lights i have, and I might wait awhile before i go on another mass upgrade, save for maybe a personal light or two....or 4...or 10, you never know.
 
F

fnmag

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From a Gerber Infinity Ultra sporting a red Led to a Milky M320 sporting 6 Lux 1s, I'm very happy with my non-Cree battery of lights. I certainly have a number of Crees as well. For me, it's the characteristics of the flashlight itself. While the Cree has brought some positives to the game there's no need to discard a good Lux or even a good Nichia! How do I feel? With my right hand! :crackup:
 
Concept

Concept

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I had to get some lights when I started (quite recently) and now I am getting the Cree wave of items but now that I have most needs covered I can slow down and pick things up a my lesure. I am slowing down! :)
 
NewBie

NewBie

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CM said:
So far all the Cree's that I have tested are running similar to H forward voltage in Lumiledland terms at 700mA. Some are lower. One interesting thing with Cree is that they do not bin by Vf. If they did, I think it would probably make Lumileds look even worse.

:lolsign:


Meanwhile, CREE is working on even better LEDs...


I'm looking over at my dinosaur pile, and I sure have a lot of modding to accomplish....


.
 
F

flashy bazook

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dang, yaesumofo you ask a very interesting question, I spent quite a bit of time yesterday typing in a post, only to have the CPF server act up again and crashing down the browser, taking the post with it. In the meantime, I see many other good posts saying a lot of what I had put down.

Basically I think that, yes, with the new output efficiencies, most luxeons are toast. Nobody buys a computer that is several years old anymore, and this should also happen for outdated LEDs in an environment where the technology is advancing rapidly. But, as we approach those efficiency limits, the same thing will happen as with computers (which have also been reaching limits), with longevity increasing again.

There are important niches - I just got one of the streamlight propolys with multiple LEDs (supposedly already outdated). Yet, with a manufacturer claimed runtime of 336 hours, and a tough yet light shell, this flashlight can serve as a survivor tool. The beam is nothing special, just a blob of light really, but you can see most of what there is to see in a room.

I've been upgrading my flashlight supply recently, getting rid of lots of older LEDs and getting new ones. To do this I spent some time comparing the specs of many flashlights, including the latest luxeons. Basically, I had concluded that the Lux-III and Lux-Vs were not yet acceptable because of the very short runtimes. The exception is if you use a large form factor - for instance, putting in a K2 based replacement into a 3xD Maglite gets great output, runtime probably measured in days, and does the job the Maglite used to do.

But the small, 1xcr123a or 2xcr123a flashlights I saw sporting a multi-watt luxeon were toys rather than tools in my opinon. With the new crees, the runtime vs. luminosity charts have suddenly become useable. In fact I didn't buy any of the lux flashlights (with one specialized exception), and am now waiting to see how the new crop of flashlights shakes out, and then I'll buy one or two new ones.

Finally, just wanted to thank you, yaesumofo, for a number of helpful posts of yours, I spent quite a bit of time following up your info on the McGizmos, for instance, and found myself also in complete agreement with your views on the mizer settings - runtime is ALWAYS important!

flashy bazook
 
W

wasBlinded

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Now that Cree emitters with nearly twice the efficiency are out, my existing Luxeon based lights no longer work and I'll have to quit using them. Unfortunately, I don't have any Cree lights yet so I'm totally in the dark.


OK, so I'm being a smart-***. I'll upgrade my lights as necessary, but so far nothing is necessary. The lights that I have now and use most have all been built or modified with U-bin Luxeons of tints that please me, so I'm retty happy with what I have. It will be fun to play with the new emitters and upgrade some existing lights, but I'm not in a big rush to do so.
 
M

Mr_Dead

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I think the Luxeons will just fade from the market soon.

IMHO, almost nobody is going to pay over $50 for an LED flashlight that's half as good. The people willing to pay premium prices are a relatively small niche market, and they're not about to shell out for glaringly mediocre performance by today's standard, never mind what the standard used to be. That end of the market measures value against the best available, not "adequacy".

Those not compelled to upgrade may have perfectly good reasons, but they have no influence over the market... they're not spending, so their money doesn't "vote". Those who are compelled to upgrade will be doing just that - upgrading. There are just no new sales for old tech anywhere in the picture above the "discount retail" level.
 
Xygen

Xygen

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Don't you think Lumileds/Phillips R&D-Department is working hard on an answer to the cree XR-E? They earned so much money, they surely can afford a really large R&D-Department...
 
bitslammer

bitslammer

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I think it great that the competition is heating up. I'm eagerly awaiting a 1xAA light that can really throw AND has great runtime, but I'm guessing that I'll still be carrying my Fenix L0P-se and L1S for a while. 99% of the time either of these give the perfect useable amount of light. My XO3 and P1 are handy out in the yard but often too much light for the job inside.

So for me it's as much about efficiency as it is added lumens.
 

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