How Much Is Gas In Your Area?
- Thread starter Marty Weiner
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Darell
Flashaholic
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
I have *plenty* of reason to complain, actually. But probably not what you're used to hearing -- Gasoline is FAR too cheap in the US. Gas at $1.50 = vehicles purchased with little regard for fuel economy. Gas at $5 = efficient and alternative fuel vehicles will finally be seen as "viable."
I have *plenty* of reason to complain, actually. But probably not what you're used to hearing -- Gasoline is FAR too cheap in the US. Gas at $1.50 = vehicles purchased with little regard for fuel economy. Gas at $5 = efficient and alternative fuel vehicles will finally be seen as "viable."
Tomas
Banned
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
Last time I picked up my monthly 10 gallons it was $1.41.9 (last week).
Last time I picked up my monthly 10 gallons it was $1.41.9 (last week).
Marty Weiner
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
Things have "calmed down" in the L.A. area. Unleaded (87 octane) is readily available for as low as $1.69.
Marty
Things have "calmed down" in the L.A. area. Unleaded (87 octane) is readily available for as low as $1.69.
Marty
Silviron
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
Darell, that's like complaining that the price of beer is too low because it doesn't force people to buy Champagne.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
While I agree with your ultimate goal, your method this time leaves a lot to be desired. People that think the economy is bad now would despair at the results of your $5.00 gas.... Sure, in five years, there would be a proliferation of alternative fueled vehicles. Unfortunately, no one would be able to buy them. We'd be in a depression to make the one 70 years ago seem like a fun time.
Darell, that's like complaining that the price of beer is too low because it doesn't force people to buy Champagne.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
While I agree with your ultimate goal, your method this time leaves a lot to be desired. People that think the economy is bad now would despair at the results of your $5.00 gas.... Sure, in five years, there would be a proliferation of alternative fueled vehicles. Unfortunately, no one would be able to buy them. We'd be in a depression to make the one 70 years ago seem like a fun time.
IlluminatingBikr
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2003
- Messages
- 2,320
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
[ QUOTE ]
Darell said:
I have *plenty* of reason to complain, actually. But probably not what you're used to hearing -- Gasoline is FAR too cheap in the US. Gas at $1.50 = vehicles purchased with little regard for fuel economy. Gas at $5 = efficient and alternative fuel vehicles will finally be seen as "viable."
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately (in a sense), that is probably true. If gas was outrageous, then just about everybody would have electric, hydrogen, or some other alternative source of power. But because gas is fairly cheap, and other things (hydrogen and electric) are more expensive, people continue to choose gasoline.
[ QUOTE ]
Darell said:
I have *plenty* of reason to complain, actually. But probably not what you're used to hearing -- Gasoline is FAR too cheap in the US. Gas at $1.50 = vehicles purchased with little regard for fuel economy. Gas at $5 = efficient and alternative fuel vehicles will finally be seen as "viable."
[/ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately (in a sense), that is probably true. If gas was outrageous, then just about everybody would have electric, hydrogen, or some other alternative source of power. But because gas is fairly cheap, and other things (hydrogen and electric) are more expensive, people continue to choose gasoline.
Darell
Flashaholic
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:
While I agree with your ultimate goal, your method this time leaves a lot to be desired. People that think the economy is bad now would despair at the results of your $5.00 gas.... Sure, in five years, there would be a proliferation of alternative fueled vehicles. Unfortunately, no one would be able to buy them. We'd be in a depression to make the one 70 years ago seem like a fun time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, thanks for the hook. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The price increase should have happened slowly over the years. Not overnight. Gas is cheaper today (when inflation is taken into account) than it was 25 years ago. Let's also consider that the wealthiest country in the world is about the only country that pays less than $2/gallon for their gasoline *at the pump* (oil-exporting countries not withstanding). I'll go out on a limb and say that a move to alternative fuel vehicles could help BOOST the economy. More jobs in diverse sectors. And these jobs wouldn't even contribute so directly to killing people. Hard for me to find the downside, actually. The price you pay per gallon of gasline is already FAR more then $5/gallon. I just wish it were reflected at the pump instead of on my 1040.
The idea here is that driving with alternative fuels can be cheaper for the individual AND the community than the cost of driving today. (Should we even bother to bring health and politics into the discussion? - seems the only thing anybody is interested in is the MONEY). But it won't happen until there is some big push. That big push ain't gonna happen if there is no perceived need. And I'm here to tell you that if there is no concern about purchasing a 10mpg vehicle to commute in, then there is no perceived need.
A better analogy than the beer/champagne one that you offered may be: The price of beer is so low that it doesn't force people to drink responsibly.
Tag. You're it.
[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:
While I agree with your ultimate goal, your method this time leaves a lot to be desired. People that think the economy is bad now would despair at the results of your $5.00 gas.... Sure, in five years, there would be a proliferation of alternative fueled vehicles. Unfortunately, no one would be able to buy them. We'd be in a depression to make the one 70 years ago seem like a fun time.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, thanks for the hook. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The price increase should have happened slowly over the years. Not overnight. Gas is cheaper today (when inflation is taken into account) than it was 25 years ago. Let's also consider that the wealthiest country in the world is about the only country that pays less than $2/gallon for their gasoline *at the pump* (oil-exporting countries not withstanding). I'll go out on a limb and say that a move to alternative fuel vehicles could help BOOST the economy. More jobs in diverse sectors. And these jobs wouldn't even contribute so directly to killing people. Hard for me to find the downside, actually. The price you pay per gallon of gasline is already FAR more then $5/gallon. I just wish it were reflected at the pump instead of on my 1040.
The idea here is that driving with alternative fuels can be cheaper for the individual AND the community than the cost of driving today. (Should we even bother to bring health and politics into the discussion? - seems the only thing anybody is interested in is the MONEY). But it won't happen until there is some big push. That big push ain't gonna happen if there is no perceived need. And I'm here to tell you that if there is no concern about purchasing a 10mpg vehicle to commute in, then there is no perceived need.
A better analogy than the beer/champagne one that you offered may be: The price of beer is so low that it doesn't force people to drink responsibly.
Tag. You're it.
Silviron
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
Dang D. Out-foxed again. I was going to go with a bread / cake analogy instead of beer / champagne, but that was too french revolutionish.
I wouldn't mind (much) an increasing tax on gasoline - say 10 cents a gallon per year for ten years to fund alternative fuel research and infrastructure building if it could be run compentently and honestly (something that the government isn't capable of doing).
You are smoking something illicit though IMHO, if you believe that $5.00 gas would be good for the economy in any kind of short run situation, although if we survived for a decade or so it would eventually be good for the economy.
I don't want to play tag anymore though. You can consider yourself winner, I'll admit I'm a bit outclassed by your specific knowledge of this particular issue.
Dang D. Out-foxed again. I was going to go with a bread / cake analogy instead of beer / champagne, but that was too french revolutionish.
I wouldn't mind (much) an increasing tax on gasoline - say 10 cents a gallon per year for ten years to fund alternative fuel research and infrastructure building if it could be run compentently and honestly (something that the government isn't capable of doing).
You are smoking something illicit though IMHO, if you believe that $5.00 gas would be good for the economy in any kind of short run situation, although if we survived for a decade or so it would eventually be good for the economy.
I don't want to play tag anymore though. You can consider yourself winner, I'll admit I'm a bit outclassed by your specific knowledge of this particular issue.
Tombeis
Enlightened
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
Darell:
What would you drive to take a trip with your family to say...beautiful Cleveland Ohio to vist the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Darell:
What would you drive to take a trip with your family to say...beautiful Cleveland Ohio to vist the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
Darell
Flashaholic
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
[ QUOTE ]
Tombeis said:
Darell:
What would you drive to take a trip with your family to say...beautiful Cleveland Ohio to vist the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
[/ QUOTE ]
Short answer: I'd fly.
Long answer: I own a gasoline car. My EV range suits about 90% of my driving perfectly, but there are times when I need to travel outside that range. Cleveland would fall into that catagory (you can quote me on that), and I'd drive my Civic and suffer the 39mpg. Many EV drivers have only one car. If they need to drive a long distance, they rent a longer range vehicle, or borrow a friend's. As I've said before, purchasing a vehicle to suit the least-used, most extreme aspect of a given driving "need" is akin to buying a 20-lb sledge hammer as your only household beating tool. Some folks are happy commuting in an SUV so they can tow their ski boat to the lake three times a year. I'd rather commute in an EV and rent a truck the few times I need it. Most American family households have two vehicles. There is no reason that both vehicles need the ability to travel to the ends of the earth on a given day.
As usual, I invite questions like these on my EV Thread so that I don't keep cluttering up others' threads with the same ramblings....
[ QUOTE ]
Tombeis said:
Darell:
What would you drive to take a trip with your family to say...beautiful Cleveland Ohio to vist the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
[/ QUOTE ]
Short answer: I'd fly.
Long answer: I own a gasoline car. My EV range suits about 90% of my driving perfectly, but there are times when I need to travel outside that range. Cleveland would fall into that catagory (you can quote me on that), and I'd drive my Civic and suffer the 39mpg. Many EV drivers have only one car. If they need to drive a long distance, they rent a longer range vehicle, or borrow a friend's. As I've said before, purchasing a vehicle to suit the least-used, most extreme aspect of a given driving "need" is akin to buying a 20-lb sledge hammer as your only household beating tool. Some folks are happy commuting in an SUV so they can tow their ski boat to the lake three times a year. I'd rather commute in an EV and rent a truck the few times I need it. Most American family households have two vehicles. There is no reason that both vehicles need the ability to travel to the ends of the earth on a given day.
As usual, I invite questions like these on my EV Thread so that I don't keep cluttering up others' threads with the same ramblings....
Darell
Flashaholic
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:
I was going to go with a bread / cake analogy instead of beer / champagne, but that was too french revolutionish.[/quote
Yeay, but then I'd just want to eat it too...
[ QUOTE ]
You are smoking something illicit though IMHO, if you believe that $5.00 gas would be good for the economy in any kind of short run situation, although if we survived for a decade or so it would eventually be good for the economy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll just take one more little stab at this: Your gasoline is costing you more than $5/gallon already! I don't know who the "CTA" may be a front group for, but check THIS out briefly for some of the place where the costs of gasoline are hidden. This is for real - gasoline costs us all far more that what we pay at the pump. Even if we don't BUY gasoline! I would just like to see something closer to the real price reflected at the pump. If that happened, the push for alternative fuels would begin, and there would be no more money out of your pocket. But don't fear - something this radical and logical won't happen until long after we've been converted to dust.
Hey, I'm fully aware that raising the VISIBLE price of gasoline will never be popular. This is just one of the reasons why I probably won't run for president any time soon. But there is so much more going on here than meets the eye. AS you well know, few important issues are ever what they appear to be on the surface.
You're a good guy, Silv. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Thanks for humoring me and being a sport about this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:
I was going to go with a bread / cake analogy instead of beer / champagne, but that was too french revolutionish.[/quote
Yeay, but then I'd just want to eat it too...
[ QUOTE ]
You are smoking something illicit though IMHO, if you believe that $5.00 gas would be good for the economy in any kind of short run situation, although if we survived for a decade or so it would eventually be good for the economy.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll just take one more little stab at this: Your gasoline is costing you more than $5/gallon already! I don't know who the "CTA" may be a front group for, but check THIS out briefly for some of the place where the costs of gasoline are hidden. This is for real - gasoline costs us all far more that what we pay at the pump. Even if we don't BUY gasoline! I would just like to see something closer to the real price reflected at the pump. If that happened, the push for alternative fuels would begin, and there would be no more money out of your pocket. But don't fear - something this radical and logical won't happen until long after we've been converted to dust.
Hey, I'm fully aware that raising the VISIBLE price of gasoline will never be popular. This is just one of the reasons why I probably won't run for president any time soon. But there is so much more going on here than meets the eye. AS you well know, few important issues are ever what they appear to be on the surface.
You're a good guy, Silv. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Thanks for humoring me and being a sport about this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Re: How Much Is Petrol In Your Area?
Unfortunately, subsidies to gas would do that for most: create the perception that gas is still cheap and available... As much as I feel that the major auto manufacturers don't trust their alternative energy cars to sell, Americans indeed are still married to their cars.
There was a lot of buzz a few years ago about a high speed transit train that runs across the Central Valley, from Bakersfield to Sacramento and the Bay Area, and I believe it got killed or shelved simply because the forcasts for usage and initial cost was too high, and the propensity for the air industry to blow their top because they believe it would kill their own industry...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Things have to change at the rudimentary level (like paying $5.00 a gallon) to force people to choose alternative means of transportation or switch over to alternative energy powered vehicles...
Unfortunately, subsidies to gas would do that for most: create the perception that gas is still cheap and available... As much as I feel that the major auto manufacturers don't trust their alternative energy cars to sell, Americans indeed are still married to their cars.
There was a lot of buzz a few years ago about a high speed transit train that runs across the Central Valley, from Bakersfield to Sacramento and the Bay Area, and I believe it got killed or shelved simply because the forcasts for usage and initial cost was too high, and the propensity for the air industry to blow their top because they believe it would kill their own industry...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Things have to change at the rudimentary level (like paying $5.00 a gallon) to force people to choose alternative means of transportation or switch over to alternative energy powered vehicles...
