How you identify a high drain device?

roadwarrior

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I am curious to know how you guys identify a "high drain" device?

I own a radio scanner and I am mulling over whether it is justified for me price wise to go with Enenloop 2100 cycle or Eneloop Pros for everyday use....

I read somewhere that anything that uses up batteries within an hour of continuous use, is a high drain device and anything else would be considered a low drain device.

Any truth to that?

Thanks.
 

Kitchen Panda

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I am curious to know how you guys identify a "high drain" device?

I own a radio scanner and I am mulling over whether it is justified for me price wise to go with Enenloop 2100 cycle or Eneloop Pros for everyday use....

I read somewhere that anything that uses up batteries within an hour of continuous use, is a high drain device and anything else would be considered a low drain device.

Any truth to that?

Thanks.


I would agree with that. Anything that discharges a secondary battery in less than even 4 or 5 hours, I think qualifies as "high drain". Often portable batteries are rated at an 8 or 10 or 20 hour discharge capacity. "2500 mA-hr " in a battery spec sheet usually implies something more like 125 mA for 20 hours, instead of 2.5 amps for an hour - and if it can give you 25 amps for 6 minutes, it's a super premium design that's boasting about its ultra-high-rate discharge (and probably so specialized for the duty as to be not as useful for more moderate discharge applications.)

Bill
 

ChrisGarrett

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What load does your scanner place on a battery and what batteries do you normally use...alkalines?

For a NiMH battery, I'd say 3 amps and above would be a high drain on them and certainly would be for an alkaline battery.

Like Bill states, you've got remote controls, wall clocks and thermostats that don't do more than a couple hundred milliamps.

I've got a Marantz RC5000 (Philips Pronto) LCD remote and I go through NiMH quicker in that than I do on this wireless RF keyboard and mouse, so they're lower drain devices than the remote, but things are relative.

Alkaline<NiMH<ICR li-ion<hybrid li-ion<IMR li-ion<IFR li-ion...or something along those lines.

Chris
 

roadwarrior

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What load does your scanner place on a battery and what batteries do you normally use...alkalines?

For a NiMH battery, I'd say 3 amps and above would be a high drain on them and certainly would be for an alkaline battery.

Like Bill states, you've got remote controls, wall clocks and thermostats that don't do more than a couple hundred milliamps.

I've got a Marantz RC5000 (Philips Pronto) LCD remote and I go through NiMH quicker in that than I do on this wireless RF keyboard and mouse, so they're lower drain devices than the remote, but things are relative.

Alkaline<NiMH<ICR li-ion<hybrid li-ion<IMR li-ion<IFR li-ion...or something along those lines.

Chris

I don't know if this answers your question, but reading the owner's manual and looking at the scanner it requires 5V DC - 1000ma. Could not find anything detailing "load" on batteries.

I exclusively use 2300mAh NiMH batteries right now. Currently using a set of four CORUN 2300mAh that came with the unit and a set of four Energizer 2300mAh I purchased to rotate them out with.

My scanner is the Uniden HomePatrol 2.
 

ChrisGarrett

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I don't know if this answers your question, but reading the owner's manual and looking at the scanner it requires 5V DC - 1000ma. Could not find anything detailing "load" on batteries.

I exclusively use 2300mAh NiMH batteries right now. Currently using a set of four CORUN 2300mAh that came with the unit and a set of four Energizer 2300mAh I purchased to rotate them out with.

My scanner is the Uniden HomePatrol 2.

1A at 12vdc, or 12w. Assuming the batteries are in series, then 1.2*4=4.8v, so 12w/4.8v would be 2.5A to get to 12w, all things being equal. If you figure that NiMH are closer to 1.30v-1.35v when fully charged, you might get by with a bit less 'current.' If you're running them in a 2S2P configuration, then the current has to go up to make that 12w level, which could in fact, be more than what the unit actually needs.

Now, I'm an English Lit. and Communications major, so I don't vouch for any of the above, as being gospel.

I like the Energizer 2300s and we're confident that they're FDK (Eneloop) technology, although maybe not pure clones like the Duracell Ion Core batteries we love.

If you're charging them up often due to usage, you might go for the Eneloop Pros, for the slightly higher capacity.

Chris
 

roadwarrior

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1A at 12vdc, or 12w. Assuming the batteries are in series, then 1.2*4=4.8v, so 12w/4.8v would be 2.5A to get to 12w, all things being equal. If you figure that NiMH are closer to 1.30v-1.35v when fully charged, you might get by with a bit less 'current.' If you're running them in a 2S2P configuration, then the current has to go up to make that 12w level, which could in fact, be more than what the unit actually needs.

Now, I'm an English Lit. and Communications major, so I don't vouch for any of the above, as being gospel.

I like the Energizer 2300s and we're confident that they're FDK (Eneloop) technology, although maybe not pure clones like the Duracell Ion Core batteries we love.

If you're charging them up often due to usage, you might go for the Eneloop Pros, for the slightly higher capacity.

Chris

Due to being a noob to the world of rechargeable batteries and associated chargers, I have not kept track of how much use I get before needing to recharge. Today, I began to though. Put in the set of fully charged CORUNs and noted the time and date.

I do not run the scanner continuously 24/7, more like in intervals the of 2 to 6 hours a day. Maybe more on days I am at home all day. Either way, it does get shut off at some point.

I'll see how many days of usage I get from today on forward and that way I'll have better understanding of what my capacity need may be.

Thanks for the feedback Chris!
 

more_vampires

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So this thing isn't portable really? You could get a plugin DC power supply and straight skip the batteries for 100% runtime?

Some are fixed output, some are adjustable. It'd be simply a matter of hooking the leads and not blowing polarity (and your scanner.)

Just keep the batteries for power outages? Nice to have that option, too.
 

ChrisGarrett

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Due to being a noob to the world of rechargeable batteries and associated chargers, I have not kept track of how much use I get before needing to recharge. Today, I began to though. Put in the set of fully charged CORUNs and noted the time and date.

I do not run the scanner continuously 24/7, more like in intervals the of 2 to 6 hours a day. Maybe more on days I am at home all day. Either way, it does get shut off at some point.

I'll see how many days of usage I get from today on forward and that way I'll have better understanding of what my capacity need may be.

Thanks for the feedback Chris!

Much like flashlight geeks doing runtime tests with their lights and batteries, you should start tracking things and then swap in some of the better batteries, to see if they make a difference.

You also might want to invest $20 into some Energizer Lithium Ultimates and stash them away for a rainy day. Higher voltage at ~1.80v than alkalines and NiMH and they have a 500 year shelf life, or something like that.

Chris
 

roadwarrior

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So this thing isn't portable really? You could get a plugin DC power supply and straight skip the batteries for 100% runtime?

Some are fixed output, some are adjustable. It'd be simply a matter of hooking the leads and not blowing polarity (and your scanner.)

Just keep the batteries for power outages? Nice to have that option, too.

Yes, it is portable. Also some features will become disabled if charged batteries are not inside of it. So it works best if you have batteries in it at all times. It also uses the batteries as an anti-corruption fail safe for the installed SD card in case the unit abruptly loses DC power or gets improperly shutdown. It comes with a USB cable one can use to externally power the unit, however even when doing that, you need to have a charged set of batteries inserted if you want to use all its features. Which mainly are a record and playback feature for transmissions received.

Also, the drawback of using the USB cable all the time is reduced portability.
 
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sidecross

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Much like flashlight geeks doing runtime tests with their lights and batteries, you should start tracking things and then swap in some of the better batteries, to see if they make a difference.

You also might want to invest $20 into some Energizer Lithium Ultimates and stash them away for a rainy day. Higher voltage at ~1.80v than alkalines and NiMH and they have a 500 year shelf life, or something like that.

Chris
'Lithium iron disulfide batteries lose 0.6% per year at 21 C (room temperature)...' http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf
 

roadwarrior

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Much like flashlight geeks doing runtime tests with their lights and batteries, you should start tracking things and then swap in some of the better batteries, to see if they make a difference.

You also might want to invest $20 into some Energizer Lithium Ultimates and stash them away for a rainy day. Higher voltage at ~1.80v than alkalines and NiMH and they have a 500 year shelf life, or something like that.

Chris

I will look into it the Lithium batteries, however one thing I will have to be cognizant of is; the scanner is capable of in unit charging of NiMH batteries only, so if I accidentally hit the wrong button, I will have catastrophic results. :eek:

In case you are a wondering why I don't just charge my NiMH cells in the charger...the unit's charger is timer based, not smart and it is widely believed in scanning circles it is taboo to use the scanner to charge your batteries. There has been incidents of folks blowing up their scanners and or experiencing all manner of bad issues involving batteries getting overcharged in their scanners.

My experience here has also educated me to the benefits of using a smart charger to better prolong and condition batteries, so in unit charging is a no go for me.

At this point I am just trying to determine how much mah I need. Pros are pricey, but doable if I end up justifying the need. However, I don't want to spend the money if 2000mAh/2100 cycles Eneloops will do the job just as well or close to. Anything that can get me a few days to a week's use or maybe more if I am lucky would be great in my book. Not trying to get a set of batteries to last me a month....would be a awesome, but I understand there are always limitations to everything. :)
 
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sidecross

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I was joking, but I think that they're up over 20 years now, so I really don't think it matters if you're over 50. 20 years is 12%.

Chris
I am over 70 years old and I hope I not to expire until spring time. :)
 

more_vampires

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I was joking, but I think that they're up over 20 years now, so I really don't think it matters if you're over 50. 20 years is 12%.
Chris
I am over 70 years old and I hope I not to expire until spring time. :)

The cure for death has been "any day now" for quite some time. :) The cure for stupidity, well... I won't hold my breath on that one. Curing death is easier :)
 

MidnightDistortions

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Basically a test run is the best way to determine if your device is high drain or not. In actuality if you are finding yourself replacing the batteries quite often, more than you think you should that's when it would be a good idea to consider getting higher capacity batteries. They do have fewer cycles so you would have to keep that in mind. Some people don't mind the fewer cycles and extra costs for a little more run time. In a high drain flashlight it could mean having an extra 10+ minutes run time before the batteries go out so it could matter depending on the job you are using the flashlight for. Or in a weather radio, having that extra capacity could mean the difference between keeping the device running longer and the batteries running out when you need it the most.

I dedicated my only set of Duraloops to my TN4A light since the light uses a lot of mA and whenever i get the Nitecore EA41, i'll most likely buy a set of 8 Eneloop Pro and then another set of 8 of a different brand such as Duracell.
 

roadwarrior

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Basically a test run is the best way to determine if your device is high drain or not. In actuality if you are finding yourself replacing the batteries quite often, more than you think you should that's when it would be a good idea to consider getting higher capacity batteries. They do have fewer cycles so you would have to keep that in mind. Some people don't mind the fewer cycles and extra costs for a little more run time. In a high drain flashlight it could mean having an extra 10+ minutes run time before the batteries go out so it could matter depending on the job you are using the flashlight for. Or in a weather radio, having that extra capacity could mean the difference between keeping the device running longer and the batteries running out when you need it the most.

I dedicated my only set of Duraloops to my TN4A light since the light uses a lot of mA and whenever i get the Nitecore EA41, i'll most likely buy a set of 8 Eneloop Pro and then another set of 8 of a different brand such as Duracell.

Yeah, running my test now. But I am starting to lean towards the higher mAh Pros anyway, we'll see what my test produces. I am even thinking of maybe getting a set of Imedions to mix in too.

I would also prefer to go strictly LSD. As far as the cycles, it has been stated on here that while 2100 cycles sounds awesome on it's face, the reality is 500 cycles would "probably" be more than enough too in someone's lifetime, so cycle life is not that much of a concern with me when it comes to the Pros.

I did read Maha adversities a 1000 charges with their Imedions though and at 2400mAh I figure they are worth a look and try....
 

ChrisGarrett

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Yeah, running my test now. But I am starting to lean towards the higher mAh Pros anyway, we'll see what my test produces. I am even thinking of maybe getting a set of Imedions to mix in too.

I would also prefer to go strictly LSD. As far as the cycles, it has been stated on here that while 2100 cycles sounds awesome on it's face, the reality is 500 cycles would "probably" be more than enough too in someone's lifetime, so cycle life is not that much of a concern with me when it comes to the Pros.

I did read Maha adversities a 1000 charges with their Imedions though and at 2400mAh I figure they are worth a look and try....

I have 8 Imedions that I got back in early 2012 and while they're decent batteries, they're not exactly on par with either the Eneloops (standard/Pros) or the GP ReCyKos in my 1 year shootout.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ut-Eneloops-GP-ReCyKos-and-Imedions-it-s-done!

Just go to Target, Home Depot, ChinaMart, CVS, Walgreens or Toys R Us and buy the Duracell branded Ion Core AAs and be done with it. Toys R Us runs sales on them from time to time. $11 per quad is the standard MSRP.

Chris
 

roadwarrior

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I have 8 Imedions that I got back in early 2012 and while they're decent batteries, they're not exactly on par with either the Eneloops (standard/Pros) or the GP ReCyKos in my 1 year shootout.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ut-Eneloops-GP-ReCyKos-and-Imedions-it-s-done!

Just go to Target, Home Depot, ChinaMart, CVS, Walgreens or Toys R Us and buy the Duracell branded Ion Core AAs and be done with it. Toys R Us runs sales on them from time to time. $11 per quad is the standard MSRP.

Chris

Interesting test, thanks for sharing. Must say I am disappointed the Imedions were no bueno after a year compared to the Eneloops.


I spied some of those Duracells a few a days ago while I was at Wal-Mart, I have read on here they are basically "Duraloops", but correct me if I am wrong, they are not LSD correct?

Out of convenience and due to all the positive reviews I have seen on them here, I planned on picking up a quad at Wally World just because.

Based on your feedback, I may just end up scratching the Imedion idea all together and getting the Duraloop quad to try instead along with some Pros then...
 

ChrisGarrett

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Interesting test, thanks for sharing. Must say I am disappointed the Imedions were no bueno after a year compared to the Eneloops.


I spied some of those Duracells a few a days ago while I was at Wal-Mart, I have read on here they are basically "Duraloops", but correct me if I am wrong, they are not LSD correct?

Out of convenience and due to all the positive reviews I have seen on them here, I planned on picking up a quad at Wally World just because.

Based on your feedback, I may just end up scratching the Imedion idea all together and getting the Duraloop quad to try instead along with some Pros then...

Imedions are 'tweeners.' They held about 68% of their charge, but the GPs and Eneloops held closer to 83% and 86% IIRC. The Imedions do have a bit more capacity, but they're not 2400mAh, even out of the packs.

Panasonic owns the Eneloop brand, but FDK owns the technology and plant, again IIRC, so FDK is able to sell their batteries to other people, who then relabel them.

We're almost positive that Duracell relabeled Gen. 2 Eneloops, hence the term 'Duraloop.'

We're mostly sure that Duracell is relabeling the 2400mAh-2500mAh Eneloop XX/Pros as 'Ion Core.'

I had put a quad away for 1 year and was discharging them a couple of months back, so see what was left, but my power had a brown out and my Maha reset, so I lost that data, but voltages were up over 1.30v, so they would have probably done well.

Remember, the Eneloop XX/Pros are rated for 500 cycles and not the 2100 cycles that we see in the Gen. 4 standard Eneloops, but at 2500mAh vs. 2000mAh, they have 25% more capacity. They do self discharge a bit faster, but nowhere as fast as an HSD (high discharge battery.)

They're the safe bet right now and they're ubiquitous. Also, at $11 per quad, they're not that expensive.

Chris
 

roadwarrior

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Imedions are 'tweeners.' They held about 68% of their charge, but the GPs and Eneloops held closer to 83% and 86% IIRC. The Imedions do have a bit more capacity, but they're not 2400mAh, even out of the packs.

Panasonic owns the Eneloop brand, but FDK owns the technology and plant, again IIRC, so FDK is able to sell their batteries to other people, who then relabel them.

We're almost positive that Duracell relabeled Gen. 2 Eneloops, hence the term 'Duraloop.'

We're mostly sure that Duracell is relabeling the 2400mAh-2500mAh Eneloop XX/Pros as 'Ion Core.'

I had put a quad away for 1 year and was discharging them a couple of months back, so see what was left, but my power had a brown out and my Maha reset, so I lost that data, but voltages were up over 1.30v, so they would have probably done well.

Remember, the Eneloop XX/Pros are rated for 500 cycles and not the 2100 cycles that we see in the Gen. 4 standard Eneloops, but at 2500mAh vs. 2000mAh, they have 25% more capacity. They do self discharge a bit faster, but nowhere as fast as an HSD (high discharge battery.)

They're the safe bet right now and they're ubiquitous. Also, at $11 per quad, they're not that expensive.

Chris

Will definitely give the Ion Cores a try. Did some more checking on them after my last post and they are indeed advertised as LSD!!

As far the 500 cycle Pros, I am good with that. If I can get 5 to 10 years out of them I am happy.

This place :rock: for getting feedback and enableing people to make informed decisions!!!

I thank you much sir!
 
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