I am suddenly not pleased at all with Surefire.

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Marduke said:
That wasn't the question. On the product's info and spec page, where does it say that??



For a light that is heavily marketed as being tactical grade, when is 1 lumen ever sufficient??
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It doesn't have to say it there because it already has.

When is 50% sufficient?

When can you be sure 99.9% is sufficient?!?!
 
Surefire never states they use the brightest BINs, or specific BINs. The merely state...

"SureFire minimizes such product variability by purchasing LEDs only from the highest-quality bins."

"highest-quality" may not mean "brightest". Who knows what criteria they use to evaluate the quality level of the emitters they stock... it could be that tint or Vf rank higher on their "quality" scale than brightness.

This argument is moot without first understanding their criteria for quality.
 
maxa beam said:
It doesn't have to say it there because it already has.

When is 50% sufficient?

When can you be sure 99.9% is sufficient?!?!
Click to expand...


Actually, come to think of it, you're right. False advertising, small print to justify lies in the product specifications, yup, that's all fine :tinfoil:



Right, where did I put my sarcasm tags?
 
kramer5150 said:
Surefire never states they use the brightest BINs, or specific BINs. The merely state...

"SureFire minimizes such product variability by purchasing LEDs only from the highest-quality bins."

"highest-quality" may not mean "brightest". Who knows what criteria they use to evaluate the quality level of the emitters they stock... it could be that tint or Vf rank higher on their "quality" scale than brightness.

This argument is moot without first understanding their criteria for quality.
Click to expand...

Good point... I can go overseas and purchase an R2 for fairly cheap... but who says it's a good quality R2... who says it's even a real one (although with 4 bond wires it can't be too bad right??? When you buy Surefire, you are buying quality... just not always the most up to second stuff as they have to "test" it first... something else most manufacturers don't do/do enough of
 
kramer5150 said:
Surefire never states they use the brightest BINs, or specific BINs. The merely state...

"SureFire minimizes such product variability by purchasing LEDs only from the highest-quality bins."

"highest-quality" may not mean "brightest". Who knows what criteria they use to evaluate the quality level of the emitters they stock... it could be that tint or Vf rank higher on their "quality" scale than brightness.

This argument is moot without first understanding their criteria for quality.
Click to expand...

Well, judging from all the complaints of returned SF's due to green or purple horrible tints, I doubt that is their criteria. And Cree does not bin Vf. So that just leaves "highest-quality bins" to flux.

But I understand, we don't know what their definition of "highest-quality" means.
 
Marduke said:
Well, judging from all the complaints of returned SF's due to green or purple horrible tints, I doubt that is their criteria. And Cree does not bin Vf. So that just leaves "highest-quality bins" to flux.

But I understand, we don't know what their definition of "highest-quality" means.
Click to expand...


Horrible tints? Please, link me to percentile rates or a small study at least.
 
maxa beam said:
Horrible tints? Please, link me to percentile rates or a small study at least.
Click to expand...

Marduke is probably referring to all the posts on CPF from SF owners who had bad tints. I remember there were many on CPF with green tinted L1's. My L1 is greenish and has one of the worst tints of all my Cree lights, including my cheap Chinese ones.

Unlike some other flashlight makers, SF doesn't specify what tint bins they use, so again I felt what I got was acceptable. If Surefire had advertised WC tint bin, then what I got wouldn't be acceptable.
 
I just came up with a solution to the "runtime" problem... use protected batteries:crackup:... Forget candle mode as the battery will cut way before that...:poof:

Alright back to the OP's post... it stinks that you got a "bad" bin, but chances are Surefire isn't "cheating" you in the least as I'm sure the light still meets minimum requirements. Why you got an older bin... who knows? Could be the retailer had some older ones in stock or Surefire wanted to clear inventory... but does it really matter? I'm gifting two P4/Q2 lights to my family this year, however, do you think they care... not in the least. The bins are so close anyways and sometimes the tint is better. If you ended up with a bad tinted P4 with a high Vf then maybe I would say something, however, that would be very rare.

As to being "called out" on the tint problem: Only those who get bad tints are goign to say something... After all, how many happy owners are going to start a thread "I got a new Surefire with a GREAT tint..."
 
I don't what to look for to tell how many bond wires my Surefires have, but I think my two stage E2L must be one of the more efficient/brighter ones as the 3 lumen output seems brighter than the 5 lumen output on my E1B and E2DL.
 
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Oh guys, this thread is beyond funny. Grown up men fighting about bondwires and P4 or Q2 and whatnot.

It simply does not matter. The light does what it should do. It fulfills its mission. Why should anyone worry about minor details of a few bins up and down?
This is a CPF-specific tendency and it is ridiculous. It is far beyond reasonable.

Remember back then ... LuxIII ... T-bin vs. U-bin ... discussions about "best bin". 6 months later the Cree came and shattered all that important discussion and transformed it into what it should have been from the beginning ... nothing. Dust.

Same here.


__________________________________

Another note: while I agree that the runtime issue sucks indeed, and that SF once provided runtime graphs and no longer does, which also sucks, this is a different topic and considered off-topic in this thread which is about ... hm ... :nana: ... bondwires.
So let's leave the runtimes out of here and let's talk more about bondwires. 😀


bernie
 
SPECTER6 said:
I don't what to look for to tell how many bond wires my Surefires have, but I think my two stage E2L must be one of the more efficient/brighter ones as the 3 lumen output seems brighter than the 5 lumen output on my E1B and E2DL.
Click to expand...

Yea, it's not too easy, especially with Surefire's optic system, however, the LED should look like a little yellow square on top of a yellow or silver backing. There are tiny gold-colored wire running from the raised square to the plate. You need an overhead light in the room and then just face the head towards you and rotate it until to see somethign yellow being reflected out of the head. The wires are really small so it's tough, however, most of the time it can be done.

Oh yea, my Lux III only has 2 wires :-( Then again it is "only" a Lux III... Still, almost 100 lumens out of a little CR2 light is nothing ot laugh at (about a 900mah draw so you can figure it out those who want to prove me wrong becuase I probably am 😗)
 
Kiessling said:
Oh guys, this thread is beyond funny. Grown up men fighting about bondwires and P4 or Q2 and whatnot.

It simply does not matter. The light does what it should do. It fulfills its mission. Why should anyone worry about minor details of a few bins up and down?
This is a CPF-specific tendency and it is ridiculous. It is far beyond reasonable.

Remember back then ... LuxIII ... T-bin vs. U-bin ... discussions about "best bin". 6 months later the Cree came and shattered all that important discussion and transformed it into what it should have been from the beginning ... nothing. Dust.

Same here.


__________________________________

Another note: while I agree that the runtime issue sucks indeed, and that SF once provided runtime graphs and no longer does, which also sucks, this is a different topic and considered off-topic in this thread which is about ... hm ... :nana: ... bondwires.
So let's leave the runtimes out of here and let's talk more about bondwires. 😀


bernie
Click to expand...
QFT
 
Thanks for the help. I can unscrew the head of my E1B and see that it does have 4 wires, but I cannot unscrew the E2L and the window is slightly frosted and cannot see what's going on with LED very well.

But the previous posts do make a point. Why should it matter? Both light perform well for the tasks I use them for.
 
How about this point: The higher the bin on your LED the brighter it will be at a constant current (or should be). Thus, assuming the current supplied is the same to two different binned Surefires, the one with the "dimmer" bin will also have a much more desirable low. Although the M20 is my new best friend, low can be too bright at times, just like the low on many fenix's. This is in part due to the use of a higher bin at the same current..

Just another angle for the OP to consider (And enjoy not screwing up your night-adapted eyes because 5 vs 10 lumens is a Huge difference)
 
Marduke said:
3 bond wires means its a P2-P4 bin Cree, which is lower efficiency. This is interesting because SureFire advertises it uses "premium bins", which those have not been for at least 1.5 years.


Tint is not directly related to the flux bin, it's a separate ranking.
Click to expand...

Ah.. good to know. I'm going to have to check all my LEDs now :green:.
 
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