I have an HDS EDC Basic 60. What do I do with it?

[jon_slider]

There's something to be done there, option 4 or the momentary option.

I think I read something about that.. just a minute, let me get my google Fu warmed up

ok, ready? the answer is a Factory Reset, not option 4 afaict, it seems to have to do with Option 8 Tactical Momentary.. thanks for helping figure this out.. I suggest you read the manual and see what you think
https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/Legacy/NovaTac/NovaTacUsersGuide.pdf
lets solve this problem together

Here is what I think Ive learned so far, but have no hands on experience.. so I defer to those who do

this is the readers digest paragraph: IF Bigburly912's 120T does have the Tactical Momentary mode turned on, then YES, that does prevent him from enabling option 9, the fix is a factory-reset.

backstory
reading from the HDS manual:
"Option 8: Tactical Momentary
The Tactical Momentary option provides a pure momentary mode of operation – i.e., when the button is pushed the light is on and when the button is released the light is off. Therefore, you must make any desired configuration changes before enabling the Tactical Momentary option. If the Automatic Button Lock option is enabled, the button locks upon enabling the Tactical Momentary option and your light remains dark when the button is pressed. Further, upon releasing the button lock, your light remains off until the button is pressed again.
Note: performing a soft-reset will force the button to lock when both the Tactical Momentary option and the Automatic Button Lock option are enabled.
You disable the Tactical Momentary option by performing a factory-reset. The default setting is disabled.
The Tactical Momentary option is the eighth item in the Option menu and is identified by two short flashes followed by a long flash."


"Resetting Your Light
You must perform a reset to disable Tactical Momentary after it is enabled, to enable brightness level ramping and the Option menu after they are disabled, to restore factory settings or when you change the type of batteries you are using. A reset can also be used to regain control if your light ever gets into an unresponsive state."

"Factory-Reset - restores your light to factory settings, including disabling Tactical Momentary, enabling brightness level ramping, enabling the Option menu and detecting the type of batteries installed. Perform a soft-reset but while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 10 seconds until your light turns off. Identified by 5 seconds of bright light, 3 seconds of dim light and 2 more seconds of bright light. The settings are now restored to the factory defaults.
If you release the button during either of the brighter periods, your light displays the error flash sequence consisting of 6 rapid flashes and your light will not modify the settings."

"Soft-Reset – fix an unresponsive state or part of a higher level reset. If your light is working normally, turn your light on and unscrew the battery case until the light goes out, count to three and then screw the battery case back together. If your light is in an unresponsive state, remove the batteries for 2 minutes and then reinstall them. Identified by 1 second of dim light. Does not change your settings.

Battery-Detect-Reset – required to detect battery configuration changes. Perform a soft-reset but while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 5 seconds until your light dims. Release the button when your light dims. Identified by 5 seconds of bright light followed by dim light. Does not change your settings.
If you release the button during the brighter period, your light displays the error flash sequence consisting of 6 rapid flashes and your light will not detect the battery configuration."

 

[bigburly912]

Back to original problem. It will not factory reset that way because any “press” causes it to go into tactical strobe which was mentioned as being how the 120t is set up. We are back to step A

 

[jon_slider]

Back to original problem.

yes
did you try it exactly like this?:
"remove the batteries for 2 minutes and then reinstall them. Identified by 1 second of dim light.
...
while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 10 seconds until your light turns off

Identified by 5 seconds of bright light, 3 seconds of dim light and 2 more seconds of bright light. The settings are now restored to the factory defaults."

that would disable option 8, and then when you get into the programming menu with your 250 click, your enabling of Option 9 Setting should work

I hope

and or, Henry could probably do a Factory Reset to get it out of Tactical Momentary mode for you, .. then you can enable Option 9... and Bob's your Uncle.

 

[Lithium466]

I don't think Henry will fix any Novatac - he provides some info on them on his website, but I think that's all...technically he has nothing to do with Novatac.


I could be good to try to do a factory reset (removing batteries for 2 min before trying), if not, since Bigburly is able to enter the menu, he should be ok. However, I think the answer lies in the manual...but not the manual on the HDS website (which was rewritten a few years ago by Henry), in the manual of the original EDC flashlights :

Still option 4, I know there was something fishy with it So, Bigburly, when you are in the menu, first do something (enable or disable, I don't know, just change the settings) of the fourth option, then option 9 should give you customization.

I unfortunately don't have any Novatac on hand, and mine didn't weren't tactical so enabling customization was straightforward, but these lights can be a bit temperamental, especially the late models.

 

[bigburly912]

I’ve been doing everything by the manual. I haven’t tried the option 4 yet. It’s worth a shot. When I do the battery out for 2 minutes and put back in I start getting slow blinks of light. 8 blinks then it starts over. Only way to stop the blinking is unscrew the tailcap. Going to start videoing everything from now on.

 

[bigburly912]

I’ve seen “click through” the modes. I can not click through the modes. The light automatically flashes through them. I get 9 flashes once it hits program mode automatically. Going to try option 4 then option 9.

 

[bigburly912]

This one will be staying as a tactical model. I give up on it. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Lithium466]

Maybe one day....
Just kidding, enjoy it as it is

 

[bigburly912]

That’s the plan. No reason I can’t buy it’s brother and enjoy them both. : )

 

[Lithium466]

I have a classic and enjoy it, not it's like a Chinese-made 120P^^

 

[bigburly912]

Pretty sure this one is Chinese made. No serial number on it. Hogo said some of them were given the made in USA tailcap then assembled overseas.

 

[jon_slider]

Pretty sure this one is Chinese made. No serial number on it. Hogo said some of them were given the made in USA tailcap then assembled overseas.

Your 120T should be similar to the SPA Defense SPL-120 Tactical that I ordered recently (has not arrived yet).

note there are 3 different types of Resets on our model:

==
Instructions for 120T Resets:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-E-Models-CRACKED!-Back-Door-Easter-egg-found
Soft-Reset – fix an unresponsive state or part of a higher level reset. If your light is working normally, turn your light on and unscrew the battery case until the light goes out, count to three and then screw the battery case back together. If your light is in an unresponsive state, remove the batteries for 2 minutes and then reinstall them. Identified by 1 second of dim light. Does not change your settings.

Battery-Detect-Reset – required to detect battery configuration changes. Perform a soft-reset but while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 5 seconds until your light dims. Release the button when your light dims. Identified by 5 seconds of bright light followed by dim light. Does not change your settings.

If you release the button during the brighter period, your light displays the error flash sequence consisting of 6 rapid flashes and your light will not detect the battery configuration.

If there is insufficient power to run your light at full power there is also insufficient power to safely remember the detected battery configuration. When there is insufficient power to remember the detected battery configuration, you will see two seconds of very rapid flashing. This also indicates that the battery configuration has not been properly detected and damage may occur to rechargeable batteries. Only fully charged rechargeable battery configurations can be properly detected.

Factory-Reset - restores your light to factory settings, including disabling Tactical Momentary, enabling brightness level ramping, enabling the Option menu and detecting the type of batteries installed. Perform a soft-reset but while the dim light is on, press and hold the button for 10 seconds until your light turns off. Identified by 5 seconds of bright light, 3 seconds of dim light and 2 more seconds of bright light. The settings are now restored to the factory defaults.
==

I understand that our 120T models have momentary strobe on press, and that you said that is preventing you from doing a factory reset. I will let you know if I overcome that problem.

My guess is the trick to getting the Factory reset to work is to start pressing the button while the 1 Second of dim light happens during the Soft Reset and hold for 10 seconds.

If you try this please let us know if it works.
Note that a Factory Reset Breaks the Unlock for Customization of the mode Programming and you will need to go back through the 250 clicks to regain access to the ramping menu so that the 120T can be configured as a 120P.

 

[Lithium466]

Perfectly explained.
Note that the light is able to sense (even if it's not officially in the manual) that you are switching from a CR123A primary to a 16340 - not the contrary (you'll need a battery reset). Bonus is you can open the battery compartment with a half discharged 16340 without after effect. Also as always with Novatacs, soft resets are your friends!

Jon you might want a 18650 battery tube with your Novatac :devil:

 

[jon_slider]

Perfectly explained.
Note that the light is able to sense (even if it's not officially in the manual) that you are switching from a CR123A primary to a 16340 - not the contrary (you'll need a battery reset). Bonus is you can open the battery compartment with a half discharged 16340 without after effect.

thank you very much for the education
can you find any supporting evidence for that belief?
I ask with due respect, because this quote suggests otherwise,
"damage may occur to rechargeable batteries. Only fully charged rechargeable battery configurations can be properly detected."

it implies that a light that was set to detect CR123 voltage will bypass overdischarge protection that is built into the Novatac, when using UNprotected 16340, such as IMR chemistry.

Although for me that is a non issue, since I use Protected 16340 (I do not use UNprotected IMR), so even IF the light mistakes my 16340 as a Primary, the Protection in the 16340 will shut the light off.. I will do some drain testing after I receive the Novatac SPL-120T and report back..

 

[Lithium466]

Actually I just experienced it on my Novatac Classic, if it's set to be used with CR123A and you put a 16340 in it (fully charged), even without performing the battery detect reset, if you try to revert to a CR123A, it will act as if the battery is depleted (normal behavior). As long as there is no battery reset done, the light will continue to believe you put a 16340 in it, and act accordingly, even if you open the battery compartment.

Now if you put a discharged or half discharged 16340 after having use CR123A, I can't say what will happen...worst case the depleted 16340 will be recognized as a CR123A and no discharge protection will occur, hence the warning in the manual. I'm eager to hear about the drain testing! It's easier to measure on the Novatac, with the giant contact/spring.

(also note that my light is a Chinese made, late production Novatac. I'm pretty sure there was some tweaking involved with the circuit, since it's supposed to be a 3V light only ! It would be interesting to try with the old HDS Basic/Ultimate^^)

 

[jon_slider]

thank you very much for sharing your first hand experience
my takeaway from what I read above is that inserting a fully charged 16340 into a chinese Novatac Classic, resets the battery detection to LiIon automatically.. cool!

also interesting to learn that your Novatac Classic has a 3v limit... are you saying you run LiIon in it anyway, and nothing melted?
if so, Im not sure I believe the 3v limit on your Novatac Classic... it could be a documentation error

I just checked, and the ebay ad for some SPL-120 models says
SPA Defense SPL-120 Army Weapon Light Kit

Technical Specifications:

Input Voltage: 1.8V to 4.5V
Regulation: Constant Power Regulation
Battery: 1xCR 1233A or LI-ION

note that the HDS Legacy page for the Novatac 120P says
"These lights are very similar to the EDC Ultimate with the following significant changes: 1) constant current controller - NOT constant power"

I believe Henry is pointing out a documentation error regarding the type of regulation.. not sure

and, Im not sure I understand the pros and cons of the two types of regulation, Constant Power or Constant Current.. For me it all comes down to whether or not I can see flicker, and Ive been warned I will.. so.. why did I buy a 120T? Impulse buying..

 

[Lithium466]

Haha, officially it's 3V only (it came with a 2AA battery tube), but it's been discussed that Novatac wasn't actually able to implement real modifications to the circuits (discutable, there's a 2 CR123A Novatac after all!) after Henry left, so the classic should be able to handle a 16340.
So I tried, and it works! All levels except max are ok, max becomes very very bright, brighter than what the modded led I put inside (Osram Oslon ssl80 high CRI) can handle (it turns purplish after a few seconds). I guess the key factor here is the led Vf...I havent experimented more.
If there are no real difference in the circuit, that could possibly mean 2x CR123A could be ok...after all the old HDS ultimate and basic were able to handle them! I'm not saying it's a fact, just that, maybe...but I'm not going to try!

As for the regulation, I think I've seen the answer on the HDS website's faq...it'll be better than if I try to explain something I don't fully understand! Novatac are supposed to be constant current, not power (that's what is in my original manual at least).
If you regret your buy, sell it to me But I'm sure you'll like it, it's smaller and lighter than the current HDS models. The flicker is just a lottery, if it's there, just change mode and it might disappear, it's a software bug, not a hardware limitation Just find yourself a 18650 tube, and enjoy!

 

[jon_slider]

Novatac are supposed to be constant current, not power (that's wha5 is in my original manual at least).
...
As for the regulation, I think I've seen the answer on the HDS website's faq

good, then I will assume the ebay info for the SPL-120 is wrong
constant current is not supposed to flicker, it only Ripples.. lol

re the HDS FAQ
Constant power regulation maintains a constant amount of power to the LED and hence keeps the light output constant as the battery is consumed.
…
We have added further sophistication to our regulation circuits to allow multiple brightness settings, reduced tint changes when dimming the LED, regulation of the LED temperature for higher efficiency, higher reliability and safety, detection and protection of rechargeable batteries and graceful step downs in brightness as the battery is used up so you have plenty of warning allowing you time to find a safe place to change batteries

Im still unclear what constant power does, but Im fine with constant current IF i cannot see it Ripple

here are some constant current lights that have Ripple that my camera can see, but I almost never notice it with my naked eyes on the Olights which Im told oscillate at something just under 2000 hz


For 50% of users, visible PWM is 200 hz, selfbuilt claims he can see it, but also says he cant see 300 hz, fwiw Malkoff uses 312 hz PWM on the multi mode MDC lights, and he told me that "most people" cant see it). maukka also reports being able to "see" the Flicker from the Constant Current Ripple of the Olight moonlight level, but he and I are not "most people".

 

[Lithium466]

These Olight are really neat!
Whenthe Novatac decides to work as it should on the lowest level, you might be able to see some flickering if you're sensitive to it (I'm not), but when it decides it will flicker, you can't miss it.
Even on the other modes, your light meter will be able to tell you the output isn't perfectly constant.

Don't forget these light were conceived 10 years ago, they are IMO really nice for what they are, but compared to the Olight, or any Zebralight, they certainly show their age, not in the features or options available, more on how it's implemented and their "feel". When you switch from a modern HDS to a Novatac to a HDS Ultimate, you can "feel" the improvements in the modern design. On the paper, there's not much that changed (if you put the same led, of course), but in real life changes are there. That said, I'm still enjoying these lights, put a more modern led in them, and they are ready for the next ten years, or probably more!