im new so thought id try out here

[Your-MUM]

ok hello.

I'm nick Thomson and i have a very interesting protect.

i am working in London and i have to put 40 led light in a wood handrail,

ill get my head round this forum and then post up some pictures and details.

i hope to put something back into this place as well as take ok

I HAVE NO TEK abilities ie i know that led stands for light emitting diode and thats about it. i'm a furniture restorer

 

[DM51]

Welcome to CPF 🙂

I'm going to move your post to our Fixed Lighting section, as that is probably the appropriate place for it. We have some helpful members here who may have suggestions for you.

 

[Your-MUM]

lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

hello i need help and guidance please.

I work for www.nicholas-jones.co.uk

we have a project in London that has just got the go ahead.

It is for 2 staircases with handrail on made from beech wood and French polished black. this we can do with ease

We have everything covered except there are 40 glass diamonds in the top of the handrail and this need to be lit.

i will post up pictures from Photobucket to help.

what im after is advice, contacts or if you want the job a price. (if im allowed to put that up here)

This is not a job just to last a few years but has to last, i CANT post up for who it is for but what i can say is in the coming years heads of state and royalty past and present will be touching this thing, now theres a thought.

hope this is ok

 

[Norm]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

Please keep all your posts on this topic in the one thread.
I've merged your two threads.
Norm

 

[Harold_B]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

If this is an installation where you have been contracted to deliver a specific end result then what is perfectly acceptable for the hobbyist may not be acceptable for the surrounding archetecture. Not that there isn't a deep well of information to be had here, I'm just suggesting that if your business and reputation relies on the outcome of the job then you might insist on contracting with a photonics or lighting engineering company. They should be able to provide CAD models, simulations and prototypes prior to cutting any holes.

 

[Your-MUM]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

good point Harold B, but we have to install this as we fit the handrail,

we are supplying the hole package , its just this is new to us and it is something we want to do more of this in the future, Mr Jones son is a fully quantified electrician and can sign the work off to UK building regs.

i need a little help as in what is a good lasting led. how bright we might need, what wire to use and conectore . i know its like asking you to make a hand rail, but i have in the past found forums the best place to ask,

so my question is this what is the 1st question i should ask

 

[Harold_B]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

I think the first question to be asked is what do you want the light to do?
How much light, what color and if white, what color temperature?
Are the diamonds diffuse?
What kind of glass and are they solid or is it a surface (shell)?
Will the LEDs always be on when the building is occupied and what will be the highest ambient temperature?
What is the possibility of placing heat sinking material adjacent to the LED within the handrail and how well conceiled does it have to be?
Will the entire rail be enclosed so that wires, etc cannot be seen from the lower staircase?
Are there restrictions for power usage and prefered voltages?

 

[Ken_McE]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

Since Nicholas-Jones is building it I am going to assume that Your-Mum can easily run concealed wires inside the handrail to provide the power. All it would take is a router to run a groove along the length of the rail. I will also assume that since it is getting built into a house that they can tap into mains power (240 volt AC I assume) and use that to power a dedicated current regulated LED driver. This driver could supply any power they want.

Do you want them to be able to light in different colors? If so, you'd need to build this in up front. It's not that much more complicated. You just run a few extra conductors and have an RGB LED under each diamond. Making the lights dimmable, probably with a concealed switch under one end of the rail is easy and usefull, you should include this ability.

These glass diamonds, can they be popped out at some time in the future if you want to replace an LED? If not, the LEDs should be run at very low power levels so as to have the maximum life expectancy.

As long as you are wiring this up anyhow, consider running a second line of LEDs along the bottom of the rail so they shine down on the stairs. If the building has emergency lighting they would be tied into the emergency lighting system. If not, they become available to serve as mood lights or a nightlight.

It sounds to me like there will be nothing available as a heat sink (of course I don't know what a French polished black is). This suggests to me that each of the diodes must be less than one watt in power.

I won't repeat Harold_B's questions, but look forwards to your answers. They are highly relevant to your design.

 

[deadrx7conv]

How bright does it need to be?

If you're just trying to light up the glass-diamond, then your holiday LED string of lights should work fine. Go out and buy a 50-white-LED string of Christmas tree lights or 100-LED string(double up) and test them. (wrong time of the year)

 

[purduephotog]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

It sounds to me like there will be nothing available as a heat sink (of course I don't know what a French polished black is). This suggests to me that each of the diodes must be less than one watt in power.

I won't repeat Harold_B's questions, but look forwards to your answers. They are highly relevant to your design.

Actually the whole bottom of the rail could be a heat sink- a 1/2" deep channel could be embedded and countersunk screws placed into the wood. Then the diamonds have an LED optically cemented and shining up while a small recessed lot holds another LED to shine down. Simple, hidden, and not that much more in terms of cost.

The spline curves can be made from plate and cut with waterjet.

 

[Ken_McE]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

Actually the whole bottom of the rail could be a heat sink- a 1/2" deep channel could be embedded and countersunk screws placed into the wood.

I'm not understanding where the heat is supposed to go. Are you suggesting he embed metal into the wood?

 

[jason 77]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

I'm not understanding where the heat is supposed to go. Are you suggesting he embed metal into the wood?

I think he was talking about a bar of aluminum along the entire rails length that would have the LEDs attached to it, and then the actual wooden rail would go on top of that and get secured to the aluminum bar. The bar would be one big heat sink that would have the bottom side of it exposed to air.....

 

[purduephotog]

Re: lighting a wooden curved handrail HELP

I think he was talking about a bar of aluminum along the entire rails length that would have the LEDs attached to it, and then the actual wooden rail would go on top of that and get secured to the aluminum bar. The bar would be one big heat sink that would have the bottom side of it exposed to air.....

yes.

You mill a channel in the wood- wood for all purposes on the outside. Use silicone to seal/handle expansion differences. Cut aluminum in lengths with gaps to prevent any warping during moisture and/or rapid heat change events- 1 foot secured with 1 screw should do.

You could even mini-fin the bar stock if you wanted to help release heat.