Immersion Of e2e w/Washer + New Washer Substitute

ygbsm

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Just got and installed the washer for the o-ring on the e2e. SF CS sent me two and a replacement e2e clip for the one I had that snapped at the bend.

I installed the washer and then submerged the e2e -- no leakage and the light works great fully submerged.
 

tkl

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that's good to hear as i have a washer on the way as well. i won't be submerging my lights but i don't want to worry if i get caught in the rain.

this problem was well known yet the E2E i got just a few weeks ago still suffered from this blunder.

thanks for the heads up.
smile.gif
 

this_is_nascar

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Can someone take a picture of the nylon ring installed? What the procedure for installing it?

I assume it something like:

1. Unscrew bezel.
2. Remove O-Ring.
3. Put on nylon ring.
4. Put on O-Ring.
5. Put on Bezel.

Is this accurate?
 

ygbsm

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Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
Can someone take a picture of the nylon ring installed? What the procedure for installing it?

I assume it something like:

1. Unscrew bezel.
2. Remove O-Ring.
3. Put on nylon ring.
4. Put on O-Ring.
5. Put on Bezel.

Is this accurate?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's how I did it -- though some who know me might say that's scant guarantee it's the correct procedure. I don't have any pictures, however. It's a very thin somewhat flexible washer, but it does appear to keep the o-ring from expanding into the pocket clip channel.
 

ygbsm

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Originally posted by tkl:
i won't be submerging my lights but i don't want to worry if i get caught in the rain.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Same worry here. I was a bit reluctant to submerge the light given some of the experience others have apparently had -- my major concern with immersion was leakage from the lens/bezel joint, but luckily no problems with that.

They got the rings and the replacement clip to me pretty rapidly.
 

this_is_nascar

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I guess it doesn't matter which side goes on first, correct? I have the nylon washers, but haven't the time to put them on. As thin as they appear, I don't understand what function they actually serve.
 

Size15's

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No, not lucky it didn't leak.
You're unlucky if it does leak.
It is designed not to leak.

I have photos of the washer I will email to anyone who wants them.

Respectfully,

Al
 

tkl

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al, would you say the first few thousand E2E's were unlucky?
grin.gif
 

nihraguk

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the nylon washer only helps to stop leakages at the bezel-barrel juncture, but if your E2e/E2o is leaking through the lens seal, you'll need a new bezel. i think surefire has a design that shouldn't leak in theory (hot-glueing is pretty water proof), but they have some QC issues they should sort out. so far i've been very unlucky though...the E2e and M2 i have both leak through the hot-glued lens seal.
 

Size15's

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tkl, to you, yes, to everyone else who hasn't reported any issues or problems that I'm aware of, no!

nihraguk, it's the atmosphere beyond the USA. It's known in the past to be unlucky.

I recall someone being told that with regards to flashlights a while back. May even have been a Brit regarding his SureFire(!)

Al
wink.gif
 

tkl

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Originally posted by Size15s:
tkl, to you, yes, to everyone else who hasn't reported any issues or problems that I'm aware of, no!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you're kidding right? the o-ring squishing out of the new clip attatchment on the elite series is well known. that's why sf is giving out washers for free to correct their engineering mistake.
 

Size15's

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Why would I be kidding? It doesn't happen on all E elite bodies, only those batches that have a slightly wider o-ring location channel.
And it is certainly not well known. On CPF to a few hundred members perhaps. The E Series is one of SureFire's best selling models.
I only know of this issue through CPF. It's not been highlighted anywhere else on discussion boards I've searched for SureFire related posts.

These are my E elites. I have no squishing out on any of them.

E2e A1097 has a washer and has a slightly wider 0-ring location channel.
E2e A02372 doesn't & doesn't have squishing.
E1e A00268 doesn't & doesn't have squishing.
E1e A01373 doesn't & doesn't have squishing.
E2e A0011X doesn't & doesn't have squishing.

As for an engineering mistake, how do you know?
Perhaps it was due to washers not being put all thoses E Series Elite bodies that were made with the slightly wider o-ring location channel? Still a mistake granted, but it may not be down to engineering. It could be a QC issue.

tkl, I'll email you photos showing the different channels if you would like?

Respectfully,

Al
 

APW

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One of my E2e with original bezel works fine immersed in water but when attached to KL1 the water leaks through the o-ring. So the bezel itself could be a problem.

How do I know it?
I bravely did a test on waterproofness by immersing the KL1 on E2e switched on into a bowl of water. Ok, that's how I found out it leaks through KL1 bezel but not on the original bezel. I left it for 20 minutes and then I found out the water leaks through the o-ring, into the batteries into the back of the KL1 into the Luxeon LED - YA through the electronics, and then into the Optic's area. Unscrewed the bezel, the water dripped out through the back of KL1 - serious - big trouble! Shook as hard as I could to get rid of as much water as I can.

Put it under the weak sun of October! Try to dry it naturally, but I am so impatient that I used hair dryer to heat up the KL1 to a temperauture unbearable to touch and turned off. I can see water vapour in the Optic...and kept turning on the KL1 to the LED heat up the optic area to force the water vapour out via the back.... this go on and on under the sun and hair dryer and KL1 on many many times for almost 2 days and finally it was completely dry and good as new since I have the other KL1 to compare the brightness. I am afraid that the electronics might be fried but it turns out to be completely fine.

I have ordered some nylon washers, hope it helps
 

Carpe Diem

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Hi ygbsm, and everyone else posting...

I would not have known about these nylon washers were it not for you guys. I just asked for some from Surefire CS.

Fellow CPF`ers...coming through once again.

Thank you!

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nihraguk

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Al: so long as surefire keeps up with their exellent customer service i'm satisfied
wink.gif
i wish they still used airmail though...my replacement P60 came in a week but the E2e bezel took a month and i suspect they sent the M2 bezel by surface mail as well. despite my M2 being a bit leaky i'm now carrying it everyday either in my pocket or bag. some may complain about the heft of the M2 but to me it makes the M2 feel very....reassuring, if that's the way to put it
smile.gif
 

tkl

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It doesn't happen on all E elite bodies, only those batches that have a slightly wider o-ring location channel.
[/QB]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my mistake, i thought it was affecting all eite series with the new clip. i assume they are tooling them differently to fix it?
 

Size15's

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Perhaps it's not even the channel. I was photographing the two channels and notice that it's actually the threads that are longer on the version that came with a washer.

Al
 

Quickbeam

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Wow. I'm still amazed that for the price the Surefire line of products aren't guaranteed watertight. I mean, manufacturers that sell lghts that cost a fraction of the Surefires are able to make their products watertight, tailcap switches, bezels, and everything, without having to "special order" a watertight tested light. Hearing that a $80 E2e leaks water seems inexcusable, let alone a $150 M2!. It may be able to saw "lesser" aluminum lights in half with it's anodized knurling, but it can't be used underwater? Does anyone else find this a serious failing in design considering how "great" the SF line is supposed to be? I'd expect them to be environmentally "bulletproof" for the cost...

Just my 2¢
 

nihraguk

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quickbeam: i agree....i was definitely quite dissapointed that the E2e and my M2 leaked on me. anyway, surefire expects their lights to be waterproof as well, so if yours leaks they will replace the offending part without asking any questions.

so far the only problems with leaking surefires are associated with either the E2e O-ring squeeze problem or an improperly wet-glued pyrex lens bezel. the O-ring squeeze problem is due to a design flaw, which currently has a fix which surefire will provide you with free of charge.

sealing the pyrex bezels with wet glue is a less straightforward way as opposed to using an O-ring like other cheaper but waterproof lights, but its definitely a more effective method if done correctly. the advantage of a wet-glued bezel is that its maintenance free, in that you don't have to maintain the O-ring and make sure it doesn't dry out, etc. if you've been to an aquatic zoo, you'll see that the tanks which hold in tons of water are sealed in a similar way, and they don't leak one drop, and no maintainence is required for the seals (as far as i know).

i'm not sure how old my M2 is, but i recall Al mentioning that refinements have been made to the M2's bezel over time to make it more reliably waterproof. i suspect the bezel of my M2 might have been manufactured prior to these improvements in design or manufacturing process. btw, my M2's serial number is A13966, so if anyone has an idea of how old it is, do let me know. anyway, i'm assuming the M2 bezel that is being sent to me will have all the latest design refinements, and it should be waterproof within all reasonable expectations, and that should solve the problem.

the cost of surefires are extremely high for flashlights, but i've chosen to rationalize it by factoring in the excellent customer service. you might have a 7 year old 6P, and surefire would still support you free of charge if it gives any problems. the extra cost you pay for a surefire goes a long long way and will probably last as long as surefire is still around
smile.gif
i just hope people don't abuse the system, since that would continually drive up the cost of surefire products in future. it would be kinda reminiscent of the british welfare system if that happened i think.
 
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