StarHalo
Flashaholic
What battery type can withstand 140+ F degrees?
IMR Setups
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What battery type can withstand 140+ F degrees?
Nite
Enlightened
I thought laptop batteries, the one under the hood of my car, etc
Nite
Enlightened
I will quote my source but I will not cite him without permission, which I just asked for.
Lets just say he is a very very reliable source. An expert in the field.
"I am a bit nervous about them, because if you just leave them running they ruin the batteries."
-Snip edit-
"The problem is that the IMR cells are not very temperature resistant. If they get too hot they break and the fluid leaks out, ruining them."
signed by : my sister's boyfriend at 31 Flavors
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Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
See this data sheet for the IMR18650E. Might clear up a few things, or bring up some issues. http://www.molienergy.com/pdf/IMR18650E.pdf
Bill
Bill
naked2
Enlightened
Nice link; is that what's under AW's red label, or are his from a different mfr.?
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
Not sure, but capacity specs are the same. It would be good if AW used those cells, made by a reputable company. 140F is recommended discharge temperature limit, but probably some built in leeway there.
Bill
naked2
Enlightened
Are those cells available directly from that company?
Thanks, Tony
Thanks, Tony
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
Not sure, but go ahead and do a google and see what you come up with. I'm hitting the sack.
Bill
Bill
mdocod
Flashaholic
The cells AW is using are probably not made by Emoli. In fact, AWs cells test out with higher capacity than the Emoli brand, based on LuxLuthor's testing. It also wouldn't make much sense to have Molicel (in canada) make cells for someone who has contacts in asia.
All lithium based batteries have an max. operating temp. of 60 degree C. You will find the same operating temp. spec. on Emoli, A123, Sanyo, Samsung batteries with LiCo / LiFePO4 / LiMn chemistries. The electrolyte will start to degrade when exceeding the max. operating temp. Reaching higher temperature conditions ( either from external sources or cell discharging / charging ), the liquid electrolyte will expand and pressure will build up inside the cell. When the pressure build up is approaching the safety threshold, the safety valve will disconnect separating the anode / cathode ( cell dies showing 0 Volt ). If the pressure keeps rising, the laser welded vent will open and release gas/electrolyte to prevent an explosion. The common observation you 'll see is leaking of electrolyte when a vent occurs. If it was a mild vent, leaking may come after a day or two.
A safety vent/ mechanical thermal protection is a standard feature of all my lithium secondary batteries.
The IMR cells will not reach above 60 degree C even when discharged @ 8 - 10C by themselves. The heat from outside sources such as lamp, lamp assembly spring contact or flashlight body is something you may have to consider when using them in a high power incan light that will generate tremendous amount of heat.
In a lab regulated oven test, the safety disconnect triggers at 80 degree C after 3 minutes. The vent opens at 100 degree C after 5 minutes.
The storage temperature range of -20 to 25 degree C ( 40% charged ) is the optimum where you 'll recover 90+% capacity after 1 year of storage. Storing at 40 degree C will get you ~80% capacity after 1 year. At 60 degree C, you 'll get ~70% after 1 year.
A safety vent/ mechanical thermal protection is a standard feature of all my lithium secondary batteries.
The IMR cells will not reach above 60 degree C even when discharged @ 8 - 10C by themselves. The heat from outside sources such as lamp, lamp assembly spring contact or flashlight body is something you may have to consider when using them in a high power incan light that will generate tremendous amount of heat.
In a lab regulated oven test, the safety disconnect triggers at 80 degree C after 3 minutes. The vent opens at 100 degree C after 5 minutes.
The storage temperature range of -20 to 25 degree C ( 40% charged ) is the optimum where you 'll recover 90+% capacity after 1 year of storage. Storing at 40 degree C will get you ~80% capacity after 1 year. At 60 degree C, you 'll get ~70% after 1 year.
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Thank you very much for explaining this AW.
I was hoping the lab tests actually used higher temperatures for testing but you never know. Thank you for explaining the storage temp as well. I thought it was for the explosion prevention from heat, not related to the stored power and the rate of disscharge.
I was hoping the lab tests actually used higher temperatures for testing but you never know. Thank you for explaining the storage temp as well. I thought it was for the explosion prevention from heat, not related to the stored power and the rate of disscharge.
Nite
Enlightened
Dont AWs cells have a higher MAH reserve of power? higher than pictured Emoli
oh yeah you said they do in testing, and i see higher in specs
thanks MD
thanks AW.
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mdocod
Flashaholic
Thanks for the update on that AW, that clears a lot up 🙂
OrlandoLights
Newly Enlightened
IMR 16340 Setups, which bulbs?
The 6P got here yesterday, I immediately
ed the P60 bulb. Guess it can't handle 2 x 16340.😳 Luckily, the IMR-9 from LF is on the way.
I would like to get the FiveMega module with some bulbs, but I can't figure out which ones to get for 2 x IMR 16340 in a 6P. Can someone suggest which bulbs of his to get, or any others that are 1.5 (I think I have the size right) that would work with this combination?
The 6P got here yesterday, I immediately
ed the P60 bulb. Guess it can't handle 2 x 16340.😳 Luckily, the IMR-9 from LF is on the way. I would like to get the FiveMega module with some bulbs, but I can't figure out which ones to get for 2 x IMR 16340 in a 6P. Can someone suggest which bulbs of his to get, or any others that are 1.5 (I think I have the size right) that would work with this combination?
Bullzeyebill
Flashaholic
Re: IMR 16340 Setups, which bulbs?
Search for Fivemega's threads. Click on his user name and go to statistics and click on threads. You will find his selling threads. Saying this to encourage you to look for info on CPF.
Bill
The 6P got here yesterday, I immediately
I would like to get the FiveMega module with some bulbs, but I can't figure out which ones to get for 2 x IMR 16340 in a 6P. Can someone suggest which bulbs of his to get, or any others that are 1.5 (I think I have the size right) that would work with this combination?
Search for Fivemega's threads. Click on his user name and go to statistics and click on threads. You will find his selling threads. Saying this to encourage you to look for info on CPF.
Bill
OrlandoLights
Newly Enlightened
Re: IMR 16340 Setups, which bulbs?
Thanks for the encouragement, Bill. I've had FiveMega's sales thread bookmarked, and have been following it, for a week or so. Also have been following mdocod's thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536
Maybe I overlooked something, or just don't understand the terminology being used (probable, since I'm new to Incans), but I am still unclear about how to know what bulbs of FiveMega's or other 1.5 bulbs to get for a 6P and 2 x IMR 16340. Is there an IMR 16340 and 1.5 bulb compatibility list somewhere? I am assuming I can't go by which 1.5 bulbs work with regular 123s, since IMRs are high-drain.
Thanks for the encouragement, Bill. I've had FiveMega's sales thread bookmarked, and have been following it, for a week or so. Also have been following mdocod's thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536
Maybe I overlooked something, or just don't understand the terminology being used (probable, since I'm new to Incans), but I am still unclear about how to know what bulbs of FiveMega's or other 1.5 bulbs to get for a 6P and 2 x IMR 16340. Is there an IMR 16340 and 1.5 bulb compatibility list somewhere? I am assuming I can't go by which 1.5 bulbs work with regular 123s, since IMRs are high-drain.
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naked2
Enlightened
I know Bill want's you to look, but I can't help myself! For a 6P and 2x IMR16340 and a FM D26 bi pin socket, you can't do any better than a FM 1794 bulb. The only other thing that might have more output is the just released IMR-9 from Lumens Factory (where the author of this thread is from!).
The reason I say might, is that I haven't seen any reviews of it yet.
The reason I say might, is that I haven't seen any reviews of it yet.
OrlandoLights
Newly Enlightened
Thanks naked2, very helpful. Thought the FM 1794 would take more power than I'm using, but I'll try that one. Edit: I now see that I had misread posts #94-#104 on this thread, where there was a mix-up about 18650 and 16340 with the 1794. Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes, I know Bill wants me to look. And I followed his advice, I looked again at the threads I've been reading for almost 2 weeks now.
I think part of the problem is that I'm coming from LED lights, and there they are specific about which batteries can be used with which lights. Maybe with Incans there's more leeway, just so long as you don't go too high and burn out the bulb.
Lumens Factory made it easy: I could see right away what module to get, the IMR-9. So I ordered it a couple of days ago.
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mdocod
Flashaholic
Hi OrlandoLights,
I don't think there is really a list anywhere of all the T1.5 bulbs you could use..
Matching bulbs to batteries is tricky business sometime, the world of LEDs can be simpler in many ways because most lights are either boost or buck regulated (a few are boost/buck) so you usually have a pretty wide selection of battery options available.
With bulbs, what you are trying to do, is match a bulb to a power source, such that it will be driven hard, without being really un-reliable. Most of the super powerful mag-mods that are built for sheer enjoyment are targeting ~5 hours bulb life give or take. For most configurations in a tactical light, you'll want to shoot for ~10-40 hours estimated bulb life...
There's a lot of in-depth stuff to consider to make this happen, but I'll try to simplify. You are using a pair of 3.7V cells, so you are looking for a bulb that runs with ~10-40 hours bulb life at ~7.4V. Consider that some bulbs run at higher current, and therefor will have a lower operating voltage on a particular cell configuration as a result of voltage sag of the cells. Also consider, that with a higher life rating on a bulb, it's going to require more voltage than the rated voltage to drive it within that ideal range. So a 6V bulb rated ~100 hours is usually a pretty good candidate to drive to ~7.4V, it results in a new target bulb life around 10 hours and a nice bright white output. A 6V 2000 hour bulb on the other hand, would re-rate to ~200 hours on a 7.4V battery, and would not really be all that impressive or worth running in this configuration.
If you read the li-ion/incan guide, then you are likely aware that CR123s are not 3V cells when loaded, that most "9V" type tactical lamp assemblies are actually ~7.5V bulbs (give or take). (FYI your blown P60 was a ~5V bulb). With that in mind, one option is to run the bulb from a streamlight TL-3. It will give you a ~25+ minutes runtime and probably produce a pretty nice beam. Won't be a super-screamer as far as output goes, it's about the same as an SR-9 or P90 or G90 etc etc.
As already mentioned, the 1794 is certainly an option, and is probably going to be the brightest bulb that can be run in a D26 application. It's rated 630 bulb lumen at 7V, it's a real screamer.
Finding a large selection of T-1.5 bulbs out there can be tough. Here's the few from carley (that I can think of) that would work for your application:
Carley lamp ideas for 2xIMR16340 cells:
#928, 7.1V, 25 hour: ~200 lumen diminishing to ~100 lumen in ~25 minutes.
#819, 7.5V, 20 hour: ~160 lumen diminishing to ~90 lumen in ~40 minutes.
I don't think there is really a list anywhere of all the T1.5 bulbs you could use..
Matching bulbs to batteries is tricky business sometime, the world of LEDs can be simpler in many ways because most lights are either boost or buck regulated (a few are boost/buck) so you usually have a pretty wide selection of battery options available.
With bulbs, what you are trying to do, is match a bulb to a power source, such that it will be driven hard, without being really un-reliable. Most of the super powerful mag-mods that are built for sheer enjoyment are targeting ~5 hours bulb life give or take. For most configurations in a tactical light, you'll want to shoot for ~10-40 hours estimated bulb life...
There's a lot of in-depth stuff to consider to make this happen, but I'll try to simplify. You are using a pair of 3.7V cells, so you are looking for a bulb that runs with ~10-40 hours bulb life at ~7.4V. Consider that some bulbs run at higher current, and therefor will have a lower operating voltage on a particular cell configuration as a result of voltage sag of the cells. Also consider, that with a higher life rating on a bulb, it's going to require more voltage than the rated voltage to drive it within that ideal range. So a 6V bulb rated ~100 hours is usually a pretty good candidate to drive to ~7.4V, it results in a new target bulb life around 10 hours and a nice bright white output. A 6V 2000 hour bulb on the other hand, would re-rate to ~200 hours on a 7.4V battery, and would not really be all that impressive or worth running in this configuration.
If you read the li-ion/incan guide, then you are likely aware that CR123s are not 3V cells when loaded, that most "9V" type tactical lamp assemblies are actually ~7.5V bulbs (give or take). (FYI your blown P60 was a ~5V bulb). With that in mind, one option is to run the bulb from a streamlight TL-3. It will give you a ~25+ minutes runtime and probably produce a pretty nice beam. Won't be a super-screamer as far as output goes, it's about the same as an SR-9 or P90 or G90 etc etc.
As already mentioned, the 1794 is certainly an option, and is probably going to be the brightest bulb that can be run in a D26 application. It's rated 630 bulb lumen at 7V, it's a real screamer.
Finding a large selection of T-1.5 bulbs out there can be tough. Here's the few from carley (that I can think of) that would work for your application:
Carley lamp ideas for 2xIMR16340 cells:
#928, 7.1V, 25 hour: ~200 lumen diminishing to ~100 lumen in ~25 minutes.
#819, 7.5V, 20 hour: ~160 lumen diminishing to ~90 lumen in ~40 minutes.
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