Incan vs LED?

bridgman

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OK, that seems to be an M951 from the early/mid 2000's, more specifically an "M951 KIT02 WeaponLight Kit".

General consensus on the internet is that it should take P60/P61 lamp modules, which should give you both the option for an LED drop-in upgrade or a brighter incandescent module.

The stock P60 bulb gives ~65 lumens while the optional P61 bulb gives ~120 lumens. You can go right up to ~380 lumens in that chassis (LumensFactory EO-9 plus two 3.7v rechargable RCR123's) but I am currently running a 320 lumen HO-9 since (a) it seems bright enough and (b) it gives better runtime than the EO-9.

Lumens Factory also offers HO-6 and EO-6 bulbs to use with 6V from your existing 123 batteries, offering 160 lumens / 50 minutes and 200 lumens / 40 minutes respectively:

https://www.lumensfactory.com/en/product.php?cid=19 (that link is just the 6 volt options)

With LED you can go all the way up to stupid-bright (1500+ lumens) and have the choice of either full power only or multiple brightness levels, but you lose the ability to use IR.

Malkoff recommends the use of a fitting ring when using their drop-ins - I don't know but my guess is that you probably want something like that with all LED drop-ins... Malkoff always seems to go an extra step in terms of engineering:


Anyways, a good next step IMO would be to remove the IR filter then unscrew the bezel at the front so you can confirm what kind of lamp is inside the head. Never hurts to pull and check the batteries for leakage as well, although I have never had 123 cells leak on me.
 
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fivemega

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For more option and higher power incand P60/61 and P90/91 type of modules please see here and here.
They are not available now but lucky people may find one by posting WTB
 
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Flashgordon1776

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OK, that seems to be an M951 from the early/mid 2000's, more specifically an "M951 KIT02 WeaponLight Kit".

General consensus on the internet is that it should take P60/P61 lamp modules, which should give you both the option for an LED drop-in upgrade or a brighter incandescent module.

The stock P60 bulb gives ~65 lumens while the optional P61 bulb gives ~120 lumens. You can go right up to ~380 lumens in that chassis (LumensFactory EO-9 plus two 3.7v rechargable RCR123's) but I am currently running a 320 lumen HO-9 since (a) it seems bright enough and (b) it gives better runtime than the EO-9.

Lumens Factory also offers HO-6 and EO-6 bulbs to use with 6V from your existing 123 batteries, offering 160 lumens / 50 minutes and 200 lumens / 40 minutes respectively:

https://www.lumensfactory.com/en/product.php?cid=19 (that link is just the 6 volt options)

With LED you can go all the way up to stupid-bright (1500+ lumens) and have the choice of either full power only or multiple brightness levels, but you lose the ability to use IR.

Malkoff recommends the use of a fitting ring when using their drop-ins - I don't know but my guess is that you probably want something like that with all LED drop-ins... Malkoff always seems to go an extra step in terms of engineering:


Anyways, a good next step IMO would be to remove the IR filter then unscrew the bezel at the front so you can confirm what kind of lamp is inside the head. Never hurts to pull and check the batteries for leakage as well, although I have never had 123 cells leak on me.
Hi thank you for all of that info! I would like to stay Incan and keep my 123 batts. Can I use the HO 9? Or is that 9 volt?
 

bridgman

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Hi thank you for all of that info! I would like to stay Incan and keep my 123 batts. Can I use the HO 9? Or is that 9 volt?
And should I use the fitting ring if staying Incan?
You would want to stay with the 6V options:


That said, there is a lot to be said for a single cell 16650 or similar along with something like an HO-4:


Almost the same output as an HO-6, with longer runtime plus rechargeable. If you picked up a couple of HO-6 bulbs (for use with 123 primaries) plus at least one HO-4 (for use with rechargeables) that would be a great start.
 

Flashgordon1776

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You would want to stay with the 6V options:


That said, there is a lot to be said for a single cell 16650 or similar along with something like an HO-4:


Almost the same output as an HO-6, with longer runtime plus rechargeable. If you picked up a couple of HO-6 bulbs (for use with 123 primaries) plus at least one HO-4 (for use with rechargeables) that would be a great start.
Got the HO6 with 50 min runtime. No extra bulbs tho. Might go back for the bulbs and ho4 and get rechargeables on amazon?
 

fivemega

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I would like to stay Incan and keep my 123 batts. Can I use the HO 9? Or is that 9 volt?
It is 3 cell (nominally 9 volt) and possible to use with one cell extender and 3 cells of 123
Same extender will also work with pair of 17500 rechargeable.
If you go with HO-4 then you will need single
16650 cell.
 
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Flashgordon1776

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It is 3 cell (nominally 9 volt) and possible to use with one cell extender and 3 cells of 123
Same extender will also work with pair of 17500 rechargeable.
If you go with HO-4 then you will need single
16650 cell.
Ok so this thing woke up! Used the ir lense in training and wow! That IR lens actually keeps accidental pressure pad light from escaping. Just put it on before training and wasn't used to the location. Wound up flashing my team right before entry 🙄
Lit up a long dark hallway like daylight. The Incan Light reflects off ceiling tiles very well Impressive intensity for sure.
 

bridgman

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That reminds me of a quick question - what changed in bulb technology between the Surefire P60/P61 bulbs and the LF XX-6 bulbs ? The LF bulbs are rated for roughly twice the lumen output at the same runtime.

Or maybe CR123 batteries have improved that much and the difference is "batteries then" vs "batteries now", ie the brighter LF bulbs use more power but battery improvements have kept the runtime relatively constant ?

I suppose the difference could just be more optimistic rating, but I still have an SF P60 bulb and the LFs definitely seem brighter.
 
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fivemega

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The LF bulbs are rated for roughly twice the lumen output at the same runtime.
LF bulbs are Xenon and most of Surefire bulbs are Halogen.
LF bulbs are rated at maximum voltage of batteries but Surefire bulbs are rated from begining to end of batteries. (Average voltage)
Voltage design of LF bulbs are slightly lower than Surefire bulbs. So they run slightly harder.
Current draw of LF bulbs are higher than Surefire bulbs.

Above statement is for bulbs to run with primary batteries.
 

bridgman

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Great answer - thanks !!

In the "interesting reading" department it turns out that many of the halogens are things that I have never heard of... although the ones that were used in bulbs seem familiar. Chlorine first, followed by iodine and bromine.
 

Flashgordon1776

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Agree - the HO-6 seems like a great choice. I was including it in the "high output bulb" group since it has something like twice the output of the stock bulb. I prefer the H bulbs myself as well.
This flashlight thing kinda growing on me. LED VS INCAN. Then runtime vs power. Big heavy vs small light etc. sooo many considerations.
 
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