Induction lamps allready or not anymore??

Juctuc

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
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54
GE Genura was made in early 1990, and after that silence with those. It seems to me that these induction lamps are coming again. Osram has DURA-One A19, but i think they have overpriced it.

I have been reading about these lights for a while, and it seems to be that it could be good solution, specially when compare to "normal" CFL. No harm if lots of on/off-use etc.

But anyway...does anyone have any experience of these lights?
 
Not with any of the more recent systems, but I can vouch for the fact that the Philips QL system is a lovely bit of engineering, and works very well. I've got a Philps QL85 here, which I use occasionally when I need a lot of light.

Let down by a horrendous system price though, and somewhat bulky lamp design.

Induction lighting is well and truly here as far as some industrial applications are concerned (Fully sealed systems for the likes of oil and gas production plants and oil rigs for one - IMT lighting produce totally sealed fixtures with a ten year warranty), I imagine the system costs are the main thing keeping them from getting a foothold in the domestic market at the moment.

The technology is here, the technology works very well, but it does come with a hefty pricetag at the moment.
 
I've seen induction lighting up close at an Electric West convention years ago. One ballast and bulb cost two or three hundred dollars. They work similar to a fluorescent bulb since they both light up a phosphor coating. Fluorescents light up the coating with U.V. light. Induction lighting uses microwaves. This works great for outdoor flood lighting, but will never be used for indoor or residential lighting because it causes a lot of R.F. interference. Basically, you wouldn't be able to use a T.V. or radio and light your house at the same time. Los Angeles invested in some induction lighting for some freeway lighting simply because 50,000-60,000 hour bulb life meant reduced maintenance costs offset the cost of the bulbs and ballasts. There's no point of using it in a single family home.
 
I was at the Brea fire station and maintenance dept open house last week and the city showed some new streetlights they were testing out. One set used high intensity power-compact fluorescents and another was an induction unit. So I guess induction lighting is still around.

They installed two of power-compacts in front of the fire station and the induction unit is going in a residential area. Eventually, either of these will replace the existing high pressure sodium fixtures
 
Some pictures of Brea's trial run of the QL induction lighting system. These were installed in ordinary "cobra head" fixtures so you couldn't really tell the difference during the day but by night...


Induction2.jpg


Induction3.jpg


HPS for comparison
inductionHPS4.jpg


I adjusted the exposure on this one so it's closer to what it looks like to me in person.

Induction1.jpg


A look up into the light. The camera couldn't "see" it but when I looked, there was a Philips "QL" lamp in there.
induction5.jpg



They are on Greenleaf Drive if anyone's interested (nearby kids: "He's taking pictures of the light pole"):stupid:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...861&spn=0.007871,0.014591&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr
 
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Through a post on slickdeals.net I found a site, http://superbrightbulbs.com/product74ag.php, selling compact induction lamps. They claim 210kHz operating freq, so not microwave.
Wikipedia lists two different types of induction lamps: fluorescent induction and radio generated plasma lamps. It's apparent the bulb in the above URL is the former type.

Three things that I find attractive:
- instant strike
- 5% lumen depreciation at 2,000 hours
- price
The site's selling 23W for $30 and 40W for $50. I bought a few "for hobby reasons". In a few weeks I'll let you know if I like them or not.
 
The "genura" lamps made by GE are still sold in the UK, for 230/240 volt supply.
About ten years ago I installed about a hundred of them in a department store, most are still lit, after an estimated 50,000 hours use.
I remember that the colour seemed to vary a bit from one lamp to the next, though no one else noticed.
 
Rather than creating a new thread, I am ressurecting a 2008 thread, because it shows how little discussed. Why not discussed more? I guess price?

http://blog.shineretrofits.com/2012/01/04/1000-watt-metal-halide-or-high-pressure-sodium-vs-400w-watt-induction-pole-lighting/

http://www.shineretrofits.com/neptu...oebox-induction-fixture-10-year-warranty.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_lighting

http://www.mulelighting.com/lit/DYNaluxSPbro.pdf

I am wondering about the science, where this technology is headed, and when likely a 400 watt lamp/ballast will come down to a reasonable price (say $150). Looks like it would make an awesome work light.

Head to head against a high cri metal hadile would be interesting. http://www.venturelighting.com/naturalwhite/naturalwhite_faqs.html
 
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Rather than creating a new thread, I am ressurecting a 2008 thread, because it shows how little discussed. Why not discussed more? I guess price?

http://blog.shineretrofits.com/2012/01/04/1000-watt-metal-halide-or-high-pressure-sodium-vs-400w-watt-induction-pole-lighting/

http://www.shineretrofits.com/neptu...oebox-induction-fixture-10-year-warranty.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_lighting

http://www.mulelighting.com/lit/DYNaluxSPbro.pdf

I am wondering about the science, where this technology is headed, and when likely a 400 watt lamp/ballast will come down to a reasonable price (say $150). Looks like it would make an awesome work light.

Head to head against a high cri metal hadile would be interesting. http://www.venturelighting.com/naturalwhite/naturalwhite_faqs.html


While it is not a "dead" technology, it really does not have much of a future.

In fixture efficiency is about 70 lumens/watt at best which even so-so LEDs can accomplish today.

The huge source size makes optical control very difficult for anything but wide area lighting and hence may not be great for your work light.

If it was pushed more commercially 10 years ago it may have had an okay run, but realistically its not on the radar much anymore.

Too little, too late ....

Semiman
 
While it is not a "dead" technology, it really does not have much of a future.

In fixture efficiency is about 70 lumens/watt at best which even so-so LEDs can accomplish today.

The huge source size makes optical control very difficult for anything but wide area lighting and hence may not be great for your work light.

If it was pushed more commercially 10 years ago it may have had an okay run, but realistically its not on the radar much anymore.

Too little, too late ....

Semiman


Hmm. Why is not the price dropping then?

Yeah, in the low wattage area, I can see the induction light as being replaced by led. In the higher range, only if they refuse to budge on price. It just seems you could get a better deal than $600 for a 400 watt induction, if it were being passed up.

Taking a look at Mercury Vapor lights, I don't see their prices falling either. You would think you could pickup a 200 watt Mercury vapor ballast and bulb for $40, when you look at how outdated the technology. I can only draw the conclusion that most consumers do not do their homework, and are easy prey to overpriced, outmoded technologies.
 
Hmm. Why is not the price dropping then?

Yeah, in the low wattage area, I can see the induction light as being replaced by led. In the higher range, only if they refuse to budge on price. It just seems you could get a better deal than $600 for a 400 watt induction, if it were being passed up.

Taking a look at Mercury Vapor lights, I don't see their prices falling either. You would think you could pickup a 200 watt Mercury vapor ballast and bulb for $40, when you look at how outdated the technology. I can only draw the conclusion that most consumers do not do their homework, and are easy prey to overpriced, outmoded technologies.

Actually it is because the big customers that drive the market do do their homework.

Mercury vapour is a dead technology. Selling new fixtures is banned in a lot of areas.

Why is induction not dropping in price .... simple combination of complexity to manufacture, need for profit to stay in business, and lack of economies of scale.

Keep in mind, you are also pricing single units. That goes back to the economies of scale. Few suppliers, few channels, etc.


At the end of the day, it is the educated consumer who is not buying into induction.

Good metal halide lights are seeing 16-20000 hours to 70% output. Yes there is bulb failures in there. That metal halide starts at 100-110 lumens/watt at the bulb.

Induction fluorescent may be 50,000 hours to 70%, but the bulb starts at 85 lumens/watt.

There are lots and lots of claims of great savings in electricity from induction fluorescent, but it is rarely born out when compared to a good metal halide fixture and when a lighting analysis is done. Usually the claims are before/after shots. Well if you take metal halide bulbs at the end of their life in old fixtures that are dirty, reflector corroded, etc. you will see a lot more light from induction but it is hardly a good comparison.

For the most part, you are better off for interior lighting going with 40,000 hour (or more) linear fluorescent at 100 lumens/watt source if you are doing wide area lighting.

Now in terms of that smart consumer, a 400 watt light over 50,000 hours of use will consume $2,000 of electricity over its life which could be say 6-12+ years depending on whether 12/7 or 24/7.

Depending on the vendor, the claim compared to metal halide is 30-50% electricity savings (and depending on the technology). That equates to $600 - $1000 in electricity savings. Bulb replacement is a lift truck normally so not cheap which also must be taken into account.

Mercury vapor is 1/2 the efficiency of metal halid with even faster output depreciation. You get killed on electricity costs.

Semiman
 
Don't see much for the consumer/residential market now other than a couple Chinese lamps sold on various online sites under a variety of brand names (they all look the same). LED seems to have filled up this application

The main spread of Induction lighting I've seen in the last couple years is in street lighting as a replacement for the commonly used High Pressure Sodium. The City of Brea changed all their streetlights to induction back in the beginning of 2011 although they decided to go with Sylvania Icetron lamps in "New Jersey" style fixtures made by Irvine based US Lighting Tech vs the Philips QL system cobrahead retrofit that they tested in the trial.

Shortly afterward, Pomona to the north of me also followed suit but had their existing streetlights rebuilt by San Francisco based Tanko Lighting with EcoWatt brand induction components (works similar to the Philips QL system but uses an elliptical style bulb that is shaped similar to a conventional HID lamp). The fixtures still look the same as any other cobra head during the day but the diffused, cool-white light at night suggests otherwise.

Norco and Corona to the southeast of me have also gone induction using US lighting tech fixtures but they have a circular lamp in them vs the rectangular Sylvania Icetron.

Right now, I'm still on an island of orange high pressure sodium streetlights in an ocean of four surrounding areas with induction streetlights but judging by what our city officials and planners are up to, I may likely see LED streetlights instead.
 
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I have seen two lighting retrofits to induction fluorescent for streetlight and both were attrocious! I am not sure the city engineer who approved it, but obviously not a lighting person. I will take the yellow HPS any day. At least the lighting was consistent and somewhat even. Both induction retrofits I saw have nice bright spots under the lights, then dark between the poles.
 
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