Is LiIon Battery Tech Moving Forward? Or Moving to Extinction

[mercurialpissings]

Will we have better and more advanced LiIon cells in the future? Just seeing AW 10440 disappearing from the web doesn't seem promising.

When I was researching about the IMR 10440 batteries and chargers, it was interesting that the Vape world is getting a lot of search hits. Basically, if we have a good market for certain batteries, the manufacturers will continue to offer them and even research advanced ones for the future. Eneloop is a very good example. We will surely have better eneloops as time goes by.

I'm more concered for LiIons. Do we have a lot of electronic devices that will be utilizing these cells in the future? With the advent of internal non-romovable batteries (thanks to Apple:scowl, I'm quite concerened.

When we buy some lights, there are some models that are direct-drive and LiIon only while some lights can utilize all batteries. If the LiIon tech is not moving forward and may go extinct in the future, I might think twice on getting the LiIon-Only ones even though they're more efficient and have better lumen performance. Then again, that's what being a flashaholic is about I guess.

RIP AW 10440.

 

[thedoc007]

Moving forward. You have to remember that flashlights are a tiny niche market for lithium-ion. Panasonic is selling 18650s in serious bulk to the likes of Tesla, and virtually every laptop maker. That is why the 18650 is more advanced than most other sizes...they are simply focusing much more effort on that size. But as we have seen with the newer 16650 cells (as just one example) once the research is done, it will trickle down to other sizes eventually. Lithium-ion aren't going away any time soon, and there is a strong incentive to make them better.

 

[StorminMatt]

With current technology, Li-Ion seems to have hit a dead end. For years, 18650s were steadily increasing in capacity. But things have seemed to stall out at 3400, with even the 3600mAH NCR18650B AWOL these days. And the NCR18650B came out around 18 months ago. Other battery sizes (like 26650s and maybe eventually 32650s and/or 14500s) might increase in capacity as innovations first used in 18650s trickle down. But I don't see major improvements in Li-Ion batteries unless there is some MAJOR improvement in the technology.

As for Eneloops (and NiMH), much is happening there, either. Eneloops seem to gain more and more cycles every year. But this doesn't really amount to much, as it is quite untestable (you probably couldn't put your batteries through 2000 cycles if you tried). I don't see any increase in capacity, though. We still seem to be stuck with the same old 2000mAH for regular Eneloops and 2450 for Pros.

 

[StorminMatt]

...............and virtually every laptop maker. That is why the 18650 is more advanced than most other sizes...they are simply focusing much more effort on that size.

Not so much anymore. 18650-based laptop batteries are a dying breed. These days, people want thinner laptops that are more like tablets. And that means LiPos. Tesla currently seems like the big market for 18650s. But that's only until they find something better and move on.

 

[markr6]

I have the feeling any increases will be tiny, if any. It will be just another technology that is talked about for years and years without any big breakthrough. But we'll continue to get the "xxxx university researchers create 9000mAh cell the size of a xxxx" type headlines with absolutely no change to the market.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Yes, we're approaching the limit on capacity for all forms of chemical batteries. Lithium-ion had its run over the past 10 years, just as NiMH had its run in the 10 years before that.

We'll probably see improvements to longevity and durability of lithium-ion batteries, and there will likely be some small increase in capacity as well. But don't expect to get much more out of them, or any other chemical battery to exceed their performance by much.

What car manufacturers will concentrate on is faster charging batteries, and better performance and durability.

If we want to get more capacity, we'll have to invent a battery that uses something other than a chemical reaction. Perhaps a solid-state solution, like a super-duper super capacitor?

 

[dc38]

I wonder how much time we have until our lust for technological advancement turns this planet into a barren rock?

If there WAS life on other planets, let the evidence of their aqueous remnants stand as a warning to what our planet COULD become.

 

[SaraAB87]

Will we have better and more advanced LiIon cells in the future? Just seeing AW 10440 disappearing from the web doesn't seem promising.

When I was researching about the IMR 10440 batteries and chargers, it was interesting that the Vape world is getting a lot of search hits. Basically, if we have a good market for certain batteries, the manufacturers will continue to offer them and even research advanced ones for the future. Eneloop is a very good example. We will surely have better eneloops as time goes by.

I'm more concered for LiIons. Do we have a lot of electronic devices that will be utilizing these cells in the future? With the advent of internal non-romovable batteries (thanks to Apple:scowl, I'm quite concerened.

When we buy some lights, there are some models that are direct-drive and LiIon only while some lights can utilize all batteries. If the LiIon tech is not moving forward and may go extinct in the future, I might think twice on getting the LiIon-Only ones even though they're more efficient and have better lumen performance. Then again, that's what being a flashaholic is about I guess.

RIP AW 10440.

I am not sure about other models and other phones but the iPhone 4/4s 5, 5c and I assume the 5s as well can all have their batteries removed and changed in a few min if you know what you are doing. There are videos on YouTube for this and there is no soldering involved. I haven't personally tried it but many shops will do it for you here while you watch. There are people on eBay who will do it for a few dollars though I probably wouldn't trust them. If you can't do it yourself you probably have a friend that can (though I suspect a lot of people on here can handle this just fine). I also can't comment on the quality of replacement batteries.

 

[MidnightDistortions]

It's just a part of our evolution. But you would think that alkalines would be phased out but some people out there are having trouble of moving away from those. LiIon technology will not be extinct for quite awhile, there's some better LiIon battery types out there and others that man should never use due to so many bursting cells (usually the cheap kind) and eventually the market will standardize the safest more efficient LiIon battery. Just like how Eneloops made NiMH technology more storage friendly someone out there will make LiIon technology safer and longer lasting, at the very least they'll design them so you can charge them up and discharge them it won't reduce the cell life to a 100 cycles and keeping them at 40-80% and won't heat up as much reducing the life of the cells as well.

This was one of the main reasons i didn't go for LiIon technology in the first place, besides having the battery type widely available in which case the good old trusty AA is still around and will hopefully be around for many years to come. I also avoid the build in battery type if i can, or at the very least buy ones that are user serviceable.

 

[RetroTechie]

Not so much anymore. 18650-based laptop batteries are a dying breed. These days, people want thinner laptops that are more like tablets. And that means LiPos. Tesla currently seems like the big market for 18650s. But that's only until they find something better and move on.

You forgot cordless power tools. And e-bikes. Dunno how big each of those markets are compared to laptop, Tesla etc, but at least e-bikes are a growing market. Some of those battery packs may use other cells than 18650's, but for those that do: a lot of 18650's go into each and every pack. Expected useful life: 3 years? 5 years? That's a steady stream of 18650's up & coming. And probably quite a few other 'niche' uses we didn't think of just now.

What car manufacturers will concentrate on is faster charging batteries, and better performance and durability.

If we want to get more capacity, we'll have to invent a battery that uses something other than a chemical reaction. Perhaps a solid-state solution, like a super-duper super capacitor?

I'll take any of that, even if it comes at a cost of some capacity. We carry spare batteries when backup power sources aren't available, but also because it takes a long time to charge batteries. If you could re-charge a battery in 5 or 10 minutes, go someplace where you know you can plug in, then bringing an ultra-fast charger may be preferred over bringing a box of spare cells. Like do some work, plug in charger, eat a sandwich, continue work with freshly re-charged cells.

Solid state cells have the potential to be much safer since they can do without a flammable electrolyte. And perhaps higher capacity too, since building nano-scale solid structures can be more precisely controlled than the layer thickness & distribution of some electrolyte paste. Since those structures don't move around / don't dissolve (since there isn't a liquid electrolyte around to dissolve, or even space for the particles to move into), likely no problem if cells are deep-discharged. Like you said: more like a super-capacitor.

Of course this is all subject of ongoing research, what will make its way into products? Who knows...

 

[SemiMan]

Currently we are sitting at about 200wh/kg.

Using known lithium compounds, theoretical limit is between 5-20 times this.

So no, we are not at the limit yet, not even close.