Is upgrading a light as simple as putting in an new LED? I don't think so...

[Calina]

I see a lot of threads about improving a light by switching to a newer better LED bin but is it really that simple?

It seems to me that most of the time you end up with more light at all levels and to me that is wrong. For example if your light originally provided a low of 8 lumen, your mod is likely providing a new low of 12 or more lumen. This, most of the time, is not what I would want!

I do appreciate more light on the high level but I think the lower levels are better to be kept as they were and enjoy the longer runtime from the more efficient LED.

Unless the levels are programmable or they are more then the usual few levels, I feel a good mod would almost necessarily imply modification to the driver or a new driver all together.

What do you think?

 

[LukeA]

I'm sure more people would upgrade lights that way if it was at all practical.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

What do you think?

I think that's an excellent point. On some lights, where the actual output of the low mode is one of the benefits (e.g. the Gladius), an output-increasing mod could be unwelcome to some (but, of course, welcome to others, since a more powerful high is also nice). I've modded a few lights with new emitters, but those lights didn't have amazing low modes. I've Seouled an Argo HP, a Scorpion LED, and a Survivor LED. The Scorpion and Survivor LEDs have one and two output levels, respectively, and they're both on the high side. Modding these lights doesn't lose a great low mode, but it can increase runtime by making the low mode replace high more often, or just beef up the output. The Argo HP was a great Seoul candidate (IMO) because in addition to the low mode just being a battery-saver and not a super-low, the beam was pretty bad, with splotches and swirls. Seouling it has allowed me to use the low mode more often (when previously I might have used high in the same situation), and has also cleaned up the beam tremendously.

So, a new emitter CAN and often does upgrade a light, but not always.

 

[270winchester]

I see a lot of threads about improving a light by switching to a newer better LED bin but is it really that simple?

It seems to me that most of the time you end up with more light at all levels and to me that is wrong. For example if your light originally provided a low of 8 lumen, your mod is likely providing a new low of 12 or more lumen. This, most of the time, is not what I would want!

I do appreciate more light on the high level but I think the lower levels are better to be kept as they were and enjoy the longer runtime from the more efficient LED.

Unless the levels are programmable or they are more then the usual few levels, I feel a good mod would almost necessarily imply modification to the driver or a new driver all together.

What do you think?

not necessarily.

the difference between 8 lumen and 12 lumen is very, very small for human visual perception. But the difference between 60 and 120 is huge on max. The difference on low is not enough of a problem for me to not use the newer LEDs.

worst comes to worst you can solder an additional resistor to the tailcap or the circuit to make the low lower.
If your eyes can perceive the difference on low that much I applaud your sensitive vision.

 

[yellow]

I dont get the point
Sure I have modded several lights with new led, reflector, heatsink, driver and battery, but I am doing this for years now.

The persons that think of "emitter swap" just start to mod
(or are like me and do it to lights where time + ease is the main point)

Doing modifications to original driver is a very high level of modding.
Adding another driver + sink (original sinks are bad usually, as are original focusing devices and ...) adds cost, time and difficulty.

Give us an easy and cheap solution for emitter swap.

 

[wintermute]

Sometimes I put in new emitters just so I have one with a color tint I like. Some like warmer tints - I enjoy the cooler ones. So if I can get my hands on a WC Cree or SX0 SSC, that may get put in so the LED light is more pleasing to my own eye. Frequently, I go much beyond this as well...i.e. new drivers, reflectors, lenses, etc. - but sometimes an emitter swap is all it takes to make me love my light so much more (i.e. my Cree WC Q4 into my LxD).

 

[WadeF]

I do appreciate more light on the high level but I think the lower levels are better to be kept as they were and enjoy the longer runtime from the more efficient LED.

You do realize that if you low went from 8 to 12 lumens, or whatever, by placing in a more efficent LED, that you're gaining light, but the drain on the battery stays exactly the same? You get more light and the same run times, which for some people is great. However, for some people the increase in light maybe too much, but we'll have to wait for a flashlight company, unless you install a new circuit yourself, to come out with a new light that runs the new LED at an even lower current to keep the lumens down, which would result in longer run times compared to the older bin LED at the same brightness.

 

[Calina]

You do realize that if you low went from 8 to 12 lumens, or whatever, by placing in a more efficent LED, that you're gaining light, but the drain on the battery stays exactly the same? You get more light and the same run times, which for some people is great. However, for some people the increase in light maybe too much, but we'll have to wait for a flashlight company, unless you install a new circuit yourself, to come out with a new light that runs the new LED at an even lower current to keep the lumens down, which would result in longer run times compared to the older bin LED at the same brightness.

Unfortunately it seems like flashlight companies tend to upgrade the LEDs as they become available but don't always modify the drivers at the same time.

 

[Daekar]

Unfortunately it seems like flashlight companies tend to upgrade the LEDs as they become available but don't always modify the drivers at the same time.

That makes sense - they do it that way for the same reason CPFers do it - it's easier. Besides, once you reach a certain amount of runtime, most people would rather have more light for the same amount of time as opposed to the same light for longer.

I think that it is application-specific, really. For my MRV, I want maximum-output - the runtime is already sufficient for its assigned task. In this case, an emitter-swap makes perfect sense. For an EDC light, the line is a bit more fuzzy, as it is with headlamps. It's a personal preference thing. My perfect EDC light would have a low setting of like 2-3 lumens, medium of 20, and high of eh... 80-100 or so... all in a floody/throwy combination beam pattern. Anything brighter than that would be a waste, really, so as LED bins get better the best thing would be to reduce current to maintain output levels. If I have target runtimes, I could get the same runtime with less battery - thus a smaller light. New emitters ARE good for swapping, but to really take advantage of their more practical aspects requires the full package.

 

[SmUk]

i ruined my gladius, when i tried to replace the luxIII with a ssc p4


i think, its a good thing, but only if you know how to do that ...

 

[wintermute]

i ruined my gladius, when i tried to replace the luxIII with a ssc p4


i think, its a good thing, but only if you know how to do that ...

How exactly did you ruin it - surely it is salvageable. I'm sure someone can help you fix it. PM me if you want to keep it out of the forums - but I would be more then happy to help.

 

[WadeF]

Unfortunately it seems like flashlight companies tend to upgrade the LEDs as they become available but don't always modify the drivers at the same time.

I hear you, but if we look at Fenix and their Q2 lights, they were special editions, and not their standard model, so it wouldn't make sense for them to come up with a whole new circuit just for a special run of lights. I would think once they go full production with a more efficent LED they will re-evaluate the low setting and if needed, reduce the power to keep the low, LOW.

 

[uk_caver]

That makes sense - they do it that way for the same reason CPFers do it - it's easier. Besides, once you reach a certain amount of runtime, most people would rather have more light for the same amount of time as opposed to the same light for longer.
I think that it is application-specific, really...

Quite - each case can have different reasons for choices made.
In my case, for my underground light, I was running at ~350mA/120mA/30mA when I was using 30-45lm Luxeons. The low setting wasn't bright, (4 lumens?) but was adequate to get out of a cave on when dark-adapted, and would give ~200 hours on one battery pack.
When upgrading to Crees/SSCs, I took the opportunity to drop the two upper power levels by ~20% or so, still ending up with roughly twice the light, but with improved runtime. For the low setting, extending runtime from a continuous week to a continuous fortnight didn't seem like any real gain, and the previous brightness was never really excessive, so I didn't change it, giving me a low setting that is no more costly, but is more usable.

If LEDs were available twice the efficiency of current ones, I might well then drop the low power level (to avoid the low setting getting too bright), and drop the higher levels somewhat (for reasons of extending runtime, not needing much extra light, and trying to maintain reasonable steps between levels).

 

[Illum]

upgrading a light isn't necessarily trying to make it brighter, but modification of output to suit YOUR needs. In the past there has been a few threads balancing the emphasis of modification to maximize runtime or output.


to answer your title, yes...say the MagLED for example. Aside from the members of the forum, I doubt the general public would know how to disassemble...say a maglite and built it from ground up into an HID, they would most likely want something thats as simple as changing the bulb, which the demand for upgrades bumps the manufacturers supply of magLEDs.

 

[FlashKat]

I prefer just dropping in a brighter LED such as a Edison Opto which gave me a brighter low & high with more runtime all around. A brighter low allows me to use my flashlight longer since do not have to have it on high to see adequately. Plus boring out the tube and running an 18650 battery makes it even better.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

When I saw the thread title I thought BLASPHEME!

It is one heck of an upgrade to put a M*gled where a PR Incandescent bulb was!

Or an SMJled over the incan bulb in a 2AA light!

I wouldn't know about multi-level lights as I only have 5MM or .5W LEDs with more than one level.

 

[Calina]

When I saw the thread title I thought BLASPHEME!

It is one heck of an upgrade to put a M*gled where a PR Incandescent bulb was!

Or an SMJled over the incan bulb in a 2AA light!

I wouldn't know about multi-level lights as I only have 5MM or .5W LEDs with more than one level.

Please forgive me, for I have sinned! :devil:

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Go forth and sin no more!

How could you know?

 

[chesterqw]

some times just upgrading the LED works as the old led may not be of a good bin.

but if it was a good bin, changing it with the most premium bin will be the only thing possible.

changing the driver is most of the time PITA as the solder holding the driver to the heat-sink won't melt as well, it is heat-sinked.(tried a higher wattage soldering gun and end up making my UF C2 head real hot)