JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and more!

selfbuilt

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Selfbuilt: have you done a review of the ITP SA2; I'm hanging on the fence between these 2 lights.
BA20: brighter, simpler operation.
ITP SA2: low/med/high [infinite mode] output, yet less lumens on high.
Yes, but my summary tables are a little different (wasn't using ANSI FL-1 then). The ITP SA2 review shows initial activation values for throw and output.
 

Marc999

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I just ordered a couple lights from Shiningbeam. BA20 and ITP A3 EOS [both xp-g r5 varieties]. I didn't like the idea of paying a buck a battery for cr123's when I have plenty of eneloops at the ready. Perhaps some day i'll venture into the lithium flashlight world.
 

_Event_Horizon_

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I want to thank you "selfbuilt" for all your great reviews. I'm a new member but not new to the forums since I've just been a lurker with the limited amount of time I've had with work schedule. But your reviews have helped me on deciding which torches would be ideal for me with the time I've had to sneak onto here.
This review is no exception and the BC10 has been one of my best investment in a lower budget light. Keep up the great work. I'm sure there's plenty of members, and non-members, on here who appreciates it just as much but hasn't thanked you for your efforts. :thumbsup:
 

Marc999

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Yes, but my summary tables are a little different (wasn't using ANSI FL-1 then). The ITP SA2 review shows initial activation values for throw and output.

Hi Selfbuilt, I noticed you keep a fan running when testing runtimes of hi modes in these lights. For my BA20 would I possibly do damage if kept on high mode for over an hour?

Marc
 

selfbuilt

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I want to thank you "selfbuilt" for all your great reviews.
Appreciate the support and generous comments. I'm glad you've found the reviews helpful. I strive to provide objective test data to help people in their decision making. :)

Hi Selfbuilt, I noticed you keep a fan running when testing runtimes of hi modes in these lights. For my BA20 would I possibly do damage if kept on high mode for over an hour?
Should probably be alright - but if left unattended during that time, keep in mind it will be quite hot when you go to pick it up. I typically recommend you you don't run lights that long without some sort of cooling.

I use a cooling fan for a number of reasons (i.e. safety during testing, increased consistency in relation to variation in ambient room temperature, simulation of hand-holding, etc.). In fact, a fan cools better than hand-holding (where your own circulatory system provides a mechanism to wick away heat from the light). There's an argument to be made for doing runtimes without cooling. But my goal is really to provide as consistent a testing regimen as possible, and one that is feasible for me from a practical standpoint.
 

Marc999

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Should probably be alright - but if left unattended during that time, keep in mind it will be quite hot when you go to pick it up. I typically recommend you you don't run lights that long without some sort of cooling.

I use a cooling fan for a number of reasons (i.e. safety during testing, increased consistency in relation to variation in ambient room temperature, simulation of hand-holding, etc.). In fact, a fan cools better than hand-holding (where your own circulatory system provides a mechanism to wick away heat from the light). There's an argument to be made for doing runtimes without cooling. But my goal is really to provide as consistent a testing regimen as possible, and one that is feasible for me from a practical standpoint.

Thanks for the feedback, your review convinced me to try out a BA20. I should be receiving one in a few days, unless they're playing with it at the U.S./Canada border. I just wanted to know if I attach it to my mountain bike and run it on high for extended periods if I would melt / fry the circuitry before the batteries run out. I'll just judge by feel.

Marc
 

selfbuilt

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I just wanted to know if I attach it to my mountain bike and run it on high for extended periods if I would melt / fry the circuitry before the batteries run out. I'll just judge by feel.
Ah, that should be fine - the air flow while moving on the bike will do as well (or better) than hand-holding. I doubt you'd have any problems.
 

infinite

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I am not surprised - the BC10 is driven too hard on 3.7V Li-ion to take regular protected RCRs. As I warn in my review, you should only use IMR cells in the BC10 (with standard caveat to be careful not to run them down, as they don't have protection circuits). I don't know what the flashing refers to, as mine didn't do that.

Simply put, IMO, the maximum safe discharge for a regular Li-ion is only 2C (i.e. 30 mins). It was clear to me from the output that this would drain a regular RCR too quickly, which is why I didn't test on standard protected RCRs. But I am not surprised at the result - although I note that 12 mins translates into 5C, which GREATLY exceeds what a standard Li-ion can handle. This will damage the cell. I have just updated the review with an additional warning now that someone has measured it.

As always, I recommend folks consult with the battery experts in the "Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included" sub-forum for more info.

Hi selfbuilt, many great thanks for your advice and reply. I don't really understand how you translate it into 5C? I did another test running the BC10 at low mode brightness with RCR123 and it managed to last 55mins on the stop watch. It felt pretty hot to touch, and I was wondering if it would cause any damage to the led chip? And lastly ICR battery do not have protected circuit so if I deplete it completely the voltage will drop to 0V. Why would most people recommend the battery to be thrown away? Is it because the battery cant hold any more charge well?
 

selfbuilt

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Hi selfbuilt, many great thanks for your advice and reply. I don't really understand how you translate it into 5C?
By using a very simple metric of working back from time. For a 750mAh battery (as many RCRs are rated), a 1C discharge rate would mean that the cell provides a current of 750mA for one hour (*under ideal conditions*). 2C discharge would mean the cell would deliver 1500mA over 30 minutes, and so on (i.e. 5C would be 3750mA for 12 mins). Of course, to actually determine C, you would normally use a power supply to discharge the cell at a set current.

There are a lot of caveats here. First off, rated capacity of cells is rarely accurate (e.g. AW protected 14500 consistent have 25-30% greater capacity that AW protected RCR in my testing- despite both being rated at 750mAh). Moreover, discharge rates are not linear over time (i.e., cells don't give up energy linearly). Also, in reality, internal resistance turns some of the energy into heat (and thus lowers the resulting capacity as you raise the discharge rate).

Since I can directly measure none of this, I simply go by the simple rule-of-thumb based on runtime - if it takes less than 30 mins to discharge the cell, we likely talking >2C (which is my max comfort zone). Below 20 mins (i.e. >3C estimate), I am very uncomfortable.

There's a good explanation of C-rate at battery university.

I did another test running the BC10 at low mode brightness with RCR123 and it managed to last 55mins on the stop watch. It felt pretty hot to touch, and I was wondering if it would cause any damage to the led chip? And lastly ICR battery do not have protected circuit so if I deplete it completely the voltage will drop to 0V. Why would most people recommend the battery to be thrown away? Is it because the battery cant hold any more charge well?
~1C discharge should be fine.

As for a fully drained Li-ion, it MUST be thrown away. For safety purposes, you should never run a cell down below ~2.7V for any sustained amount of time. You should not rely on protection circuits, as they typically trip at the low-mid 2V range (e.g. 2.4V). The reason for this is that under a heavy load, the voltage will drop rapidly once you reach ~3.2V or so, and will hit ~2.4V within seconds. But once the circuit trips and power is cut-off, voltage quickly recovers to >2.7V (i.e typically within a few secs). This likely won't be a problem occasionally (only spending a few secs below 2.7V), but repeated trips to the protection cut-off are not healthy in the long run.

The real danger with protection circuits is in lights that drop to a low moon mode as the battery nears exhaustion. In these cases, you could be running many hours at <2.7V before you ever reach the cut-off feature at ~2.4V. If you let that happen, the cell may never recover back to >2.7V (or it could take hours). Either way, that cell should be tossed, as its storage capacity is permanently damaged.

All this to say, the true danger is in unprotected cells. :caution: These were developed for high-power incadescent operation - where by time you noticed a drop in output, you werel still within a safety margin voltage for the cell. On modern circuit-controlled LED lights, output won't drop until you near that ~3.2V level - at which point it will drop to below 2V in a matter of seconds! The further it drops, the slower will be its recovery to minimum voltage levels (if at all).

The reason you have throw such cells away is not because they can't hold a charge well - it is because the cells become unstable and unpredictable during charging. A high-quality charger will hopefully recognize the low voltage, and refuse to charge. Most chargers (which frankly have charging rates too high for low-capacity RCRs anyway - but that's another matter) will blithely go ahead and hit with a lot of juice. You run the risk of a catastrophic failure during charging (i.e. a fire erupting in the charger!).

The relative risk of that may be low, but it's worth remembering the differing safety profiles of primary lithium cells and rechargeable Li-ion. For primary lithium, your greatest risk is under a current discharge (especially in multi-cell setups where differences in capacity could lead to reverse charging are potentially "venting with flame"). For Li-ions, your greatest risk is when under a current charge, especially if the battery has been damaged by a sustained <2.7V stay.

This is why it's a good idea to invest in a DMM if you plan to use Li-ions. You should always check the resting voltage level of your cells before plunking them in a charger.

Many of the experts in the batteries subforum can explain all this better than I, so I suggest you check that forum out.
 
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swan

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Thanks selfbuilt, i like the way you do your tests and judge most lights based on your reviews.I bought the bc10 and am impressed with the output,build and simplicity.The light out put truly defies it size just using a normal cr123. One thing i noticed when the light started to run low was the slightest flicker [just noticeable] not flash as battery finally went flat.I usually grab my rrt2 but not this week, the bc10 has been first to hand.
 

MichaelW

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Sorry, no plans to. I am trying to limit the number of samples I test from any given series (e.g. same with the Klarus, etc). Hard to find the time with all the requests I get.

Does that mean you are going to test the Klarus new 'P' series: P1A, P2A, P1C
 

1anrm

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Thanks Selfbuilt for this review made me get a BA10 since I like my EDC in AA format. I added a ring in between the tail cap and the body of the light now I can carry this light bezel down. Yay!

IMG_7894.jpg
 

siuba

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

really helpful test, i just bought bc10 i want to try 16340 battery, now i can give up :huh:
 

konstantinos

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Can I use this Ultrafire 3.6V 880mAh LC 16340 Protected CR123A Battery in the bc 10?:confused: Thanks
 
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konstantinos

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Oups sorry, I didn’t know that i must not use e-shop links. I ordered the bc-10 today and i have 4 of this batteries. Anybody help :rolleyes:
 

Quality

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Does anybody know if I could use an AA dummy cell and a 14500 in a Jetbeam ba20? I feel like it should work but I don't know and I can't find any information on it.
 

ROVER

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

Does anybody know if I could use an AA dummy cell and a 14500 in a Jetbeam ba20? I feel like it should work but I don't know and I can't find any information on it.

If manufacturers make a circuit which will boost and buck, they usually are proud to advertise it as a feature. Given the other lights in the series, and Selfbuilt's warning about the dangerously high discharge rate using RCRs, it's quite possible they share a common boost circuit with a 1.5-3 volt input, which goes to direct drive when input voltage exceeds Vf.
 

eh123456

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I have been using it in my BC 10 with no problem, but it gets quite hot quickly.

Can I use this Ultrafire 3.6V 880mAh LC 16340 Protected CR123A Battery in the bc 10?:confused: Thanks
 

DM51

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

@ ryanc420: in your attempt to gain validation, you made these posts:

ryanc420 said:
post number 1
ryanc420 said:
post number 2
ryanc420 said:
post number 3

They have not been approved. Posts need to demonstrate that you are not of robotic origin and have something positive to contribute.
 

deklan

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Re: JetBeam Backup Series (XP-G R5) BC10 & BA20 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, and mor

I'm curious - has anyone tried using 14500 Li Ion batteries in a BA20? Will it cook the LED? Thanks
 

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