Kriss Vector 45ACP Submachine gun at SHOT 2012

[StuGatz]

Although this occasion was the first time I have had access (in any form) to the Kriss Vector 45ACP Sub-machine gun it handled quite well. There were a number of people waiting to handle them so my time was very limited. The idea of shooting the "pistol" version with one hand by choice was not very suitable but made the point of weight/function. The pieces fired were very controllable even with the cyclic rate of about 800-1000 rounds per minute.

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[StarHalo]

Fun stuff, the future of close quarters weapons; I've posted about the Vector before but it didn't get much attention, I still don't think it gets the attention it deserves..

 

[dss_777]

What's the advantage of a pistol caliber carbine, compared to say a short-barrelled rifle like the AR?

 

[StarHalo]

The Vector is for close-quarters, the same thing you'd use a compact AR for, so oversized/long-distance rifle ammo isn't really necessary; add in the compact slide design, a higher rate of fire than a Tommy gun, and every single round will go completely through a car, and you've got one seriously terrifying little weapon..

 

[dss_777]

It does look like a fun gun... OTOH, it also looks to me like you end up with a big, heavy pistol, firing pistol caliber ammo, at pistol velocities, and suitable only for pistol distances. You have increased risk of over-penetrating with .45 vs. 5.45, for example, but if the fight goes outside you lose effective range and ballistic performance.

There's a reason LE and .mil are moving away from sub-guns, even in the entry weapon role...

 

[StarHalo]

It's big only compared to a pistol; at just over five pounds it's closer to airsoft gun mass. The effective range is ~100 meters, but because of the trick slide you get maybe 2 degrees of muzzle rise and virtually no recoil - that means unusually tight groupings within that range and the ability to engage multiple targets at speeds that wouldn't be reasonable with another gun. All with .45 takedown ability in a package that fits inside your coat..

 

[dss_777]

Still, it's just a bigger, better recoiling pistol. Looks like a ton of fun, but I just can't see the incremental benefits over a Glock 21 being worth the added weight and size. No doubt there are specific situations where it might be useful, but that's not my area of expertise at all. Not in the least.

You do have to wonder why LE and .mil are mostly employing short-barreled rifles now, though, don't you?

External ballistics and terminal performance of the 1000fps .45 round is never going to be as effective as a 2800fps 5.56mm bullet, ever. The .45 is just not the laser-beam pill-of-death we would like it to be.

 

[StarHalo]

But soldiers don't like the 5.56 round, it has a nasty habit of merely passing through the target without taking it down. The 7.62 is preferred (hence the return of the M14), but only larger rifles support it, which is not ideal for urban/door-to-door combat. A larger caliber in a smaller package is what the modern professional wants, that's where the Vector comes in..

 

[dss_777]

The 5.56 round "passing through" is urban myth, and LOTS of soldiers have been very pleased with it in the last 10 years or so, fwiw. It helps to be able to hit your target.

Regardless, if that's your Kriss, enjoy the heck out of it!